madras

I say its the endless running with his head down until he runs into a defender loses posession and the whole team gets caught on the counter. Or maybe the going to sleep at leftback costing goals regardless of his natural position. He doesn`t score many and for some reason like the rest of the team can`t take a corner or cross spectaculary. If we get good money I won`t mind at all. But again, that can be worked on and should of been worked on (Like it was with Ronaldo). I dont think he's had decent run where he's been in the position to score many goals. He's only had one full (ish) season to judge him from and that was in 2006, where he scored 5 goals, for a 20 year old winger in his fisrt season that isnt bad. The season after, he finds himself on the bench - behind Duff. I still havent heard anything fundamentally wrong with his game that will forever be a flaw to him, like a lack of pace (like Milner) or a severe lack of footballing intelligence (like Martins). the fundamental flaw in his game is that he isn't as good as some seem to think. for all you talk about a fundamental flaw you must also think he doesn't have any particularly outstanding qualities either. theres as much chance making a great player out of him through "working on things" as there is with milner. the comparisson with ronaldo is embarasssing. So you cant name one? I dont think he's amazing, i dont think he's anywhere near the same ability as Ronaldo but the comparison is valid. I think he has very good abilty on the ball and has a quality which not many players have and thats the ability to go past players with relative ease, couple that with better decision making and you have a very very good player. Do you think that ronaldo would be the player he is if he experinced the same path as Zog? The example with Milner is invalid on one basis and that is that Milner didnt have the pace to succeed in his position, he was also a terrible crosser which menat his lack of pace was magnified. John robertson is supposed to be a great crossing coahc at Villa, it'll be interesting to see if he can turn Milner into a better player and make up for his lack of pace. probably as a player with that talent would always have ended up at a top club. i've said often enough in this thread that he has no nouse,no footballing brain and i don't think that can be "worked on". he may improve but never enough for him to be anywhere near the player some think he is. With such a subjective question i suppose i cant tell you you're wrong to believe that, but i think you're wrong. Like i say, you think knowing when to pass and when to dribble is unteachable, i say players like Adebayor, Ronaldo, Henry, Terry, J.Cole, Fabregas have all learnt when to pass the ball etc. Henry is a perfect example of a player who had brilliant raw talent but was no way the player he was before he came to Arsenal and learnt to make better dcecisions, despite having ooodles of experience under his belt. Theres a reason why Arsenal are reportedly sniffing around Martins and Zog... henry didn't suit italian football,same as bergkamp. did you see henry for monaco in the uefa cup up here ? even then you could see how good he could be in a way that i've never saw n'zogbia. n'zogbia is good,can be better,but don't mention him in the same bracket as ronaldo or henry even for sake of example.

tell me about it.

i think i am £2 up.

I say its the endless running with his head down until he runs into a defender loses posession and the whole team gets caught on the counter. Or maybe the going to sleep at leftback costing goals regardless of his natural position. He doesn`t score many and for some reason like the rest of the team can`t take a corner or cross spectaculary. If we get good money I won`t mind at all. Agree with this. The only problem with selling him is that the money might not be left in the club. I'd rather have an asset on the field than in the pocket of Mike Ashley. ashley should know his asset is worth more in the prem than the championship.

got leicester in a double with darlo. villareal,kiev (both lay) and munich(back) was the other bet.

1 bet up,1 down ath the moment.

I say its the endless running with his head down until he runs into a defender loses posession and the whole team gets caught on the counter. Or maybe the going to sleep at leftback costing goals regardless of his natural position. He doesn`t score many and for some reason like the rest of the team can`t take a corner or cross spectaculary. If we get good money I won`t mind at all. But again, that can be worked on and should of been worked on (Like it was with Ronaldo). I dont think he's had decent run where he's been in the position to score many goals. He's only had one full (ish) season to judge him from and that was in 2006, where he scored 5 goals, for a 20 year old winger in his fisrt season that isnt bad. The season after, he finds himself on the bench - behind Duff. I still havent heard anything fundamentally wrong with his game that will forever be a flaw to him, like a lack of pace (like Milner) or a severe lack of footballing intelligence (like Martins). the fundamental flaw in his game is that he isn't as good as some seem to think. for all you talk about a fundamental flaw you must also think he doesn't have any particularly outstanding qualities either. theres as much chance making a great player out of him through "working on things" as there is with milner. the comparisson with ronaldo is embarasssing. So you cant name one? I dont think he's amazing, i dont think he's anywhere near the same ability as Ronaldo but the comparison is valid. I think he has very good abilty on the ball and has a quality which not many players have and thats the ability to go past players with relative ease, couple that with better decision making and you have a very very good player. Do you think that ronaldo would be the player he is if he experinced the same path as Zog? The example with Milner is invalid on one basis and that is that Milner didnt have the pace to succeed in his position, he was also a terrible crosser which menat his lack of pace was magnified. John robertson is supposed to be a great crossing coahc at Villa, it'll be interesting to see if he can turn Milner into a better player and make up for his lack of pace. probably as a player with that talent would always have ended up at a top club. i've said often enough in this thread that he has no nouse,no footballing brain and i don't think that can be "worked on". he may improve but never enough for him to be anywhere near the player some think he is.

fucking darlington

I say its the endless running with his head down until he runs into a defender loses posession and the whole team gets caught on the counter. Or maybe the going to sleep at leftback costing goals regardless of his natural position. He doesn`t score many and for some reason like the rest of the team can`t take a corner or cross spectaculary. If we get good money I won`t mind at all. Agree with this. And if that money doesn't get reinvested? I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest it will be. I'd rather hang on to the first team squad we've got right now than watch decent assets get hived off tbh. its aposition in which we have strngth though and it does seem like gutierrez's stronger side. like every player at every club, he'll have a price. There is strength until we have an injury or two. Yes like every player he'll have a price but my real point is people are getting excited about doing "good business" for Zoggy. Its only "good business" if the squad sees the benefit by reinvestment of the funds. I'm not convinced that we have that situation going on here right now - despite what JFK may be saying. he's one of the few we'd get decent cash for without weakening the first 11.

I say its the endless running with his head down until he runs into a defender loses posession and the whole team gets caught on the counter. Or maybe the going to sleep at leftback costing goals regardless of his natural position. He doesn`t score many and for some reason like the rest of the team can`t take a corner or cross spectaculary. If we get good money I won`t mind at all. Agree with this. And if that money doesn't get reinvested? I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest it will be. I'd rather hang on to the first team squad we've got right now than watch decent assets get hived off tbh. its aposition in which we have strngth though and it does seem like gutierrez's stronger side. like every player at every club, he'll have a price.

I say its the endless running with his head down until he runs into a defender loses posession and the whole team gets caught on the counter. Or maybe the going to sleep at leftback costing goals regardless of his natural position. He doesn`t score many and for some reason like the rest of the team can`t take a corner or cross spectaculary. If we get good money I won`t mind at all. But again, that can be worked on and should of been worked on (Like it was with Ronaldo). I dont think he's had decent run where he's been in the position to score many goals. He's only had one full (ish) season to judge him from and that was in 2006, where he scored 5 goals, for a 20 year old winger in his fisrt season that isnt bad. The season after, he finds himself on the bench - behind Duff. I still havent heard anything fundamentally wrong with his game that will forever be a flaw to him, like a lack of pace (like Milner) or a severe lack of footballing intelligence (like Martins). the fundamental flaw in his game is that he isn't as good as some seem to think. for all you talk about a fundamental flaw you must also think he doesn't have any particularly outstanding qualities either. theres as much chance making a great player out of him through "working on things" as there is with milner. the comparisson with ronaldo is embarasssing.

he would say that...wouldn't he. Hasn't disputed the Enrique rumours. thoughthe said none of those involved in the chelsea would be going anywhere

he would say that...wouldn't he.

search function still not working for me.

or it could mean he'd get more for a player who wnats away so he can buy a better standard of player.

That's the problem with the "squad" generally today, we have 1 decent first choice player for a position, but very little backup. Allardyce addressed those "problems in the squad" the following season spending substantially more than £5m (I assume you mean the defence) and we subsequently went on to concede twice as many goals - in no small part due to the midfield being weak. I don't think you and I are gonna disagree much on this tbh, but regards the defence. Allardyce bought a CB for <3m and one for free, and that's exactly what they looked like. I'd say he got his money's worth for those 2. Beye is a good buy and i think Ricky is a decent and promising defender. I think BSA thought he was addressing the MidF with Barton and Smith, Barton i could understand (BSA was unlucky with him tbf), Smith was a mystery in my eyes. I mostly agree, but I didn't want to take this into a discussion about Allardyce, my point was that 1) it's not at all easy to improve a defence weak in all departments by spending £5m on it and 2) sometimes you can do more to improve your defence by improving your midfielders/attackers than you can by improving your defenders (I'd argue it's only really worth having quality defenders after you've got the other parts of the team sorted, but that's even further OT for this thread). That last point is interesting. I've heard a couple of posters say something similar and yet 'conventional wisdom' always seems to be that you build from the back. Not saying Alan Hansen is an authority but he says 'If you haven't got a defence you haven't got much.' You always hear pundits trotting out a similar line. Just cause they're on TV doesn't make them right but i genuinely want to know if you think differently and why cause i'm genuinely interested. we had a defence of hughes,griffin,o'brien,bramble,dabizas etc. not one great defender there but it worked because of the organization and the work done defending by the whole team. I'm interested in the notion that it's not worth buying good defenders unless you have good attackers first. When clubs come up, they've got to build from the back shirley?!? Forwards cost more and if you can get a haof decent defence together you're always in tha game. I'm fully aware that if you don't score you'll go down but i want to know more about the notion of 'building from the front.' It's AntiHansenism. it's always worth buying better players but plenty of times good players are no answer to organisation. i wouldn't prioritise which positions,you can only do it theoretically as in...we desperately need a right midfielder but we have a chance at a quality left midfielder for example.

That's the problem with the "squad" generally today, we have 1 decent first choice player for a position, but very little backup. Allardyce addressed those "problems in the squad" the following season spending substantially more than £5m (I assume you mean the defence) and we subsequently went on to concede twice as many goals - in no small part due to the midfield being weak. I don't think you and I are gonna disagree much on this tbh, but regards the defence. Allardyce bought a CB for <3m and one for free, and that's exactly what they looked like. I'd say he got his money's worth for those 2. Beye is a good buy and i think Ricky is a decent and promising defender. I think BSA thought he was addressing the MidF with Barton and Smith, Barton i could understand (BSA was unlucky with him tbf), Smith was a mystery in my eyes. BSA wasn't unlucky with barton. he knew exactly what he was buyong and if he bought him purely because of his on-field stuff ignoring the players wider life then BSA was a bigger fool than i thought. Barton broke a bone in preseason which i think affected his form. That's unlucky. I didn't know Barton was gonna spark off at some McDonalds and neither did BSA. I actually thought he'd have the brains to stay out of it. I was wrong there. no problem with him on the pitch. if it was that alone he is defintly a player to have based on his citeh form when we signed him. however you are in a small minority if you thought him kicking off again was unlikely. As i said, i was wrong. you can't do that on here. you have to twist and squirm and defend your view blindly no matter what,dodge questions,change the subject,derail the argument on to minutiae of the tiniest detail. That is not the road to emancipation my brother.... killjoy.

That's the problem with the "squad" generally today, we have 1 decent first choice player for a position, but very little backup. Allardyce addressed those "problems in the squad" the following season spending substantially more than £5m (I assume you mean the defence) and we subsequently went on to concede twice as many goals - in no small part due to the midfield being weak. I don't think you and I are gonna disagree much on this tbh, but regards the defence. Allardyce bought a CB for <3m and one for free, and that's exactly what they looked like. I'd say he got his money's worth for those 2. Beye is a good buy and i think Ricky is a decent and promising defender. I think BSA thought he was addressing the MidF with Barton and Smith, Barton i could understand (BSA was unlucky with him tbf), Smith was a mystery in my eyes. I mostly agree, but I didn't want to take this into a discussion about Allardyce, my point was that 1) it's not at all easy to improve a defence weak in all departments by spending £5m on it and 2) sometimes you can do more to improve your defence by improving your midfielders/attackers than you can by improving your defenders (I'd argue it's only really worth having quality defenders after you've got the other parts of the team sorted, but that's even further OT for this thread). That last point is interesting. I've heard a couple of posters say something similar and yet 'conventional wisdom' always seems to be that you build from the back. Not saying Alan Hansen is an authority but he says 'If you haven't got a defence you haven't got much.' You always hear pundits trotting out a similar line. Just cause they're on TV doesn't make them right but i genuinely want to know if you think differently and why cause i'm genuinely interested. we had a defence of hughes,griffin,o'brien,bramble,dabizas etc. not one great defender there but it worked because of the organization and the work done defending by the whole team.

That's the problem with the "squad" generally today, we have 1 decent first choice player for a position, but very little backup. Allardyce addressed those "problems in the squad" the following season spending substantially more than £5m (I assume you mean the defence) and we subsequently went on to concede twice as many goals - in no small part due to the midfield being weak. I don't think you and I are gonna disagree much on this tbh, but regards the defence. Allardyce bought a CB for <3m and one for free, and that's exactly what they looked like. I'd say he got his money's worth for those 2. Beye is a good buy and i think Ricky is a decent and promising defender. I think BSA thought he was addressing the MidF with Barton and Smith, Barton i could understand (BSA was unlucky with him tbf), Smith was a mystery in my eyes. BSA wasn't unlucky with barton. he knew exactly what he was buyong and if he bought him purely because of his on-field stuff ignoring the players wider life then BSA was a bigger fool than i thought. Barton broke a bone in preseason which i think affected his form. That's unlucky. I didn't know Barton was gonna spark off at some McDonalds and neither did BSA. I actually thought he'd have the brains to stay out of it. I was wrong there. no problem with him on the pitch. if it was that alone he is defintly a player to have based on his citeh form when we signed him. however you are in a small minority if you thought him kicking off again was unlikely. As i said, i was wrong. you can't do that on here. you have to twist and squirm and defend your view blindly no matter what,dodge questions,change the subject,derail the argument on to minutiae of the tiniest detail.

That's the problem with the "squad" generally today, we have 1 decent first choice player for a position, but very little backup. Allardyce addressed those "problems in the squad" the following season spending substantially more than £5m (I assume you mean the defence) and we subsequently went on to concede twice as many goals - in no small part due to the midfield being weak. I don't think you and I are gonna disagree much on this tbh, but regards the defence. Allardyce bought a CB for <3m and one for free, and that's exactly what they looked like. I'd say he got his money's worth for those 2. Beye is a good buy and i think Ricky is a decent and promising defender. I think BSA thought he was addressing the MidF with Barton and Smith, Barton i could understand (BSA was unlucky with him tbf), Smith was a mystery in my eyes. BSA wasn't unlucky with barton. he knew exactly what he was buyong and if he bought him purely because of his on-field stuff ignoring the players wider life then BSA was a bigger fool than i thought. Barton broke a bone in preseason which i think affected his form. That's unlucky. I didn't know Barton was gonna spark off at some McDonalds and neither did BSA. I actually thought he'd have the brains to stay out of it. I was wrong there. no problem with him on the pitch. if it was that alone he is defintly a player to have based on his citeh form when we signed him. however you are in a small minority if you thought him kicking off again was unlikely.

That's the problem with the "squad" generally today, we have 1 decent first choice player for a position, but very little backup. Allardyce addressed those "problems in the squad" the following season spending substantially more than £5m (I assume you mean the defence) and we subsequently went on to concede twice as many goals - in no small part due to the midfield being weak. I don't think you and I are gonna disagree much on this tbh, but regards the defence. Allardyce bought a CB for <3m and one for free, and that's exactly what they looked like. I'd say he got his money's worth for those 2. Beye is a good buy and i think Ricky is a decent and promising defender. I think BSA thought he was addressing the MidF with Barton and Smith, Barton i could understand (BSA was unlucky with him tbf), Smith was a mystery in my eyes. BSA wasn't unlucky with barton. he knew exactly what he was buyong and if he bought him purely because of his on-field stuff ignoring the players wider life then BSA was a bigger fool than i thought.

N'Zogbia wanted away long before KK arrived though, the rot set in a long time prior to that. I can't blame him for being unhappy - the irony is that often the same people who criticize Harper for not going will criticize Charlie for not wanting to sit on the bench. The idea that Duff wants to play for NUFC is absolutely ridiculous. The snivelling little coward. wanted away sooo much he signed a new contract under allardyce didn't he ?

Why some people expect a player who has been totally shafted at NUFC to be grinning and smiling all the time is beyond me. I'm miserable as f*** just watching Damien Duff, never mind sitting on the bench at his expense. don't want him grinning and smiling,just showing the same application as others who haven't got things their own way.

So nothing fundamentally wrong with his game, all thing which can be worked on, Ronaldo had some similar problems in his first year but was given the environment and coaching to iron out those weaknesses. I see no reason why Zog cant solve these problems, hes eternally confident in his abilty and always looking to attack. i see it the other way around. technique etc can be worked on. nouse,finding and using space,picking the right,simple pass etc is not so easily taught. he has the raw ball skill type talent but is severly lacking in the other major areas. How do you explain Ronaldo's transformation from ball carrying antelope to the player he is today? With his decision making and less ball carrying and creativity. I see a lot of similarities between present day Zog and 18 year old Ronaldo. What areas do you think that Zog severly lacks in that cant be worked on to make him the player he could be? Assuming LW is his strongest position. experience. ronaldo learns from experience,n'zogbia doesn't. Exactly, because he hasn't had any. Over 100 games like Disclaimer: According to wiki Half of those before Duff arrived and those since include sub appearances, central midfield, left back, even right wing on occasions, back and forth from one to the other. Young players just don't develop like that. You can't tell me that the Charles N'Zogbia who skinned four mackem players in the derby before slotting home or the one who made Brad Friedel look like a total clown would have developed exactly the same (i.e. not at all) if we hadn't bought Duff. He's gone backwards and the club is to blame. Total and utter mismanagement. right enough. last thing we should do is buy players for positions in which we only have one player,an experienced versatile international at that. some times young starlets don't develop the way you'd think. this is one such case.

The multiple different managers and coaches probably havent helped either. I know that doesnt absolve him completely but consitency in the coaching and management would have helped some probably the for reason milner aswell then,taylor also,and duff as he was a good player till he came here. Milner and Taylor arent as technically proficient as he is, Milner is fundamanetally flawed as a player lacking pace and the ability to cross and Taylor for me has no excuse as he's played 100 games in predominantly his main position and has had plenty of oppurtunity to defend. Zog has played all over and has the wind knocked out of him by having inferior players played in front of him. Taylor and Mailner have benefitted from the english bias. n'zogbia is also fundamentally flawed as he little or no reading of the game.