Guest the_guv_nor Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Veron - Cost Nearly £30m SHOULD of been awesome!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 How the f*** can you compare Owen to Messi In terms of hype perhaps and speculation around his talent? Never compared their ability, different players for a start. Owen was an exciting prospect when he was 18, not just at home but abroad due to his goal at the WC and the expansion of the Premiership into more foreign homes. Don't think anyone ever thought Owen was going to ultimately be the best player in the world though, which most believe Messi is destined to be. Best striker/goalscorer though? And lets not forget, the Internet and over exposure of footy on TV has helped Messi's claims a great deal, not to mention playing for one of the greatest teams on Earth. Owen at 18 was just as exciting and as big a prospect, if not for different reasons. I'd put a lot of it down to injuries with Owen, even since leaving Liverpool his goalscoring record has been exceptional with us and Madrid, when fit. And he's not just an out and out pace player or goalhanger either, his all-round game is much better than some people give him credit for, something I can recll you posting on numerous times when we first signed him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Ian Wright was on Talksport the other days saying how it was a crying shame Jamie Redknapp had the injuries he did as he was on course to be a world class midfielder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 the main difference between Messi/Owen going past people is Messi is a skilfull player whereas Owen used mainly his pace to go past people. When Messi's pace leaves him, the technique will still be there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. I think people forget about the hype around him when he was 18 and after THAT goal. It was mega, especially considering there was no Youtube and 24-7 blanket coverage. He along with beckham were England's poster boys, did anyone see the reception those two got in Asia during the 2002 World Cup? You'd think they were the biggest stars there. Also, when he was 18, he scored something like 18 goals for Liverpool in one season, become England's youngest scorer, and used to whizz past players as if they weren't there for both club and country. People talk about Messi's ability to get past players, to excite, no different to Owen at the same age. IMO we overrate foreign players a lot here in the UK, especially ones we probably haven't seen up close and personal live. I'd say it's the exact opposite and overrate our own something rotten. We do aye, but with more justification given we see these players every week, live and in person, would you agree? It is getting to the point now where our own foreigners if you like such as Fabregas and Ronaldo are being classed as overrated players compared to players like Iniesta and Messi when if anything the differences are minimal if any at all. You don't see the imperfections of your Messi's and such as you dould your Ronaldo's. One argument I've had on here in the past is that Ronaldo lacks Messi's vision yet whenever I've seen Messi he's produced countless headless chicken moments where he's just ran at a player and got himself leg-tied, thus losing possession and looking like a dick, or the Ronaldo of 2 years or so ago. A simple pass would have sufficed. Anyway I hate all this comparing, another irritation of the modern fan and game, which I admit I'm prone to myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. I think people forget about the hype around him when he was 18 and after THAT goal. It was mega, especially considering there was no Youtube and 24-7 blanket coverage. He along with beckham were England's poster boys, did anyone see the reception those two got in Asia during the 2002 World Cup? You'd think they were the biggest stars there. Also, when he was 18, he scored something like 18 goals for Liverpool in one season, become England's youngest scorer, and used to whizz past players as if they weren't there for both club and country. People talk about Messi's ability to get past players, to excite, no different to Owen at the same age. IMO we overrate foreign players a lot here in the UK, especially ones we probably haven't seen up close and personal live. I'd say it's the exact opposite and overrate our own something rotten. We do aye, but with more justification given we see these players every week, live and in person, would you agree? It is getting to the point now where our own foreigners if you like such as Fabregas and Ronaldo are being classed as overrated players compared to players like Iniesta and Messi when if anything the differences are minimal if any at all. You don't see the imperfections of your Messi's and such as you dould your Ronaldo's. One argument I've had on here in the past is that Ronaldo lacks Messi's vision yet whenever I've seen Messi he's produced countless headless chicken moments where he's just ran at a player and got himself leg-tied, thus losing possession and looking like a dick, or the Ronaldo of 2 years or so ago. A simple pass would have sufficed. Anyway I hate all this comparing, another irritation of the modern fan and game, which I admit I'm prone to myself. Fabregas isn't overrated the boy is a class act, he has ran the show on countless occasions against more established stars so to speak. Cristiano is overrated as he is yet to deliver consistently when it matters against bigger opposition for Man Utd. I watch Barcelona every week and can safely say I do actually see more of Messi and Iniesta than I do of Fabregas and Cristiano so for myself that certainly doesn't apply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Ronaldo and Fabregas do get over rated in this country by knobheads who get too excited when they score against 34 year old defenders for Bolton and go "omg he da best playa i ever seen like". A player who is under rated in this country now is Ronaldinho, everyone thinks he's shit because he had a bad drop of form last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Tino Asprilla -- prodigious talent, zero discipline or mental control. That's who sprang to my mind. Laurent Robert aswell. Yeah, though Robert wasn't quite as talented, nor quite as mental. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlufPurdi Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Ronaldo and Fabregas do get over rated in this country by knobheads who get too excited when they score against 34 year old defenders for Bolton and go "omg he da best playa i ever seen like". A player who is under rated in this country now is Ronaldinho, everyone thinks he's shit because he had a bad drop of form last year. Agreed totally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. People thought he was going to be 'it'. Maybe not the best player going, but certainly the best striker/goal scorer, not 'one of' the best, but thee best. (He's not one of the best either, for the record) He's not the best admittedly, but I'm really struggling to think of that many that are better than him in terms of being a pure goalscorer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 the main difference between Messi/Owen going past people is Messi is a skilfull player whereas Owen used mainly his pace to go past people. When Messi's pace leaves him, the technique will still be there I have a DVD that would disprove your claim, showing Owen's full range of dribbling and taking on tricks and techniques. He might never have used the Ronaldinho string thing trick in a game, but he can do it. Sorry but I don't buy this technique thing. There are a few clips on Youtube of Owen in his Liverpool days, I suggest you watch it and see for yourself, you'll then see he had technique as well as pace, just like Messi. Technique comes out in different ways BTW, would you say Joe Cole is technically inferior to Messi? I wouldn't, I'd say his footballing brain and lack of pace is, but not the technique. This is probably where we go wrong developing our players, we don't develop the brain enough or allow it to, instead looking to knock all that free thinking out of the player from an early age so when they get into a team the manager won't have to shout at him to graft his balls off or to play where I bloody well tell you son. I see this at under 9s BTW, so sad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Djalminha. Brilliant player to watch on his day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxaux Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 A few players off the top of my head who have underachieved in the modern game: Sylvain Wiltord - After much success in France and a dramatic goal in the European cup final Arsenal brought Wiltord to England in 2000 for thirteen million pounds. Although he had a great habit of scoring when it really mattered we only caught the occasional glimpse of the class that was so prominent in his early career. Pablo Aimar - Like so many players in Argentina Aimar had to cope with the burden of expectation as he became latest in a long line of players to be dubbed "the next Maradona". After clinching a twenty five million euro move to Valencia his intelligence on the ball and awareness in midfield helped them to claim La Liga title and a UEFA cup but he still failed to live up to the label slapped on him at such an early age. Ruben Baraja - After shining in an Athletico Madrid side that failed to beat the drop Baraja moved on to Valencia. Hailed as "the most complete midfield player in the world" he quickly pushed his way into the Spanish national side. Despite still being more than capable in attack and defense Baraja peaked far too early in his career. Hugo Viana - After winning European young player of the year Hugo Viana made a big money move to Newcastle United. However a lack of first team chances lead to a stunting in his development. Michael Ballack - Made his name at Bayer Leverkusen as a box to box midfielder. After a move to Bayern Ottmar Hitzfeld deployed him in a much deeper role. Although he still had the battling attributes to be a world class player he never hit his true potential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Woodgate - Would have gone somewhere better than us and certainly would have never have even thought about Middlesborough if it wasn't for his injuries and off field troubles. Saviola to an extent aswell although he still has a lot of time to get it back and isn't at the worst club in the world at the moment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. People thought he was going to be 'it'. Maybe not the best player going, but certainly the best striker/goal scorer, not 'one of' the best, but thee best. (He's not one of the best either, for the record) He's not the best admittedly, but I'm really struggling to think of that many that are better than him in terms of being a pure goalscorer. I think Owen's finishing technique was among the best as an 18 year old, certainly that I've soon. A very very cool finisher with an amazing array of different finishing skills. He would use his sole, his instep, laces, drive it, place it, toe-poke it, curl it, or just as well blast it. Natural IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Was going to say Viana, but he's still got a bit of time on his side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlufPurdi Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. People thought he was going to be 'it'. Maybe not the best player going, but certainly the best striker/goal scorer, not 'one of' the best, but thee best. (He's not one of the best either, for the record) He's not the best admittedly, but I'm really struggling to think of that many that are better than him in terms of being a pure goalscorer. 2J threw the "never does it against the big teams" point at C. Ronaldo, I'd like to throw that at Owen. Have a think about it by the way, don't just denounce it as rubbish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. People thought he was going to be 'it'. Maybe not the best player going, but certainly the best striker/goal scorer, not 'one of' the best, but thee best. (He's not one of the best either, for the record) He's not the best admittedly, but I'm really struggling to think of that many that are better than him in terms of being a pure goalscorer. Owen has the best goals to game percentage in the Premiership now Henry's left iirc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Good list, HTT. Of modern players, Anelka stands out as a wasted talent. He's got everything but never had the ambition to be the best in the world, which was within his capability. I don't regard Tony Green as a player who could have been great. He was great. He just didn't play for very long. And I've always felt that Batty could have been a much better all round player than he turned out. He seemed content to be a clogger, and settled for a very conservative approach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Ronaldo and Fabregas do get over rated in this country by knobheads who get too excited when they score against 34 year old defenders for Bolton and go "omg he da best playa i ever seen like". A player who is under rated in this country now is Ronaldinho, everyone thinks he's shit because he had a bad drop of form last year. And Messi doesn't do the same for his team? Not all teams in La Liga are as good as Barcelona and have similar world-class players in their team. I saw Messi struggle against a very average Brazilian side the other night, he was like a healdess chicken all night and kept running into a brick wall time and time again. OMG he's a thick shit... you'd think he'd learn his lesson and try another move. Same with Riquelme, kept playing the same floated free-kick every time, straight to a Brazil head. But we don't see these imperfections week in week out like we do with our own stars and are biased as a result, likewise we are biased with our own stars because we do see them week in week out. In short Bluf is right, we just overrate everyone. It's the comparing that does my head in. People way use Messi to criticise Ronaldo, or vice versa, why? Both fantastic players, quite different players, both with the ability to be the best. Time will tell who does, there is room for both though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Its tiresome and predictable in threads such as these, where folk love having a pop at generally highly rated players just to be clever, controversial and fashionable. Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlufPurdi Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Or they're debating? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Denilson. Adriano is on his way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Denilson. Adriano is on his way. Should Denilson have been better or was he just vasted over rated in the first place? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Controversial one for you now. Ryan Giggs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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