madras

Probably because he sees exactly what Shay sees. Oh come on we are not that bad, don't be mellow dramatic. We have the players to survive. But as is always with this board, its not a case of is the glass Half full or Empty, we've not even got a f***ing glass man. Most games are ticked off as loses, with people just piling more misery on if we lose. In every league season there are surprise results, Pompey 3-0 anyone? For all we know we could nick 6 points this week in two scrappy 1-0's, but we could also lose 4-0 in both and come out with 0 points. So why bother being all doom and gloom, why not try supporting the team? I've seen worse XI's than this do better, so there is no real reason to be getting suicidal. Even if we go down, at least we have a Football club, look at Leeds losing to Histon in the cup, seen more players come and go than you can remember, they might as well print shirt names on velcro. I think the fact that Harper hasn't signed the new contract by now is hugely significant considering Shay has virtually asked to leave. I like harper, but he's been happy to play back-up to Shay for years and if he decides to leave just when it looks like he's going to get his chance, then you have to seriously question his ambition and self belief. not if he goes to a prem club as first choice. I'm sure he's had plenty of chances to sign for Prem clubs in the past 10 years and he hasn't taken them. quite probably but if he moves to another prem club as first choice it hardly questions his ambition etc

Bobby Robson looked at both Balde and Boumsong as possible replacements for Woodgate. Indeed, Robson told Shepherd Boumsong wasn't worth it on a free, then Souness convinced Shepherd he was worth £8m. You couldn't make it up so he is saying that the chairman of the club should act on the advice of an ex manager rather than the current one, and you are agreeing with him ? haha, you couldn't make it up. I don't expect to see you accusing the chairman of the club interfering in transfers in future, having now said you think he should I think the point is more that you back the right manager. Or "Top Boss" if you prefer oh well, I don't think the club, or any club, deliberately appoint a manager they think will do a poor job. You've still got your unrealistic hat on today haven't you Most people who ask you a question on here must wear that unrealistic hat. Have you been in the finances thread yet? nope. Haven't read it. I'm sure it will be full of people obsessed with finding fault with Shepherd and telling us how you can be successful in football by spending nothing and not running up debts, just like manU, Arsenal and Liverpool do. again...for the nth time.....they make operating profits which mean debt is a viable way of financing. we don't. you know this but like the "more times in europe" stuff you use it to give an overview of their time as a whole instead of where we were and where we were going at the time they left. i'll ask again.....at which point do you think it is dodgy to keep on adding to the debts ? we have to borrow now, don't we ? To get away from the bottom of the league, and if we don't, then its "wasted" money ? Do you think we should carry on with what we have and hope to get clear, and carry on further for the next few years ? What do they do when the gates and revenue go down as a result of struggling ? How can you give such guarantees in football the likes of which you are looking for ? Competing at the top is all about investmen in players, its continuous investment, all the time. Don't you see this ? Do you think if Shepherd was chairman we would be sitting back and doing nothing ? They would be attempting to get away and quite right too. so....do you think we should just keep on racking up debt year on year ? (you see, i think thats what has got us to the position we are in) give me a straight answer, a "yes or no" if you will and i'll answer all your questions. it's been all one way so far.

Bobby Robson looked at both Balde and Boumsong as possible replacements for Woodgate. Indeed, Robson told Shepherd Boumsong wasn't worth it on a free, then Souness convinced Shepherd he was worth £8m. You couldn't make it up so he is saying that the chairman of the club should act on the advice of an ex manager rather than the current one, and you are agreeing with him ? haha, you couldn't make it up. I don't expect to see you accusing the chairman of the club interfering in transfers in future, having now said you think he should I think the point is more that you back the right manager. Or "Top Boss" if you prefer oh well, I don't think the club, or any club, deliberately appoint a manager they think will do a poor job. You've still got your unrealistic hat on today haven't you Most people who ask you a question on here must wear that unrealistic hat. Have you been in the finances thread yet? nope. Haven't read it. I'm sure it will be full of people obsessed with finding fault with Shepherd and telling us how you can be successful in football by spending nothing and not running up debts, just like manU, Arsenal and Liverpool do. again...for the nth time.....they make operating profits which mean debt is a viable way of financing. we don't. you know this but like the "more times in europe" stuff you use it to give an overview of their time as a whole instead of where we were and where we were going at the time they left. i'll ask again.....at which point do you think it is dodgy to keep on adding to the debts ?

http://www.rtvoost.nl/sport/?nid=92643 I can't work out whether that's in a different language or just something madras typed after a few beers. capitals in there man.......capitals ! (it's dutch innit ?)

Probably because he sees exactly what Shay sees. Oh come on we are not that bad, don't be mellow dramatic. We have the players to survive. But as is always with this board, its not a case of is the glass Half full or Empty, we've not even got a f***ing glass man. Most games are ticked off as loses, with people just piling more misery on if we lose. In every league season there are surprise results, Pompey 3-0 anyone? For all we know we could nick 6 points this week in two scrappy 1-0's, but we could also lose 4-0 in both and come out with 0 points. So why bother being all doom and gloom, why not try supporting the team? I've seen worse XI's than this do better, so there is no real reason to be getting suicidal. Even if we go down, at least we have a Football club, look at Leeds losing to Histon in the cup, seen more players come and go than you can remember, they might as well print shirt names on velcro. I think the fact that Harper hasn't signed the new contract by now is hugely significant considering Shay has virtually asked to leave. I like harper, but he's been happy to play back-up to Shay for years and if he decides to leave just when it looks like he's going to get his chance, then you have to seriously question his ambition and self belief. not if he goes to a prem club as first choice.

Why didn't he say that then? He preferred to lie to the fans, claim that Keegan (who he hired remember) could have any player he wanted, claim he was here to have fun and claim that the players the club were going to go after were players for the first team with Premiership and Champions League experience. I also have seen no signs of improvement in the squad in four transfer windows. I know I'm cherry picking, but do you not think the back four has improved in terms of personnel? Average number of goals conceded per game over the last five seasons. 04/05 > 1.5 05/06 > 1.1 06/07 > 1.2 07/08 > 1.7 08/09 > 1.7 all down to the defence........i've been screaming for years that our midfield neither creates or defends and good teams attack and defend as a team. the personnel we have in the back 4 now i'd take over those we had when we finished 3rd.

outstanding ignorance of mandiarse type proportions. mackems.gif Please tell us how many other managers have won 4 titles with 2 different clubs and 3 manager of the year awards ? BTW, the biggest c***s in NUFC's history are the people who ran the club down for over 30 years between the 1950's and 1992, and Mike Ashley is well on the way to matching their acheivements. I'm also pleased for you that you think Mike Ashleys lack of "trophy signings" has seen the club make such rapid progress You picked the wrong post to belittle NE5, after all he did name 5 other managers which make his point. Gullit left his team as FA Cup winners, in the top 3 in the league, and still in the European Cup. Even the scottish fuckwit had won the FA Cup and the League Cup. Allardyce was widely regarded as one of the most potentially up and coming managers, ready for the big job and a possible future England manager. Ignore this in the usual way though, if you don't then I'm sure others will. Dalglish was the most outstanding name of his ludicrous list and I picked it for that reason, I'm sure others will realise that. Feel free to tell me what I say is incorrect if it doesn't suit your opinion. I did have Dalglish's success in the back of my mind but he did anything but take us forward did he? Yes, we were a post away of winning the Cup with him, but other than that it was nowt but mid-table mediocrity. Shepherd played his part in that as well.... Guillit a "world class" manager? Do you honestly think he was "world class", ffs? If he was that good then why the f*ck did he undermine the biggest derby in England and drop our two best players? Would a "world class" manager try to sell Alan Shearer? Exactly! Look at all the shyte Guillit bought. F*cking awful. Allardyce's run was come to quite a hault by the time he left Bolton. And the way he went about his business at SJP really showed his true colors. Thank f*ck he didnt get that England job... #So what is your criteria for appointing managers ? Those who have won trophies, or those who have not ? Or is it just hindsight ? Preferably those who've won trophies. I admit Dalglish would be in that catagory but I guess it was one of those cases where it just didnt work out for him. But why us? Why didnt it? Was he allowed to do his job properly?.... But the only reason Sam was brought in was because Fred knew there was f*ck all to spend and Sam had been renound for working on a shoestring budget. Thats the only reason, imo, that he was brought in- because Shepherd knew the ship at NUFC was sinking. Why employ a manager of a team that were currently BOTTOM of the league? Souness was and always will be a shyte manager. I think everyone knew Souness was around a 4th choice appointment. If the old board had any sense then they would've 'relieved' SBR of his duties at the end of the 04/05 season and appointed someone like Houllier or Ranieri who had just been let go by their clubs. Its simple planning that make all the difference. I don't agree that it is "planning" or "timing", I think its just getting the right manager, of which only 3 can win a trophy per season, and appointing them is a lottery most of the time. Alex Ferguson and Arsene wenger were both appointed by their respective clubs during the season by the way, to emphasise its the choice that matters and not the timing. Agree about Souness, but quite a lot of people thought he would succeed and backed his buying and selling accordingly. Particularly you. wrong. You're mixing me up with someone like mandiarse, who supported the sale of, and still maintains selling Craig Bellamy for instance was the right thing to do It was. Unless you feel that players should be permitted to undemine the requests of a manager employed (in haste) by his chairman. Or feign injury? Or decide where he should play? I'm sure that you'll agree that the actions of no player should be allowed to undermine the running of a club? I know that Craig Bellamy played for a season and half with a knee injury that could have finished his career, and still gave more committment than the vast majority of players at the club. So I doubt he "feigned injury" in the way that was documented. I don't see anything wrong with a player trying to tell his manager what his best position, especially a manager who is deliberately trying to force a confrontation with the said player and give him an excuse for exerting discipline on him for no other reason than him being a bully and a control freak. Souness should have been sacked for assaulting Bellamy, a fellow employee of the club, on the training ground. History has shown that the disruptive influence at the club was the manager, the same as he was at Blackburn when he tried to break Dwight Yorkes leg on the training ground because he nutmegged him, and also forced out Cole and Dunne. His influence on the club ie NUFC, was also the reason the reason behind the fight on the pitch between Dyer and Bowyer, the seeds of which were sown by his over emphasis on developing and nursing a confrontational atmosphere within the club, an offshoot of his own personality. hasn't history actually shown that craig bellamy (very good player that he was) has been a disruptive influence most everywhere he's been ? he's influential and plays on the edge yes, but history has also shown a lot of managers want to sign him. as they all think they can change him.....which they don't.

the debt is owed to the person who owns the club as opposed to previously when the debt was owed to banks etc. one is a lot more risky than the other.

outstanding ignorance of mandiarse type proportions. mackems.gif Please tell us how many other managers have won 4 titles with 2 different clubs and 3 manager of the year awards ? BTW, the biggest c***s in NUFC's history are the people who ran the club down for over 30 years between the 1950's and 1992, and Mike Ashley is well on the way to matching their acheivements. I'm also pleased for you that you think Mike Ashleys lack of "trophy signings" has seen the club make such rapid progress You picked the wrong post to belittle NE5, after all he did name 5 other managers which make his point. Gullit left his team as FA Cup winners, in the top 3 in the league, and still in the European Cup. Even the scottish fuckwit had won the FA Cup and the League Cup. Allardyce was widely regarded as one of the most potentially up and coming managers, ready for the big job and a possible future England manager. Ignore this in the usual way though, if you don't then I'm sure others will. Dalglish was the most outstanding name of his ludicrous list and I picked it for that reason, I'm sure others will realise that. Feel free to tell me what I say is incorrect if it doesn't suit your opinion. I did have Dalglish's success in the back of my mind but he did anything but take us forward did he? Yes, we were a post away of winning the Cup with him, but other than that it was nowt but mid-table mediocrity. Shepherd played his part in that as well.... Guillit a "world class" manager? Do you honestly think he was "world class", ffs? If he was that good then why the f*ck did he undermine the biggest derby in England and drop our two best players? Would a "world class" manager try to sell Alan Shearer? Exactly! Look at all the shyte Guillit bought. F*cking awful. Allardyce's run was come to quite a hault by the time he left Bolton. And the way he went about his business at SJP really showed his true colors. Thank f*ck he didnt get that England job... #So what is your criteria for appointing managers ? Those who have won trophies, or those who have not ? Or is it just hindsight ? Preferably those who've won trophies. I admit Dalglish would be in that catagory but I guess it was one of those cases where it just didnt work out for him. But why us? Why didnt it? Was he allowed to do his job properly?.... But the only reason Sam was brought in was because Fred knew there was f*ck all to spend and Sam had been renound for working on a shoestring budget. Thats the only reason, imo, that he was brought in- because Shepherd knew the ship at NUFC was sinking. Why employ a manager of a team that were currently BOTTOM of the league? Souness was and always will be a shyte manager. I think everyone knew Souness was around a 4th choice appointment. If the old board had any sense then they would've 'relieved' SBR of his duties at the end of the 04/05 season and appointed someone like Houllier or Ranieri who had just been let go by their clubs. Its simple planning that make all the difference. I don't agree that it is "planning" or "timing", I think its just getting the right manager, of which only 3 can win a trophy per season, and appointing them is a lottery most of the time. Alex Ferguson and Arsene wenger were both appointed by their respective clubs during the season by the way, to emphasise its the choice that matters and not the timing. Agree about Souness, but quite a lot of people thought he would succeed and backed his buying and selling accordingly. Particularly you. wrong. You're mixing me up with someone like mandiarse, who supported the sale of, and still maintains selling Craig Bellamy for instance was the right thing to do It was. Unless you feel that players should be permitted to undemine the requests of a manager employed (in haste) by his chairman. Or feign injury? Or decide where he should play? I'm sure that you'll agree that the actions of no player should be allowed to undermine the running of a club? I know that Craig Bellamy played for a season and half with a knee injury that could have finished his career, and still gave more committment than the vast majority of players at the club. So I doubt he "feigned injury" in the way that was documented. I don't see anything wrong with a player trying to tell his manager what his best position, especially a manager who is deliberately trying to force a confrontation with the said player and give him an excuse for exerting discipline on him for no other reason than him being a bully and a control freak. Souness should have been sacked for assaulting Bellamy, a fellow employee of the club, on the training ground. History has shown that the disruptive influence at the club was the manager, the same as he was at Blackburn when he tried to break Dwight Yorkes leg on the training ground because he nutmegged him, and also forced out Cole and Dunne. His influence on the club ie NUFC, was also the reason the reason behind the fight on the pitch between Dyer and Bowyer, the seeds of which were sown by his over emphasis on developing and nursing a confrontational atmosphere within the club, an offshoot of his own personality. hasn't history actually shown that craig bellamy (very good player that he was) has been a disruptive influence most everywhere he's been ?

Not paying what debt? I'm comfortable not giving Mike Ashley his money back yet, yes. I don't expect his meagre £600m has him buying the Asda SmartPrice stuff just yet. We won't agree because we have differing views of the squad. You think Ashley is going to get his chequebook out and that we'll stay up, I think he won't and we'll go down. We'll see in May - I simply can't get my head round the amount of people with their heads in the sand. One look at the form guide and the fixture list (available at all good paying fanzine websites) should show you that relegation is more likely than not at this moment in time. From that point of view, unless he can find a top class manager happy to be let around by the hand by Dennis Wise (and a witch doctor who can fix up Oba and Beye right this second), yes, I'd rather take the risk of strengthening and I don't give two f***s if Ashley has to foot the bill because as owner, it'll be his fault and his responsibility. Fair enough. Although if we sign a couple of decent players this window (as has been hinted) will it chage your view at all? Not really. It's January 25th, signings are not looking likely and we're 2 points off 20th with a very difficult run-in. If we stay up I'm not going to praise him for saving us when he's the one who got us into this bother in the first place. If he pushes on in the summer with a real manager and funds, I might think about putting up with him even if I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. Sorry Wullie, but that's one of the most short sighted, narrow minded things I've ever read on here. He is, man. Not the only one but most certainly the main culprit - like Shepherd, the man pulling the strings has to take the blame. I know you like to defend him but when will you give up absolving him of blame? When we're lining up at Blackpool next season? I've never absolved him of blame, he's made some monumental f*** ups. Well then we agree. His monumental f*** ups have led us to where to we are now. If you think he has led us there you're being incredibly naive. We were well on the way before he even got involved. That's like blaming Ken Bates for Leeds being in League 1. I don't agree, I think he's done the majority of the damage and accelerated the slide (and it was already a slide, although we had finished 7th a year earlier, so by no means an unstoppable one). He's been here the same time as Lerner has at Villa and they were in a very similar state. We were in a horrendous state financially but he paid most of that off as soon as he got here so what else is there to look at in terms of what has done the damage? Aye he's paid it off which is something Lerner didn't have to do at Villa, amazing you can't see the difference between the state of the two clubs. All due to a few years of horrendus financial mismanagement. The fact is the rot set in long before Ashley arrived. Since Ashley came in we've also had Mort, Keegan & Llambias doing the day to day running of the club and until we know the full facts the three of them are potentially just as culpable as he is. Was having to pay the debts off due to financial mismanagement or due to Ashley not doing his homework? I accept that a certain amount of the debts had to be paid with his own money because we were operating at a loss but: a) the majority seems to have been the stadium loan, which is pure and simply Ashley not doing due diligence. That's his fault. and b) did he have to pay all the debts off in one whack? Couldn't he have just paid the agreed repayments rather than paying them all off, which is what Lerner started doing despite their very similar debts? I don't know the answer to that, you should know better than me. Re: the people at the top, Ashley hired them, so he has to carry the can. The bit in bold is over-exaggerated a lot more than it should be tbh, people go on as if he didn't even get a copy of the accounts before making the decision to purchase. The question that people neglect to ask is who tied the club into that change of ownership clause & why? The answer being to protect their investment despite the fact that it was going to potentially f*** any new investor over, regardless of whether they knew about it or not. The level of the debt & the structure of it is down to financial mismanagement without a doubt. So how did he miss the £70m debt? He didn't. So why is there no money to spend on avoiding relegation? Because the club is a loss making operation. so what? and thereby endeth the thread. His point is that other clubs are making losses as well and are still spending to ensure safety/push on for Europe as most reacently illustrated by Villa - why is that so stupid a point? What the three monkeys seem to be saying is that Ashley checked the books, noted the £70m debt and bought our club in the full knowledge he wouldn’t have enough money to fund some much need squad strengthening. Irresponsible doesn’t do it justice. alternativly we could have been 100mill in debt,quite possibly in the championship (imo thats where allardyce was headed) with owen,geremi etc's wages still to fund regardless of wethere we had them on the books or not.

You're right - relegation a year earlier wouldn't have made much difference overall. Even if someone else had kept us up do you honestly think as many STs/3 year deals would have been sold? The latter is probably moot given the number of renewals that won't be happening this summer. How many has been sold? I don't know the absolute figures but I think there would have been less without the Keegan factor. I think the 3 year deal would have been taken up by people wanting to save money and those experiencing that factor or a mixture of the two. As I said I think this summer will show the real level of confidence in the club. out of our dozen or so who used to go, about half are still going,all but 2 were packing in till fred left.

You're right - relegation a year earlier wouldn't have made much difference overall. Even if someone else had kept us up do you honestly think as many STs/3 year deals would have been sold? The latter is probably moot given the number of renewals that won't be happening this summer. altogether now..."we aren't the loyalsit football supporters, the world has ever had"

Not paying what debt? I'm comfortable not giving Mike Ashley his money back yet, yes. I don't expect his meagre £600m has him buying the Asda SmartPrice stuff just yet. We won't agree because we have differing views of the squad. You think Ashley is going to get his chequebook out and that we'll stay up, I think he won't and we'll go down. We'll see in May - I simply can't get my head round the amount of people with their heads in the sand. One look at the form guide and the fixture list (available at all good paying fanzine websites) should show you that relegation is more likely than not at this moment in time. From that point of view, unless he can find a top class manager happy to be let around by the hand by Dennis Wise (and a witch doctor who can fix up Oba and Beye right this second), yes, I'd rather take the risk of strengthening and I don't give two f***s if Ashley has to foot the bill because as owner, it'll be his fault and his responsibility. Fair enough. Although if we sign a couple of decent players this window (as has been hinted) will it chage your view at all? Not really. It's January 25th, signings are not looking likely and we're 2 points off 20th with a very difficult run-in. If we stay up I'm not going to praise him for saving us when he's the one who got us into this bother in the first place. If he pushes on in the summer with a real manager and funds, I might think about putting up with him even if I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. Sorry Wullie, but that's one of the most short sighted, narrow minded things I've ever read on here. He is, man. Not the only one but most certainly the main culprit - like Shepherd, the man pulling the strings has to take the blame. I know you like to defend him but when will you give up absolving him of blame? When we're lining up at Blackpool next season? I've never absolved him of blame, he's made some monumental f*** ups. Well then we agree. His monumental f*** ups have led us to where to we are now. If you think he has led us there you're being incredibly naive. We were well on the way before he even got involved. That's like blaming Ken Bates for Leeds being in League 1. I don't agree, I think he's done the majority of the damage and accelerated the slide (and it was already a slide, although we had finished 7th a year earlier, so by no means an unstoppable one). He's been here the same time as Lerner has at Villa and they were in a very similar state. We were in a horrendous state financially but he paid most of that off as soon as he got here so what else is there to look at in terms of what has done the damage? Aye he's paid it off which is something Lerner didn't have to do at Villa, amazing you can't see the difference between the state of the two clubs. All due to a few years of horrendus financial mismanagement. The fact is the rot set in long before Ashley arrived. Since Ashley came in we've also had Mort, Keegan & Llambias doing the day to day running of the club and until we know the full facts the three of them are potentially just as culpable as he is. Was having to pay the debts off due to financial mismanagement or due to Ashley not doing his homework? I accept that a certain amount of the debts had to be paid with his own money because we were operating at a loss but: a) the majority seems to have been the stadium loan, which is pure and simply Ashley not doing due diligence. That's his fault. and b) did he have to pay all the debts off in one whack? Couldn't he have just paid the agreed repayments rather than paying them all off, which is what Lerner started doing despite their very similar debts? I don't know the answer to that, you should know better than me. Re: the people at the top, Ashley hired them, so he has to carry the can. The bit in bold is over-exaggerated a lot more than it should be tbh, people go on as if he didn't even get a copy of the accounts before making the decision to purchase. The question that people neglect to ask is who tied the club into that change of ownership clause & why? The answer being to protect their investment despite the fact that it was going to potentially f*** any new investor over, regardless of whether they knew about it or not. The level of the debt & the structure of it is down to financial mismanagement without a doubt. So how did he miss the £70m debt? He didn't. So why is there no money to spend on avoiding relegation? Because the club is a loss making operation. so what? and thereby endeth the thread.

outstanding ignorance of mandiarse type proportions. mackems.gif Please tell us how many other managers have won 4 titles with 2 different clubs and 3 manager of the year awards ? BTW, the biggest c***s in NUFC's history are the people who ran the club down for over 30 years between the 1950's and 1992, and Mike Ashley is well on the way to matching their acheivements. I'm also pleased for you that you think Mike Ashleys lack of "trophy signings" has seen the club make such rapid progress You picked the wrong post to belittle NE5, after all he did name 5 other managers which make his point. Gullit left his team as FA Cup winners, in the top 3 in the league, and still in the European Cup. Even the scottish fuckwit had won the FA Cup and the League Cup. Allardyce was widely regarded as one of the most potentially up and coming managers, ready for the big job and a possible future England manager. Ignore this in the usual way though, if you don't then I'm sure others will. Dalglish was the most outstanding name of his ludicrous list and I picked it for that reason, I'm sure others will realise that. Feel free to tell me what I say is incorrect if it doesn't suit your opinion. I did have Dalglish's success in the back of my mind but he did anything but take us forward did he? Yes, we were a post away of winning the Cup with him, but other than that it was nowt but mid-table mediocrity. Shepherd played his part in that as well.... Guillit a "world class" manager? Do you honestly think he was "world class", ffs? If he was that good then why the f*ck did he undermine the biggest derby in England and drop our two best players? Would a "world class" manager try to sell Alan Shearer? Exactly! Look at all the shyte Guillit bought. F*cking awful. Allardyce's run was come to quite a hault by the time he left Bolton. And the way he went about his business at SJP really showed his true colors. Thank f*ck he didnt get that England job... #So what is your criteria for appointing managers ? Those who have won trophies, or those who have not ? Or is it just hindsight ? Preferably those who've won trophies. I admit Dalglish would be in that catagory but I guess it was one of those cases where it just didnt work out for him. But why us? Why didnt it? Was he allowed to do his job properly?.... But the only reason Sam was brought in was because Fred knew there was f*ck all to spend and Sam had been renound for working on a shoestring budget. Thats the only reason, imo, that he was brought in- because Shepherd knew the ship at NUFC was sinking. Why employ a manager of a team that were currently BOTTOM of the league? Souness was and always will be a shyte manager. I think everyone knew Souness was around a 4th choice appointment. If the old board had any sense then they would've 'relieved' SBR of his duties at the end of the 04/05 season and appointed someone like Houllier or Ranieri who had just been let go by their clubs. Its simple planning that make all the difference. I don't agree that it is "planning" or "timing", I think its just getting the right manager, of which only 3 can win a trophy per season, and appointing them is a lottery most of the time. Alex Ferguson and Arsene wenger were both appointed by their respective clubs during the season by the way, to emphasise its the choice that matters and not the timing. Agree about Souness, but quite a lot of people thought he would succeed and backed his buying and selling accordingly. it's not about getting in a manager who wins things,it's about getting in a manager who you think will improve things.....hands up who thought the day souness,roeder or allardyce wlaked in that improvement was on the way ?

outstanding ignorance of mandiarse type proportions. mackems.gif Please tell us how many other managers have won 4 titles with 2 different clubs and 3 manager of the year awards ? BTW, the biggest c***s in NUFC's history are the people who ran the club down for over 30 years between the 1950's and 1992, and Mike Ashley is well on the way to matching their acheivements. I'm also pleased for you that you think Mike Ashleys lack of "trophy signings" has seen the club make such rapid progress You picked the wrong post to belittle NE5, after all he did name 5 other managers which make his point. Gullit left his team as FA Cup winners, in the top 3 in the league, and still in the European Cup. Even the scottish fuckwit had won the FA Cup and the League Cup. Allardyce was widely regarded as one of the most potentially up and coming managers, ready for the big job and a possible future England manager. Ignore this in the usual way though, if you don't then I'm sure others will. Dalglish was the most outstanding name of his ludicrous list and I picked it for that reason, I'm sure others will realise that. Feel free to tell me what I say is incorrect if it doesn't suit your opinion. I did have Dalglish's success in the back of my mind but he did anything but take us forward did he? Yes, we were a post away of winning the Cup with him, but other than that it was nowt but mid-table mediocrity. Shepherd played his part in that as well.... Guillit a "world class" manager? Do you honestly think he was "world class", ffs? If he was that good then why the f*ck did he undermine the biggest derby in England and drop our two best players? Would a "world class" manager try to sell Alan Shearer? Exactly! Look at all the shyte Guillit bought. F*cking awful. Allardyce's run was come to quite a hault by the time he left Bolton. And the way he went about his business at SJP really showed his true colors. Thank f*ck he didnt get that England job... #So what is your criteria for appointing managers ? Those who have won trophies, or those who have not ? Or is it just hindsight ? Preferably those who've won trophies. I admit Dalglish would be in that catagory but I guess it was one of those cases where it just didnt work out for him. But why us? Why didnt it? Was he allowed to do his job properly?.... But the only reason Sam was brought in was because Fred knew there was f*ck all to spend and Sam had been renound for working on a shoestring budget. Thats the only reason, imo, that he was brought in- because Shepherd knew the ship at NUFC was sinking. Why employ a manager of a team that were currently BOTTOM of the league? Souness was and always will be a shyte manager. I think everyone knew Souness was around a 4th choice appointment. If the old board had any sense then they would've 'relieved' SBR of his duties at the end of the 04/05 season and appointed someone like Houllier or Ranieri who had just been let go by their clubs. Its simple planning that make all the difference. I don't agree that it is "planning" or "timing", I think its just getting the right manager, of which only 3 can win a trophy per season, and appointing them is a lottery most of the time. Alex Ferguson and Arsene wenger were both appointed by their respective clubs during the season by the way, to emphasise its the choice that matters and not the timing. Agree about Souness, but quite a lot of people thought he would succeed and backed his buying and selling accordingly. it's not just a "winning manager" it's a manager whom when he joins you get the inmpression that he'll improve us......hands up who thought that with souness,roeder or allardyce. ?

At least I'll have a club to support. unlike decades of your good old days pre-`1991 when the club almost folded due to decades of it being run like the way your man Mike has run it so far. Next on the agenda, is Selling our best players to balance the books, until the Halls and Shepherd saved it, and the likes of you were attracted back to pumpng money into the club again Still, I'm sure that your man Mike has improved the club on the pitch from being regular qualifiiers for europe, more time than evey everybody but 4 other clubs in fact, so then........do you keep borrowing from the banks until you are succesful or bankrupt, whichever comes first ? at which point do you think it would be dangerous to continue borrowing as i think we reached that point ? I've answered you, I don't think the clubs intention is to borrow until it is bankrupt. Mike Ashley might well be running the club down and heading the way of Leeds though. no you haven't answered me (well you have but it was a bit like answering "green" when asked how many are in a dozen ?)......how long do you keep on borrowing and building up debt ? i gave my answer a page or 2 ago

Robson was poor in the transfer market with most of the better players in his team coming here before he did. I'll add Acuna, Bernard & Distin to the good signings list, but the amount of money blown on players like Cort, Bassedas, Viana, Bramble, Ambrose, Butt & Carr was scary. Milner, N'Zogbia. And Gallacher did the job he was brought in for. Agree with the general point, though. was helder one of his aswell ?

At least I'll have a club to support. unlike decades of your good old days pre-`1991 when the club almost folded due to decades of it being run like the way your man Mike has run it so far. Next on the agenda, is Selling our best players to balance the books, until the Halls and Shepherd saved it, and the likes of you were attracted back to pumpng money into the club again Still, I'm sure that your man Mike has improved the club on the pitch from being regular qualifiiers for europe, more time than evey everybody but 4 other clubs in fact, so then........do you keep borrowing from the banks until you are succesful or bankrupt, whichever comes first ? at which point do you think it would be dangerous to continue borrowing as i think we reached that point ?

Dear Fred, How long were you prepared to go on borrowing ? and do you realise what happens when the banks wont lend you anymore ? Yours Madras

unless beckaham doesn't return to LA.

You said we limited our search to Spain, if you didn't actually mean that then how was I to know? I did mean it. I just omitted the bit about the serious money. We don’t know the details of what has happened to our club, and probably never will. We have to work with broad brush strokes. Cheers for the chat lads, it’s been largely abusive but not a complete waste of time. You faith in Ashley is largely groundless, but hey that’s the nature of faith isn’t it. it's not so much faith in ashleys as a realisation that the position we are in is not all down to him.

I meant "stupid" spending really - I don't honestly know how the what I think of as over moderate spending last summer or the reluctance now fits in with those bids you mention which showed exactly what I wanted - reasonable but neither excessive or inadequate. I think they show that he was willing to invest in the summer but only on the players that fit in with his system and policy which provide some form of safefty net in light of the precarious financial situation, in my opinion he realised the absolute importance of making sure whatever money spent was spent as wisely as possilbe. Ive maintained throughtout this thread that these account sheets shouldnt excuse him from not spending and going on a Bolton style budget but they highlight the importance of how he spends his money. If Milner hadnt gone, or if we actually did buy Schweinsteiger we wouldnt be having this conversation. Thats how flimsy this argument actually is. Signed for Villa. Still at Bayern Munich. Is there anything that will shake your faith in the Good Lord Ashley? Selling Given and Harper this month? Getting relegated? Playing in red and white? Your logic is inpenetrable mate, only becasue its so crap. f*** the debts Ashley you tit, spend the f***ing money. who cares if it puts us into adminastration should it go wrong. If you cant see that as a club werent in a position to spend £100m on players even if we wanted to then thats not my problem, the facts and explainations are riddled throughout this thread. The figure I put forward was £25m. and where was this £25mill to come from ? Out of the £600m Mike has in the bank, assuming he wasn’t wiling to sell his house to pay for a decent left back. is it your money ? should you tell someone where to put there money when they've already put quite a bit your way ?

I meant "stupid" spending really - I don't honestly know how the what I think of as over moderate spending last summer or the reluctance now fits in with those bids you mention which showed exactly what I wanted - reasonable but neither excessive or inadequate. I think they show that he was willing to invest in the summer but only on the players that fit in with his system and policy which provide some form of safefty net in light of the precarious financial situation, in my opinion he realised the absolute importance of making sure whatever money spent was spent as wisely as possilbe. Ive maintained throughtout this thread that these account sheets shouldnt excuse him from not spending and going on a Bolton style budget but they highlight the importance of how he spends his money. If Milner hadnt gone, or if we actually did buy Schweinsteiger we wouldnt be having this conversation. Thats how flimsy this argument actually is. Signed for Villa. Still at Bayern Munich. Is there anything that will shake your faith in the Good Lord Ashley? Selling Given and Harper this month? Getting relegated? Playing in red and white? Your logic is inpenetrable mate, only becasue its so crap. f*** the debts Ashley you tit, spend the f***ing money. who cares if it puts us into adminastration should it go wrong. If you cant see that as a club werent in a position to spend £100m on players even if we wanted to then thats not my problem, the facts and explainations are riddled throughout this thread. The figure I put forward was £25m. and where was this £25mill to come from ? How do other clubs buy players? Genuine question, I know nowt about finance but I know Liverpool and Man Utd are swimming in debt but still spend big money on players. Why have the administrators not been called in there? they have operating profit, makes it easier to finance

I meant "stupid" spending really - I don't honestly know how the what I think of as over moderate spending last summer or the reluctance now fits in with those bids you mention which showed exactly what I wanted - reasonable but neither excessive or inadequate. I think they show that he was willing to invest in the summer but only on the players that fit in with his system and policy which provide some form of safefty net in light of the precarious financial situation, in my opinion he realised the absolute importance of making sure whatever money spent was spent as wisely as possilbe. Ive maintained throughtout this thread that these account sheets shouldnt excuse him from not spending and going on a Bolton style budget but they highlight the importance of how he spends his money. If Milner hadnt gone, or if we actually did buy Schweinsteiger we wouldnt be having this conversation. Thats how flimsy this argument actually is. Signed for Villa. Still at Bayern Munich. Is there anything that will shake your faith in the Good Lord Ashley? Selling Given and Harper this month? Getting relegated? Playing in red and white? Your logic is inpenetrable mate, only becasue its so crap. f*** the debts Ashley you tit, spend the f***ing money. who cares if it puts us into adminastration should it go wrong. If you cant see that as a club werent in a position to spend £100m on players even if we wanted to then thats not my problem, the facts and explainations are riddled throughout this thread. The figure I put forward was £25m. and where was this £25mill to come from ?

At the minute we go and watch a match in hope that we'll win and move up the league. Once you're relegated you just go through the motions. I don't know how old you are, if you're old enough to remember when Rob Lee scored against Chelsea in the FA Cup semi-final, it's the opposite to that. the first season is going through the motions.after that it's reality and that as someone old enough to have went through both....suffered is too harsh a word for it.