What does 433 mean for our wingers?

[Lloydie]

Right now our squad contains a number of players we think of as wingers, namely Dyer, Solano, Milner, Luque, N'zogbia and Duff. We also have a bunch of strikers namely Owen, Martins, Viduka and Ameobi. Last season playing 4-4-2 that meant eight players chasing four positions (once you allow for Sibierski being at the club and Owen and Ameobi being injured). Once Solano moved to right back it went down to seven players and four positions. That's a healthy level of competition.

 

If our new preferred formation is 4-3-3 all those players are going to be chasing three starting slots. However it's even more competitive than that, because the central striker role is only ever going to go to one of the specialist strikers - probably Viduka. Which leaves all the remaining players chasing two starting slots. That's nine players after two positions.

 

Applying the conventional wisdom of two players for every position we need to trim some players. Of our wingers Milner is about the only one I can see playing in the midfield 3 effectively, while of our forwards I can definately see Owen or Martins doing a job wide on the flanks the way Anelka and Diouf have for Bolton.

 

So you might keep players like Owen, Martins, Viduka, Ameobi, Milner and N'Zogbia to provide the front three, while getting rid of Dyer, Solano, Luque and Duff. You could perhaps make a case for keeping Solano as an emergency right back and free kick specialist, and playing Dyer in a midfield three, but I don't see either of them commanding starting places on a regular basis.

 

Whichever way you cut it I think there's going to be sales or come January we'll have a bunch of attacking midfielders muttering about how they're not being given a chance.

 

As an aside, looking at the squad we've got now we end up lining up a bit like this

 

                            Given

 

Carr      Taylor        Rozenhaal        Babayaro

 

        Butt          Emre          Barton

 

Owen                                                  Martins

                          Viduka

 

With a bench of Milner, NZogbia, Ameobi, Huntington, Harper; or something similar, the cover in centre mid / defence is still woeful. So there's an awful lot of shopping still to do.

[Unlucky Luque]

  Milner            Barton            Emre

   

            Owen            Martins

 

                      Viduka

 

maybe

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

As attacking options duff, nzog, dyer and maybe even milner would perform well as one of the 3 around the main point (probably viduka)

[SEMTEX]

Barton Edmilson Emre

Milner                Random

          Viduka

[Guest HCh]

                            Viduka

           Martins

                                                Milner

         Emre                 Barton

                        Butt

 

(Injury list: Owen, ...)

[Lloydie]

Yup, all possible, but however you slice it we seem to have too many players for these positions.

[steve_69]

It's so difficult to predict what he's going to do. Given that he's praised Milner and Martins, said Owen is 100% staying, stated that Dyer will play a major part in his plans and bought Viduka and Barton i can't see Emre getting a game, and it highlights how much Big Sam is trying to build a squad. 

 

 

 

Martins.......Owen......Dyer

 

 

 

Milner.........Butt........Barton

 

Viduka, Solano, Duff, Ameobi, N'Zogbia, Emre, Luque, Gudjohnsen?, Edmilson all left out?

 

[madras]

Yup, all possible, but however you slice it we seem to have too many players for these positions.

other teams have strong squads,we have too many players for these positions.

 

jeez

[Nobody]

No wingers in my book...

              Butt

    Barton    Emre

Owen                    Martins

            Viduka

[greydos]

                                Given

                                Harper

 

New RB    Taylor        Rozenhal New LB

  Carr/Solano      Ramage            New CB              Baba

 

 

                                      Butt

                                Edmilson(New DM)

 

                      Barton              Emre

                  Dyer/Milner/Solano      Milner/Dyer/Zog

                                                       

 

      Owen                                        Duff

Solano//Milner/Martins/Dyer                  Dyer/Luque/N'Zog

 

                                Viduka

                                    Ameobi

 

 

Not sure if that is going to come out looking right, the top line is who i am expecting to start next season, and the formation. As far as i can see, plenty of places for those players.

 

I think the problem arises Lloydie when people don't rate certain players as being able to play in certain positions whereas manages do, for example dyer can easily play as an attacking central mid as part of a three and challenge barton, or come on as an impact player to take emre's place in the middle. In our successful years under SBR he did this as part of a 2, so a 3 gives him even more room. Similarly with Solano in a middle three, using his passing and clever movement, same with milner in the middle three, and N'Zog. I think the balance is perfect at the moment, with maybe one more attacker/midfielder to come in

[greydos]

Why the whole of that post came out emboldened i don't know :-[

[JH]

I reckon it'll be:

 

        Barton    Butt    Emre

 

Milner/Dyer                  Owen/Martins

 

                    Viduka

[Guest Morph]

4-3-3 for our wingers will mean that they will actually play on the wing in an attacking 3 formation.  I hear it is often the preferred formation to the new Newcastle manager Sam Allardyce.  Usually left footed wingers play on the left side, and right footed wingers on the right.  This however is not always true, as demonstrated by Joe Cole, who plays on the left for Chelsea FC and Jerome Thomas, who played on the left for Charlton Athletic FC.

[Guest jamesmartinsmith]

Barton Edmilson Emre

Milner                Random

          Viduka

That's if we get Edmilson. Barca are having second thoughts.

[Mr. Snrub]

Can't believe so many people would want Owen out wide in an attacking front 3.  He'd be so ineffective there.

[Yorkie]

I reckon it'll be:

 

         Barton    Butt     Emre

 

Milner/Dyer                  Owen/Martins

 

                     Viduka

 

Yup. Hopefully Oba there. Owen won't work there/will leave.

[JH]

I reckon it'll be:

 

         Barton    Butt     Emre

 

Milner/Dyer                  Owen/Martins

 

                     Viduka

 

Yup. Hopefully Oba there. Owen won't work there/will leave.

 

I put those two there together because I believe one of them will leave and the other will stay. Do agree however, Oba would work better in that position

[Tachikoma]

We'll probably use both the 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 depending on who we're playing, imo.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

                                 Given

                                 Harper

 

New RB    Taylor         Rozenhal New LB

  Carr/Solano      Ramage             New CB               Baba

 

 

                                      Butt

                                 Edmilson(New DM)

 

                      Barton               Emre

                  Dyer/Milner/Solano       Milner/Dyer/Zog

                                                       

 

       Owen                                        Duff

Solano//Milner/Martins/Dyer                   Dyer/Luque/N'Zog

 

                                Viduka

                                    Ameobi

 

 

Not sure if that is going to come out looking right, the top line is who i am expecting to start next season, and the formation. As far as i can see, plenty of places for those players.

 

I think the problem arises Lloydie when people don't rate certain players as being able to play in certain positions whereas manages do, for example dyer can easily play as an attacking central mid as part of a three and challenge barton, or come on as an impact player to take emre's place in the middle. In our successful years under SBR he did this as part of a 2, so a 3 gives him even more room. Similarly with Solano in a middle three, using his passing and clever movement, same with milner in the middle three, and N'Zog. I think the balance is perfect at the moment, with maybe one more attacker/midfielder to come in

 

That is a rather BOLD statement HAHAHAA

[Guest Steven_MB]

We'll probably use both the 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 depending on who we're playing, imo.

 

hope not, one formation, with all players getting used to it, then great at it is what a scientist-type of manager like sam will do probably.

[NoU]

Aren't people forgetting that Sam will probably employ the 4-5-1 formation in many games (from what I've heard 4-4-2 seems unlikely). which will mean there's still three central midfielders, but two wings and only one forward position for our four frontmen to fight over (Viduka will probably get it).

Of course if we replaced Martins or Owen with Gudjohnson (please please please) he could be the top of the three man central midfield.

[Cronky]

Can't believe so many people would want Owen out wide in an attacking front 3.  He'd be so ineffective there.

 

I agree, and likewise Martins. Neither are suited to that position, and would have difficulty adapting.

 

Milner, Duff, Dyer and at a pinch Emre would be able to do well in those wide positions. And Viduka and Ameobi are each well suited to the central position.

 

The way I see it, a very tricky situation could develop. Allardyce has to either change to a 4-4-2, or not use Owen or Martins as first choice.

[Rob W]

stuff what it means for the wingers

 

for teh paying public it means a really boring match

[La Parka]

Away:

 

............Butt...........

....Baton..........Emre

Milner.............Martins

...........Viduka.........

 

Home:

 

 

Milner....Barton...Butt...Duff

...........Owen...Viduka.........

 

 

? 

[Guest jamesmartinsmith]

Don't get too excited about a 4-3-3.

 

We have to keep hold of Oba and Owen.