Allardyce rules out Curtis Davies move

[Guest Knightrider]

you cannot get away with being able to simply 'hoof the ball away' in the premiership.

 

Bolton got away with it.

 

Apparently.

 

 

[Ronaldo]

yeah well not according to me

 

Hunt can at least control a football to an extent

[Baggio]

That's been our problem for years, no-one has ever done that, everyone has tried to fix the defence by signing better players than those already at the club in the hope because they are better players, the defence will be better. Doesn't work like that, indeed most good defences often contain one s**** player. Hunt is Bolton's, Ramage could be ours.

 

Of course you need someone to work on the defence and get them working as a unit, your point about having one shit defender is bollocks though as common sense tells you that 4 good players moulded into a good back line will be better than 3 good players and 1 shit one.

 

 

 

 

[ShearMagic]

Well Sol has kinda announced he wants to leave Pompey.

 

We should be going after him IMO

[Baggio]

you cannot get away with being able to simply 'hoof the ball away' in the premiership.

 

Bolton got away with it.

 

Apparently.

 

 

 

Both Ben Haim and Meite are decent on the ball, if you keep hoofing it away you're just inviting the other team to put pressure on you when it lands at their feet.

 

Most clubs look for defenders who are comfortable with the ball at their feet, it's a way of retaining posession and eliminates the need to hoof it away.

[Guest Knightrider]

That's been our problem for years, no-one has ever done that, everyone has tried to fix the defence by signing better players than those already at the club in the hope because they are better players, the defence will be better. Doesn't work like that, indeed most good defences often contain one s**** player. Hunt is Bolton's, Ramage could be ours.

 

Of course you need someone to work on the defence and get them working as a unit, your point about having one shit defender is bollocks though as common sense tells you that 4 good players moulded into a good back line will be better than 3 good players and 1 shit one.

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, but how many teams have 4 genuine top defenders in defence? That was my point, or rather, you don't need 4 top defenders playing in defence to have a good defence.

[Ronaldo]

Well Sol has kinda announced he wants to leave Pompey.

 

We should be going after him IMO

 

course we should, he'll want to come here also

[ohmelads]

That's the problem with a lot of posters on here, they judge a player by his ability or lack of and never consider anything outside of that, especially in the context of the collective team.

 

You can see where Freddy Shepherd got it from...

 

"Luque - Spanish international, lets sign him, he'll do the business, he's better than what we have so will improve the team"

 

Just look at some of the Curtis Davies comments.

 

"He's a defender, we don't have many, he's better than Ramage, lets sign him, he'll do the business"

 

 

Just as well we have a manager who understands all this. Hence "Steven Taylor is a very, very good prospect and to put Curtis Davies in there - both are in their early 20s - would be the wrong thing to do"

 

Restated: Someone who considers things outside of ability or lack of it.

 

You're not wrong, but I don't see what Ramage gives us on an individual or collective level.

 

He wasn't brought into the first team squad on merit like Taylor, he was brought in because of a major injury crisis, because we had nowhere else to turn. He was on the brink of a move to Hibernian or somewhere before he was drafted in, he was considered one of the many unsuccessful academy products.

 

He's only stayed in the first team squad since because we've been so short of defenders for a long time and suffered injuries left right and centre. When you're that low on numbers you consider him better than nothing. He's an honest lad on low wages who doesn't complain, so while we're threadbare in defence there's no point getting rid, but my guess is he'll be gone as soon as we've acquired decent defensive options (whenever that'll be).

[Guest Knightrider]

you cannot get away with being able to simply 'hoof the ball away' in the premiership.

 

Bolton got away with it.

 

Apparently.

 

 

 

Both Ben Haim and Meite are decent on the ball, if you keep hoofing it away you're just inviting the other team to put pressure on you when it lands at their feet.

 

And what about Hunt?

 

BTW my comments about Bolton were tongue in cheek and aimed more at the opinion that they are a hoof it long team.

 

 

[Baggio]

you cannot get away with being able to simply 'hoof the ball away' in the premiership.

 

Bolton got away with it.

 

Apparently.

 

 

 

Both Ben Haim and Meite are decent on the ball, if you keep hoofing it away you're just inviting the other team to put pressure on you when it lands at their feet.

 

And what about Hunt?

 

BTW my comments about Bolton were tongue in cheek and aimed more at the opinion that they are a hoof it long team.

 

 

 

What about him?

 

He's an awful player who most Bolton fans highlight as being the weak link in their defence, if they had a technically better player in that position perhaps they would have conceded less.

 

Didn't they concede more than us?

[toontownman]

Still not convinced by Carr either way. He is very clumsy defensively and gets skinned too easily.

 

He can be average or better alot of the time, but then lets himself down. Much like Bramble, but maybe not in such a comedy styling.

[Guest Knightrider]

That's the problem with a lot of posters on here, they judge a player by his ability or lack of and never consider anything outside of that, especially in the context of the collective team.

 

You can see where Freddy Shepherd got it from...

 

"Luque - Spanish international, lets sign him, he'll do the business, he's better than what we have so will improve the team"

 

Just look at some of the Curtis Davies comments.

 

"He's a defender, we don't have many, he's better than Ramage, lets sign him, he'll do the business"

 

 

Just as well we have a manager who understands all this. Hence "Steven Taylor is a very, very good prospect and to put Curtis Davies in there - both are in their early 20s - would be the wrong thing to do"

 

Restated: Someone who considers things outside of ability or lack of it.

 

You're not wrong, but I don't see what Ramage gives us on an individual or collective level.

 

He wasn't brought into the first team squad on merit like Taylor, he was brought in because of a major injury crisis, because we had nowhere else to turn. He was on the brink of a move to Hibernian or somewhere before he was drafted in, he was considered one of the many unsuccessful academy products.

 

He's only stayed in the first team squad since because we've been so short of defenders for a long time and suffered injuries left right and centre. When you're that low on numbers you consider him better than nothing.

 

Ideally, we'd peddle him or he'd never get anywhere near the first team because he isn't good enough, but that doesn't mean he can't do a job when called upon or rather Allardyce can't at least help his game because that would be absurd. He can do nothing for his ability because he has none and if you have none that's you screwed ability wise, but the basics of defending he can work on that area with him to a point where he can become solid and dependable when called upon, especially as part of a unit, despite his lack of ability. Didn't he do a solid and dependable job in Palermo and at home to Fenerbache where the defence were collective good more so than any individual? Yes he did and will do again when called upon and not because he himself has improved so much, but because the dynamics of the defence will - such as organisation, shape, discipline, tactics and concentration levels, which is what makes a defence above talent and ability or can compensate for any lack of it.

 

 

[Mick]

Still not convinced by Carr either way. He is very clumsy defensively and gets skinned too easily.

 

He can be average or better alot of the time, but then lets himself down. Much like Bramble, but maybe not in such a comedy styling.

 

Carr should only play if we've got nothing else for that position.

[Guest Knightrider]

you cannot get away with being able to simply 'hoof the ball away' in the premiership.

 

Bolton got away with it.

 

Apparently.

 

 

 

Both Ben Haim and Meite are decent on the ball, if you keep hoofing it away you're just inviting the other team to put pressure on you when it lands at their feet.

 

And what about Hunt?

 

BTW my comments about Bolton were tongue in cheek and aimed more at the opinion that they are a hoof it long team.

 

 

 

What about him?

 

He's an awful player who most Bolton fans highlight as being the weak link in their defence, if they had a technically better player in that position perhaps they would have conceded less.

 

Didn't they concede more than us?

 

They did, but they finished above us and were generally a lot stronger than us defensively.

 

Hunt is proof positive that even a player with zero talent or ability can be part of a reasonably successful defence if coached right and containing one or two good players in it, would you agree?

[Ronaldo]

to be honest we had a 'reasonably successful defence' two seasons ago.

 

we should have a lot better than that

[Baggio]

you cannot get away with being able to simply 'hoof the ball away' in the premiership.

 

Bolton got away with it.

 

Apparently.

 

 

 

Both Ben Haim and Meite are decent on the ball, if you keep hoofing it away you're just inviting the other team to put pressure on you when it lands at their feet.

 

And what about Hunt?

 

BTW my comments about Bolton were tongue in cheek and aimed more at the opinion that they are a hoof it long team.

 

 

 

What about him?

 

He's an awful player who most Bolton fans highlight as being the weak link in their defence, if they had a technically better player in that position perhaps they would have conceded less.

 

Didn't they concede more than us?

 

They did, but they finished above us and were generally a lot stronger than us defensively.

 

Hunt is proof positive that even a player with zero talent or ability can be part of a reasonably successful defence if coached right and containing one or two good players in it, would you agree?

 

Not really no, I see him as the weak link in a potentially good defence and having to rely on other defenders to cover his mistakes.

[Guest Knightrider]

Anyway my argument:

 

Good players don't necessarily make a good defence - correct

 

Good defences don't necessarily need players with ability playing in every position - correct

 

Ramage has done a solid and dependable job for us on more than one occasion - correct

 

Therefore it isn't nailed on that he can't do so again in a better organised and disciplined defence coached by a manager who knows what he's doing, when called upon as a squad player - correct.

 

I win.

 

I'm off.

 

Goodnight.

 

[Willow]

Surely we can just go for Baines now?

 

Good left back thats young, hungry and seems quite fast so could link up play well. Its the fee issue, we just really have no idea how much we have to spend. Sam metioned the price for Baines was too high didn't he? I may have answered my own question there but I don't see the great pitfalls of signing him for around £6m considering his age and england u21 place..

 

Eeh, I guess I'm just getting a little anxious like most here about the defensive situation...

 

 

[Cajun]

Surely we can just go for Baines now?

 

Good left back thats young, hungry and seems quite fast so could link up play well. Its the fee issue, we just really have no idea how much we have to spend. Sam metioned the price for Baines was too high didn't he? I may have answered my own question there but I don't see the great pitfalls of signing him for around £6m considering his age and england u21 place..

 

Eeh, I guess I'm just getting a little anxious like most here about the defensive situation...

 

 

 

Maybe Allardyce has the same motives in not going for Baines as he does for Davies? They are around the same age after all.

[Guest Emre05]

According to rumours today ON SPORTINGLIFE.com Wigan and Birmingham are after Abdoulaye Faye from Bolton for 1.5 million... Would anybody here take him ?? cheap enough fee, sam knows him, he could play in defence and in midfield... Cant be any worse than ramage..

He looks a strong powerful guy too

[Cajun]

According to rumours today ON SPORTINGLIFE.com Wigan and Birmingham are after Abdoulaye Faye from Bolton for 1.5 million... Would anybody here take him ?? cheap enough fee, sam knows him, he could play in defence and in midfield... Cant be any worse than ramage..

He looks a strong powerful guy too

 

For £1.5m yes.

[Skeletor]

Well Sol has kinda announced he wants to leave Pompey.

 

We should be going after him IMO

 

Correct opinion.

[Dave]

Campbell would be perfect.

 

Okay, he'd want high wages i'd imagine, but he's still a top defender. Strong, experienced and has forgotten more about defending than our lot know put together. He'd also be fantastic for the youngsters at the club.

[Slugsy]

Still not convinced by Carr either way. He is very clumsy defensively and gets skinned too easily.

 

He can be average or better alot of the time, but then lets himself down. Much like Bramble, but maybe not in such a comedy styling.

 

Carr should only play if we've got nothing else for that position.

 

This

[toptoon]

Campbell would be perfect.

 

Okay, he'd want high wages i'd imagine, but he's still a top defender. Strong, experienced and has forgotten more about defending than our lot know put together. He'd also be fantastic for the youngsters at the club.

 

100% agree