Cajun Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Why do people fail to see the connection that sometimes winning trophies isn't the only criteria of a good manager? What did Shearer win in his career? Does the fact that someone like Cygan or O'Shea have probably won more mean they are better players? We are talking about managers here not players Why do people fail to see the connection that sometimes winning trophies isn't the only criteria of a good manager? If you went by trophies, Souness would be in the same class as O'Neill. SBR would have been a complete failure at Newcastle.... He won the Uefa cup and the FA cup with Ipswich.Also he won the European Cup Winners' Cup with Barca That is good achievement imo and thats not all of his trophies won So Allardyce should be expected to win trophies even though he is at a small club with one of the smallest budgets in the league? SBR won nothing here though, if the mark of a good manager is winning trophies then he must have failed during his time as Newcastle manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamesD Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 NUFC06, would you rather we won the carling cup, or would you like to see the club steadily progress up the table? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC06 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Why do people fail to see the connection that sometimes winning trophies isn't the only criteria of a good manager? What did Shearer win in his career? Does the fact that someone like Cygan or O'Shea have probably won more mean they are better players? We are talking about managers here not players Why do people fail to see the connection that sometimes winning trophies isn't the only criteria of a good manager? If you went by trophies, Souness would be in the same class as O'Neill. SBR would have been a complete failure at Newcastle.... He won the Uefa cup and the FA cup with Ipswich.Also he won the European Cup Winners' Cup with Barca That is good achievement imo and thats not all of his trophies won So Allardyce should be expected to win trophies even though he is at a small club with one of the smallest budgets in the league? SBR won nothing here though, if the mark of a good manager is winning trophies then he must have failed during his time as Newcastle manager. The point of this argument that started IS wining trophies the most important thing about appointing a manager. No but if some manager has won trophies at every club he managed,especially wining the Uefa cup with anonymous club and also reaching the final of the Champions league with also not so famous club like Benfica,then this manager must be good.His track record is there. The other manager(Allardyce)has won nothing so far.Of course that doesnt make him bad manager but he still has alot to prove until he reached the achievements Ericksson have dont he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC06 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 NUFC06, would you rather we won the carling cup, or would you like to see the club steadily progress up the table? If the manager is good we will play good(wining) football,we will progress up the table and with some good luck we might win something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Why do people fail to see the connection that sometimes winning trophies isn't the only criteria of a good manager? What did Shearer win in his career? Does the fact that someone like Cygan or O'Shea have probably won more mean they are better players? We are talking about managers here not players Why do people fail to see the connection that sometimes winning trophies isn't the only criteria of a good manager? If you went by trophies, Souness would be in the same class as O'Neill. SBR would have been a complete failure at Newcastle.... He won the Uefa cup and the FA cup with Ipswich.Also he won the European Cup Winners' Cup with Barca That is good achievement imo and thats not all of his trophies won So Allardyce should be expected to win trophies even though he is at a small club with one of the smallest budgets in the league? SBR won nothing here though, if the mark of a good manager is winning trophies then he must have failed during his time as Newcastle manager. The point of this argument that started IS wining trophies the most important thing about appointing a manager. No but if some manager has won trophies at every club he managed,especially wining the Uefa cup with anonymous club and also reaching the final of the Champions league with also not so famous club like Benfica,then this manager must be good.His track record is there. The other manager(Allardyce)has won nothing so far.Of course that doesnt make him bad manager but he still has alot to prove until he reached the achievements Ericksson have dont he? lol your suggesting SGE. dont you think we have had enought duff overrated managers... who DID have some success, but when a big job came about were fucking woeful. seriously no one .. especially now.. should want SGE, the guy is looking for a last pay cheque, he has the best national side in the world imo, but couldnt make simple decisions ie: drop beckham, lampard & gerrard cant play together YET consisted with playing them!!! he also has the WORST negative tactics ever, i only saw one good england game to watch and that was Turkey game in his WHOLE england tenure. go figure. SAM is the man. right time, right place and affordable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 This "Aye,because Allardyce has won so many trophies in his career and has reached so many finals in his career. Great." to me sounds like you are judging him on not winning trophies. Bit harsh imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC06 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 This "Aye,because Allardyce has won so many trophies in his career and has reached so many finals in his career. Great." to me sounds like you are judging him on not winning trophies. Bit harsh imo. You are right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil K Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 come back when you looked at liverpool transfer dealings at liverpool then consider .. A: he is france, taking over a superb le guen team. which he is also on the way to ruin. SAM Lyon are something like 15 or more points clear at the top of their league. Thats on their way to ruin ? Jesus - I wish Newcastle were in a similar state of ruin ! This "Aye,because Allardyce has won so many trophies in his career and has reached so many finals in his career. Great." to me sounds like you are judging him on not winning trophies. Bit harsh imo. You are right. No, both wrong. How do you judge success ? Loudest mouth ? Most £££ syphoned off transfers ? Or trophies (also goes by the name "success" - a word we haven't a clue about, hence don't recognize it, and are drawn to those we are familiar with - the NON-successful) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC06 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Why do people fail to see the connection that sometimes winning trophies isn't the only criteria of a good manager? What did Shearer win in his career? Does the fact that someone like Cygan or O'Shea have probably won more mean they are better players? We are talking about managers here not players Why do people fail to see the connection that sometimes winning trophies isn't the only criteria of a good manager? If you went by trophies, Souness would be in the same class as O'Neill. SBR would have been a complete failure at Newcastle.... He won the Uefa cup and the FA cup with Ipswich.Also he won the European Cup Winners' Cup with Barca That is good achievement imo and thats not all of his trophies won So Allardyce should be expected to win trophies even though he is at a small club with one of the smallest budgets in the league? SBR won nothing here though, if the mark of a good manager is winning trophies then he must have failed during his time as Newcastle manager. The point of this argument that started IS wining trophies the most important thing about appointing a manager. No but if some manager has won trophies at every club he managed,especially wining the Uefa cup with anonymous club and also reaching the final of the Champions league with also not so famous club like Benfica,then this manager must be good.His track record is there. The other manager(Allardyce)has won nothing so far.Of course that doesnt make him bad manager but he still has alot to prove until he reached the achievements Ericksson have dont he? lol your suggesting SGE. dont you think we have had enought duff overrated managers... who DID have some success, but when a big job came about were fucking woeful. seriously no one .. especially now.. should want SGE, the guy is looking for a last pay cheque, he has the best national side in the world imo, but couldnt make simple decisions ie: drop beckham, lampard & gerrard cant play together YET consisted with playing them!!! he also has the WORST negative tactics ever, i only saw one good england game to watch and that was Turkey game in his WHOLE england tenure. go figure. SAM is the man. right time, right place and affordable. Still he has one of the best records as England manager. Lost only 10 games in his 5 years in charge of England in about 70 games played He played Lampard+Gerard because they are the best English midfielders atm. He tried to put the best 11 England players on the field. Do you think if Rooney and Ronaldo cant play together Ferguson will drop either of them? He will try to play them both because they are the best players he have Also England lost to Portugal at the last 2 big tournamets on penalties!!! I dont think there is any shameful thing about that. Its not like you have lost by 3 goals margin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 The people voting Koeman must be blind. He fucked up PSV this year and will continue to do so next year. He can't handle players with an attitude and even Roeders transfers are good compared to his. Big Sam please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LUKASJJ Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 IMHO big sam is the best option, if you look at it he is available has a good knowledge of our league and seemingly leagues worldwide, he also has something to prove. If i was him i wouold think why dont i get mentioned for the top four etc. If he proved himself here surely he would be mentioned. Not that i want to be a stepping stone for bigger things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SeattleToon Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 To those of you supporting Big Sam....a few points about the quality of English managers such as Allardyce. 1) None of the top four clubs are managed by an Englishman. What does that tell you about the overall quality of English managers? 2) Name the last major trophy won by an English manager (Carling Cup doesn't count). 3) What does it say about the quality of English managers that Steve McLaren is managing the national team? Big Sam deserves all the praise in the world for what he has accomplished at Bolton. But he's not the right man for a club as ambitious as Newcastle. He'd keep us in the UEFA Cup places every year to be sure, but he's not going to get us back into the Champion's League. For that we need somebody from the continent who is tactically sophisticated and has European experience. Houllier, Eriksson, and Koeman fit the bill....Allardyce most certainly does not. If you want to continue to hover around mid-table, then Big Sam will be perfectly adequate. If you want to get back into the Champion's League, then we need to hire somebody else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFC06 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 To those of you supporting Big Sam....a few points about the quality of English managers such as Allardyce. 1) None of the top four clubs are managed by an Englishman. What does that tell you about the overall quality of English managers? 2) Name the last major trophy won by an English manager (Carling Cup doesn't count). 3) What does it say about the quality of English managers that Steve McLaren is managing the national team? Big Sam deserves all the praise in the world for what he has accomplished at Bolton. But he's not the right man for a club as ambitious as Newcastle. He'd keep us in the UEFA Cup places every year to be sure, but he's not going to get us back into the Champion's League. For that we need somebody from the continent who is tactically sophisticated and has European experience. Houllier, Eriksson, and Koeman fit the bill....Allardyce most certainly does not. If you want to continue to hover around mid-table, then Big Sam will be perfectly adequate. If you want to get back into the Champion's League, then we need to hire somebody else. Agree with you Just remove the name of Houllier with the manager that could fit the bill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Why do people fail to see the connection that sometimes winning trophies isn't the only criteria of a good manager? What did Shearer win in his career? Does the fact that someone like Cygan or O'Shea have probably won more mean they are better players? We are talking about managers here not players Why do people fail to see the connection that sometimes winning trophies isn't the only criteria of a good manager? If you went by trophies, Souness would be in the same class as O'Neill. SBR would have been a complete failure at Newcastle.... He won the Uefa cup and the FA cup with Ipswich.Also he won the European Cup Winners' Cup with Barca That is good achievement imo and thats not all of his trophies won So Allardyce should be expected to win trophies even though he is at a small club with one of the smallest budgets in the league? SBR won nothing here though, if the mark of a good manager is winning trophies then he must have failed during his time as Newcastle manager. The point of this argument that started IS wining trophies the most important thing about appointing a manager. No but if some manager has won trophies at every club he managed,especially wining the Uefa cup with anonymous club and also reaching the final of the Champions league with also not so famous club like Benfica,then this manager must be good.His track record is there. The other manager(Allardyce)has won nothing so far.Of course that doesnt make him bad manager but he still has alot to prove until he reached the achievements Ericksson have dont he? lol your suggesting SGE. dont you think we have had enought duff overrated managers... who DID have some success, but when a big job came about were f****** woeful. seriously no one .. especially now.. should want SGE, the guy is looking for a last pay cheque, he has the best national side in the world imo, but couldnt make simple decisions ie: drop beckham, lampard & gerrard cant play together YET consisted with playing them!!! he also has the WORST negative tactics ever, i only saw one good england game to watch and that was Turkey game in his WHOLE england tenure. go figure. SAM is the man. right time, right place and affordable. Still he has one of the best records as England manager. Lost only 10 games in his 5 years in charge of England in about 70 games played He played Lampard+Gerard because they are the best English midfielders atm. He tried to put the best 11 England players on the field. Do you think if Rooney and Ronaldo cant play together Ferguson will drop either of them? He will try to play them both because they are the best players he have Also England lost to Portugal at the last 2 big tournamets on penalties!!! I dont think there is any shameful thing about that. Its not like you have lost by 3 goals margin. oh ye SGE is a cracking manager, anyone who was half good at there job could get through the fecking group stages! oo we did lose to portugal, we have on paper a team that is a different class to them. they have zero squad depth when we had arguably the best at the tournament. tactically negative. no urgency to play. rubbish subs ie: ecuador winning 1-0 Joe Cole off (78min?) for Jamie Carragher and too 85+ min subs to bring on Aaron Lennon and Downing. Constant excuses regarding form.. unfit, heat etc. Sound familar, believe got rid of one guy which sounds familar. what on earth did he prove at England please? That he could bed secretary's? By sounds of it can't even control his dressing room,lack of passion on sidelines newcastle fans tear him apart within the space of 2 or 3 bad results on the spin. Unproven in england, living on past sucesses. big sam overachieving antics anyday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest assyriantoon Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Trond Sollied Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Trond Sollied http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/4/44/443/443118/trsoll.jpg Couldn't have said it better myself. Though I can't honestly say I'd be anything else than shocked if it doesn't end up being Big Sam as our new manager. Personally I don't really think that much about any of the options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Who would I choose as our next manager? Fantasy candidate - Guus Hiddink Ambitious candidate - Mark Hughes Realistic candidates - Sam Allardyce or Gerard Houllier. That is all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SeattleToon Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Although he's not my first choice, I really don't get why people hate SGE so much. He's won trophies everyone he's managed, and he led England to three consecutive quarterfinals after a period in which they had only made the quarterfinals in one out of five tournaments (Euro 96, on home soil). Regardless of everything else about him he gets results, and given that its been 38 years since we last won a trophy, shouldn't we be happy to get a manager who knows how to get results? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stozo Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Who would I choose as our next manager? Fantasy candidate - Guus Hiddink Ambitious candidate - Mark Hughes Realistic candidates - Sam Allardyce or Gerard Houllier. That is all Hughes over Allardyce. What has he done to show himself to be better than Big Sam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gleebals Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 To those of you supporting Big Sam....a few points about the quality of English managers such as Allardyce. 1) None of the top four clubs are managed by an Englishman. What does that tell you about the overall quality of English managers? 2) Name the last major trophy won by an English manager (Carling Cup doesn't count). 3) What does it say about the quality of English managers that Steve McLaren is managing the national team? Big Sam deserves all the praise in the world for what he has accomplished at Bolton. But he's not the right man for a club as ambitious as Newcastle. He'd keep us in the UEFA Cup places every year to be sure, but he's not going to get us back into the Champion's League. For that we need somebody from the continent who is tactically sophisticated and has European experience. Houllier, Eriksson, and Koeman fit the bill....Allardyce most certainly does not. If you want to continue to hover around mid-table, then Big Sam will be perfectly adequate. If you want to get back into the Champion's League, then we need to hire somebody else. " But he's not the right man for a club as ambitious as Newcastle." Ambitions. Mmmm - based on the last 9 months, should I say 10, My only ambition is to see a club - Chairman, Manager, Players - that actually give a fook about NUFC. Fook the CL, we are so far away from that its not even funny. A new manager and 20M will not make us CL material. It takes time. We need someone ambitious - not someone who is living of past glories aka SGE. We need a manager that wants to get there not someone who has been there. We also need someone that can do it with little investment. Why spunk fook loads on SGE and the end up in more shite. Our current squad, at rediculous cost, is more than capable of hitting top 6. We just need a manager that will ensure that. Not one that will spend more making other wrongs even more wrong. Big Sam (for all the supposed baggage) is just that person IMO. Fook short arse and frog eyes.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SeattleToon Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 And what makes you think that Big Sam is going to"give a fook" about NUFC any more than any other manager would? Because he's English? Heck, if that's what you want, rehire Roeder! He certainly gave a fook about NUFC! Fat load of good it did!!! You want to choose Big Sam based upon his sterling record of achievement with Bolton? Yes, this is going to be the fourth consecutive season that he's steered Bolton to a 6th-8th place finish. So what! Sunderland, Leicester City, Ipswich, West Ham, Blackburn, Southampton, Charlton, and Boro are all small clubs who have also finished between 6th and 8th during Big Sam's Bolton tenure. Are we rushing out to sign all of their manager's too? Bottom line is that Big Sam would be a good choice for an unambitious club that's happy just to be in the race for Europe each season. That's not Newcastle. We're a club that should be in Europe every season, preferably in the Champion's League, and are damn unhappy if we're not. If were going to get back to the heights we reached under Keegan and SBR, we need a manager who knows how to win trophies and who has European experience. That's not Big Sam. He's probably the 8th or 9th best manager available right now, and anybody who is willing to settle for someone like him just because he's been successful with Bolton and is going to care about the club isn't being ambitious enough. Not when there are European managers like Rainieri, Koeman, Van Gaal, Houllier, SGE, and Ramos who may be interested in the job. Last year we were all crying out for Hitzfield....and now we're willing to settle for Sam Allardyce?? Have some ambition, people!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 And what makes you think that Big Sam is going to"give a fook" about NUFC any more than any other manager would? Because he's English? Heck, if that's what you want, rehire Roeder! He certainly gave a fook about NUFC! Fat load of good it did!!! You want to choose Big Sam based upon his sterling record of achievement with Bolton? Yes, this is going to be the fourth consecutive season that he's steered Bolton to a 6th-8th place finish. So what! Sunderland, Leicester City, Ipswich, West Ham, Blackburn, Southampton, Charlton, and Boro are all small clubs who have also finished between 6th and 8th during Big Sam's Bolton tenure. Are we rushing out to sign all of their manager's too? Bottom line is that Big Sam would be a good choice for an unambitious club that's happy just to be in the race for Europe each season. That's not Newcastle. We're a club that should be in Europe every season, preferably in the Champion's League, and are damn unhappy if we're not. If were going to get back to the heights we reached under Keegan and SBR, we need a manager who knows how to win trophies and who has European experience. That's not Big Sam. He's probably the 8th or 9th best manager available right now, and anybody who is willing to settle for someone like him just because he's been successful with Bolton and is going to care about the club isn't being ambitious enough. Not when there are European managers like Rainieri, Koeman, Van Gaal, Houllier, SGE, and Ramos who may be interested in the job. Last year we were all crying out for Hitzfield....and now we're willing to settle for Sam Allardyce?? Have some ambition, people!!! some great points but you are living on past glorys now if we had of found a new manager before robson lost the plot then yes season in season out we should have been in europe but times have changed we have had a disasterous couple of seasons due to souness, injuries and the rat. We now need rebuilding a club who have been in the CL before doesnt give us the right to be in it yr in yr out. SA would and should bring us back down to earth make us build season to season and hopefully not waste a fortune. Yes be ambition but please get your head out the clouds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Maybe it is too ambitious, but i just don't think Allardyce is going to be able to take us anywhere other than solid mid table. Which is not what i want, realistic or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SeattleToon Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 And what clouds are those? If we hire a good manager with European experience who knows how to operate shrewdly in the transfer market, there's no reason why we can't finish 5th next season, especially given that Spurs may lose Berbatov. And if Arsenal continues to struggle like they did this season, there's no reason why we can't finish 4th if everything goes right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 well right now we arent going to attract a premiership proven manager better than SA I mean come on if we aim for a uefa cup spot the next couple of season would you not be happy baring in mind under the rat we would have been facing possible relegation fears or below mid table mediocre football. All I'm trying to say is I want to see us in the CL as much as anyone but sinse we are never going to make this massive leap in a short period of time and with alot of teams following foreign investment becomming stronger we all need to realise that while the likes of the unt's and chelseas are in this league we along with 8 other sides are aiming for 5th down. Once we build oursellves back up, constant investment is made with the young en's, scouting, coaching and player spending and we are still sitting there stagnating thats when i will be screaming get us a new manager that can take us to the next level right now we arent even at an exceptable level so yes SA is perfect for the toon right now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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