Shak Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. People thought he was going to be 'it'. Maybe not the best player going, but certainly the best striker/goal scorer, not 'one of' the best, but thee best. (He's not one of the best either, for the record) He's not the best admittedly, but I'm really struggling to think of that many that are better than him in terms of being a pure goalscorer. 2J threw the "never does it against the big teams" point at C. Ronaldo, I'd like to throw that at Owen. Have a think about it by the way, don't just denounce it as rubbish. He did win an FA Cup final pretty much on his own tbh, and that goal against Argentina in the WC in '98 was a massive game. Can't really remmeber how he played in most of his big games at Liverpool, but I've never seen him as a big game underachiever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxaux Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Woodgate - Would have gone somewhere better than us and certainly would have never have even thought about Middlesborough if it wasn't for his injuries and off field troubles. Saviola to an extent aswell although he still has a lot of time to get it back and isn't at the worst club in the world at the moment Agree on both counts. Woodgate had the potential to go all the way, he was even compared to Tony Adams by many but as we know injuries essentially ruined his career. Saviola on the other hand was a goal machine at River Plate, he made his debut at the age of 16 and never turned back. Unfortunately he never really recovered from the Van Gaal era at Barcelona. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Controversial one for you now. Ryan Giggs. Alex will have you for that. I'd consider Giggs to have been top class. Suppose he could have been better, but you could say that about almost anyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. People thought he was going to be 'it'. Maybe not the best player going, but certainly the best striker/goal scorer, not 'one of' the best, but thee best. (He's not one of the best either, for the record) He's not the best admittedly, but I'm really struggling to think of that many that are better than him in terms of being a pure goalscorer. 2J threw the "never does it against the big teams" point at C. Ronaldo, I'd like to throw that at Owen. Have a think about it by the way, don't just denounce it as rubbish. I'm not so sure Bluf, Owen has scored some pretty vital goals against big teams, two FA Cup Final goals to beat Arsenal, goals against all the top nations, goals against Man Utd... all the top teams. Even scored in a Madrid-Barca derby match. Are you referring to performances? If so then I'd agree, he often goes missing, but still pops up with a goal which I guess is his game these days. When he was 18, he terrorised defences and had a massive impact on games, none more so than against us it seemed, I still remember that hat-trick at SJP. Ouch. As for Ronaldo, he perfoms in the big games, don't let one CL Semi-Final no-show make you biased, after all Messi didn't turn up against Brazil the other night and Ronaldino where was he in Germany? Oh and BTW, the big games or key games are often against lesser teams, i.e. Ronaldo's goal against Fulham to turn the game around, his performance against Everton. That to me is just the same as doing it against an AC Milan. Sadly in today's game the top players are all finding it hard to figure in the big one off matches, due to tactics, hype maybe and sheer expectation, not to mention the big big games usually happen at the end of a long long hard season. I wouldn't use this subjective point against Ronaldo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Spectrum Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Paul Lake Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Ronaldo and Fabregas do get over rated in this country by knobheads who get too excited when they score against 34 year old defenders for Bolton and go "omg he da best playa i ever seen like". A player who is under rated in this country now is Ronaldinho, everyone thinks he's shit because he had a bad drop of form last year. And Messi doesn't do the same for his team? Not all teams in La Liga are as good as Barcelona and have similar world-class players in their team. I saw Messi struggle against a very average Brazilian side the other night, he was like a healdess chicken all night and kept running into a brick wall time and time again. OMG he's a thick shit... you'd think he'd learn his lesson and try another move. Same with Riquelme, kept playing the same floated free-kick every time, straight to a Brazil head. But we don't see these imperfections week in week out like we do with our own stars and are biased as a result, likewise we are biased with our own stars because we do see them week in week out. In short Bluf is right, we just overrate everyone. It's the comparing that does my head in. People way use Messi to criticise Ronaldo, or vice versa, why? Both fantastic players, quite different players, both with the ability to be the best. Time will tell who does, there is room for both though. grass is greener on the other side. there's a barca fan posts on here said Ronaldinho was massively over-rated and not as good as Henry, and didn't deserve the world player of the year when he got it. when people are seeing something different they're more likely to be impressed, whereas the football that you have grown up with so that you are keenly aware of its faults has to do something more special to impress. its why a season or two ago, when madrid or barca fans were asked what player they'd like, they voted for lampard, cos he is something different to what you have in spain. also whereas people are inclined to slate ronaldo cos all he is doing is "scoring against 34 year old bolton defenders" they are less likely to say "well Messi scores against shite like getafe". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlufPurdi Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. People thought he was going to be 'it'. Maybe not the best player going, but certainly the best striker/goal scorer, not 'one of' the best, but thee best. (He's not one of the best either, for the record) He's not the best admittedly, but I'm really struggling to think of that many that are better than him in terms of being a pure goalscorer. 2J threw the "never does it against the big teams" point at C. Ronaldo, I'd like to throw that at Owen. Have a think about it by the way, don't just denounce it as rubbish. He did win an FA Cup final pretty much on his own tbh, and that goal against Argentina in the WC in '98 was a massive game. Can't really remmeber how he played in most of his big games at Liverpool, but I've never seen him as a big game underachiever. That's about your whack, if you ask me. He was young and fearless against the Argies, and an unknown quantity. I could be wrong, but that's how I've always saw it. Always said he was an overrated player, not in one iota trying to be "controversial" or "clever". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Controversial one for you now. Ryan Giggs. Alex will have you for that. I'd consider Giggs to have been top class. Suppose he could have been better, but you could say that about almost anyone. I'd see Giggs as an over-achiever if anything. Quick with a nice change of direction, but not especially strong and not blessed with brilliant technique. But very determined and aggressive in the right sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Steve Davis, Lee Cattermole and any other central midfielder who had one decent season and then were linked to ManU and Arsenal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Paul Lake A blast from the past but it's a good shout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Controversial one for you now. Ryan Giggs. At home, no, on the world stage - without a doubt. A better player than Figo for me (just my opinion) but will never get the acclaim. I don't know why, perhaps playing for Wales, perhaps not being as selfish as some wingers are which can work in your favour. There have been countless times when Giggs instead of skinning the full-back, would cut inside and play a square ball to one of Scholes or Keane which Man Utd would profit from anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Gazza Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Controversial one for you now. Ryan Giggs. At home, no, on the world stage - without a doubt. A better player than Figo for me (just my opinion) but will never get the acclaim. I don't know why, perhaps playing for Wales, perhaps not being as selfish as some wingers are which can work in your favour. There have been countless times when Giggs instead of skinning the full-back, would cut inside and play a square ball to one of Scholes or Keane which Man Utd would profit from anyway. The injuries man, look at the Giggs of '92, he should have been winning so many individual awards man, an absolute travesty. Not saying he hasn't been fantastic mind, I just think there's something extra he could have achieved if it wasn't for those hamstrings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. People thought he was going to be 'it'. Maybe not the best player going, but certainly the best striker/goal scorer, not 'one of' the best, but thee best. (He's not one of the best either, for the record) He's not the best admittedly, but I'm really struggling to think of that many that are better than him in terms of being a pure goalscorer. 2J threw the "never does it against the big teams" point at C. Ronaldo, I'd like to throw that at Owen. Have a think about it by the way, don't just denounce it as rubbish. He did win an FA Cup final pretty much on his own tbh, and that goal against Argentina in the WC in '98 was a massive game. Can't really remmeber how he played in most of his big games at Liverpool, but I've never seen him as a big game underachiever. That's about your whack, if you ask me. He was young and fearless against the Argies, and an unknown quantity. I could be wrong, but that's how I've always saw it. Always said he was an overrated player, not in one iota trying to be "controversial" or "clever". I thought the same as you Bluf, but Owen is a much better footballer than he's given credit for in my opinion. When we signed him for example, I didn't expect him to work as hard as he did, or show a level of control and awareness around him that he did. I was so used to seeing him for England where he stood hands on hips for the most part waiting for a Gerrard ball or for Sven to push the side higher up to close the gap between him and midfield that rarely came, I forgot how good a player he was. In his few games for us, he was often the best player in our team in my eyes, in short you could tell he was a class act above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 BTW this is much better than talking about meaningless friendlies and defenders/transfers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlufPurdi Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 blueyes.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlufPurdi Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. People thought he was going to be 'it'. Maybe not the best player going, but certainly the best striker/goal scorer, not 'one of' the best, but thee best. (He's not one of the best either, for the record) He's not the best admittedly, but I'm really struggling to think of that many that are better than him in terms of being a pure goalscorer. 2J threw the "never does it against the big teams" point at C. Ronaldo, I'd like to throw that at Owen. Have a think about it by the way, don't just denounce it as rubbish. He did win an FA Cup final pretty much on his own tbh, and that goal against Argentina in the WC in '98 was a massive game. Can't really remmeber how he played in most of his big games at Liverpool, but I've never seen him as a big game underachiever. That's about your whack, if you ask me. He was young and fearless against the Argies, and an unknown quantity. I could be wrong, but that's how I've always saw it. Always said he was an overrated player, not in one iota trying to be "controversial" or "clever". I thought the same as you Bluf, but Owen is a much better footballer than he's given credit for in my opinion. When we signed him for example, I didn't expect him to work as hard as he did, or show a level of control and awareness around him that he did. I was so used to seeing him for England where he stood hands on hips for the most part waiting for a Gerrard ball or for Sven to push the side higher up to close the gap between him and midfield that rarely came, I forgot how good a player he was. In his few games for us, he was often the best player in our team in my eyes, in short you could tell he was a class act above. Here, I'm only saying I think he's overrated. I think he's still a classy player, and people go on about his loyalty, but it doesn't matter with him, as he's a total professional and regardless of where his heart is he'll give 110% every time for any team that he's playing for. That is all that should matter. I, too, admit to being impressed with him when he signed for us, but I think everything needs to suit him, otherwise he goes missing. England proved this, but for whatever reason, the set up under Souness seemed to do get a lot out of him. That's why he's not one of the best for me, he can't fit into any team and do well it would need to be adapted for him. The best, for me, can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Owen's record at major international tournaments is pretty poor iirc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. People thought he was going to be 'it'. Maybe not the best player going, but certainly the best striker/goal scorer, not 'one of' the best, but thee best. (He's not one of the best either, for the record) He's not the best admittedly, but I'm really struggling to think of that many that are better than him in terms of being a pure goalscorer. 2J threw the "never does it against the big teams" point at C. Ronaldo, I'd like to throw that at Owen. Have a think about it by the way, don't just denounce it as rubbish. Goals for England. Argentina x3 Brazil x2 France Germany x3 Portugal For Liverpool. Man Utd x6 Chelsea x4 Arsenal x4 Newcastle x12 Celtic Celta Vigo Roma Porto B Munich Barcelona For Real Madrid. Dynamo Kiev Valencia Zaragoza x2 Betis Barcelona Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Marcelo Salas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Owen's fitness at major international tournaments is pretty poor iirc. FYP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. People thought he was going to be 'it'. Maybe not the best player going, but certainly the best striker/goal scorer, not 'one of' the best, but thee best. (He's not one of the best either, for the record) He's not the best admittedly, but I'm really struggling to think of that many that are better than him in terms of being a pure goalscorer. 2J threw the "never does it against the big teams" point at C. Ronaldo, I'd like to throw that at Owen. Have a think about it by the way, don't just denounce it as rubbish. Goals for England. Argentina x3 Brazil x2 France Germany x3 Portugal For Liverpool. Man Utd x6 Chelsea x4 Arsenal x4 Newcastle x12 Celtic Celta Vigo Roma Porto B Munich Barcelona For Real Madrid. Dynamo Kiev Valencia Zaragoza x2 Betis Barcelona Must have taken a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Agree with HTT on the Owen hype. Christ, he still lives off it to this day. People thought he was going to be 'it'. Maybe not the best player going, but certainly the best striker/goal scorer, not 'one of' the best, but thee best. (He's not one of the best either, for the record) He's not the best admittedly, but I'm really struggling to think of that many that are better than him in terms of being a pure goalscorer. 2J threw the "never does it against the big teams" point at C. Ronaldo, I'd like to throw that at Owen. Have a think about it by the way, don't just denounce it as rubbish. Goals for England. Argentina x3 Brazil x2 France Germany x3 Portugal For Liverpool. Man Utd x6 Chelsea x4 Arsenal x4 Newcastle x12 Celtic Celta Vigo Roma Porto B Munich Barcelona For Real Madrid. Dynamo Kiev Valencia Zaragoza x2 Betis Barcelona Must have taken a while. About 5 minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Marcelo Salas? Not for me, if we are talking of Inter players then I always loved watching Sosi (?), the South American. Signori too, he was some player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Luque Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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