Wullie

The club's financial position is incredibly strong compared to most of the clubs we are (supposed to be) competing with.

Fucking hell Ian, not again. You really believe the club is in financial trouble don't you? The figures don't bear you out. Read them, instead of swallowing the club's rhetoric.

That's a really excellent piece.

And you've ignored a million times that our form was worse when Europe was on a three month break.

We came second in the group because we played a weakened team for so long.

We never played a weakened team in Europe Brett? That is utter nonsense. Go and look at the teams that played away at Maritimo and Bordeaux.

Should have no bother pumping this lot given all that juicy preparation time we've had.

Yep. So massive cash goes out even for players that are relatively cheap compared to everyone else's outgoings and little trickles in. The end result is the same so they don't lose out long term but it suits their agenda perfectly because they can successfully argue that we've spent all our money and have fuck all left.

Exactly but you've got it backwards. Ours aren't. We insist on paying up front. Mental isn't it?

I'm not talking about how much money the club has because that's not how we should be doing business. Every business in the known universe operates on paying for things in instalments and every business operates based on future cash (especially when it's guaranteed) yet we think we're so clever but it seriously impacts on our ability to buy players. Do you only buy things if you've got the money there and then?

How many times? It's guaranteed so all the other clubs are treating it as such. Why the hell wouldn't you? They're all sensible and pay in instalments so makes absolutely no difference to them when they get it.

Funny reading the start of this thread. "How fucking much?!" "82% increase?! Christ!" Yep, and some people on here will still swear blind we haven't got two pennies to rub together.

I'm not even going to the first game, a few years ago that would have devastated me. Couldn't give a fuck.

Agreed Dave. They win both ways. My 500 quid is nowt to him on its own, and he'd find it hilarious that people were walking away from something they love because of him. He wins both ways but only one ends up in me walking round Eldon Square on a Saturday. I'd definitely go in for a mass boycott but we're too soft as a group. We couldn't even manage to boycott a fucking friendly.

Plus it won't take more than two or three dodgy results for there to be panic on the streets of Salford. Man United fans under 30 have never known them even be as low as fourth and they'll get a sharp shock when they find out. After they won the title last season, Fergie put out an under strength team against Chelsea and lost. I heard a Man United on 606 say he was giving up his season ticket because of it. This is the spoilt wretches they are. They all signed up for the promise of consistent glory and it won't take five minutes for them to turn on Moyes. If he gets title winning performances out of Welbeck and Cleverly, and Fletcher, and Evans, and Giggs as Ferguson did, I will eat my proverbial hat.

I'm not knocking him as a manager but there's managing Everton to a decent level and there's managing Man United. One of my mates is an Everton fan, he says Moyes will do a good job there but he's no answer when I remind him that he's spent the last five years complaining about him. Imo it was Mourinho or nothing for that job. He's taking over from the greatest ever.

Moyes getting his excuses in early. That whole thing is going to be an unmitigated disaster.

Insisting that we must wait until we have the money in the bank before we spend a penny only works if all the other clubs are doing the same. Which they're not, which means even if we survived and spent next summer, we're going to be playing catch up.

It spends it on Mike Ashley's loan mate, which is good for us because Portsmouth.

Where does the money come from then? Am I missing something incredibly obvious here? I know players are assets once they arrive, but obviously that can't mean that anyone can just spend infinite money. You still need cash. We never posted a profit over £10m... therefore if we spend more than that we start incurring losses that add to our debt, right? Ian. If we spent £10m tomorrow on a player on a five year deal, the profit the day after would still be £10m. Next year (assuming a hypothetical situation in which every other single thing remains constant), the profit posted would be £8m. Please understand this. How many times? Your profit numbers are completely and utterly irrelevant to the argument. Aren't you confusing P&L with balance sheet? I understand how player values are accounted for as assets, but increasing spending still increases debt right? It doesn't increase debt if you've got the money Ian. The massive TV deal says that we have. Ah right, yep, we should invest a lot of that money. But we don't get it until the end of the season. We could borrow against it spend it I'm advance I guess, might be a good idea. Doesn't strike me as something Ashley would go for mind. Again, this comes back to our ludicrous decision to pay for all transfers in advance, which every other club thinks is a fucking stupid thing to do, which is why they don't do it. When it's guaranteed money, there's really no issue. I know I'm getting paid at the end of the month so if I want a pair of shoes, I'll buy a pair, not wait three weeks and walk round with a plastic bag on my feet until then.

Where does the money come from then? Am I missing something incredibly obvious here? I know players are assets once they arrive, but obviously that can't mean that anyone can just spend infinite money. You still need cash. We never posted a profit over £10m... therefore if we spend more than that we start incurring losses that add to our debt, right? Ian. If we spent £10m tomorrow on a player on a five year deal, the profit the day after would still be £10m. Next year (assuming a hypothetical situation in which every other single thing remains constant), the profit posted would be £8m. Please understand this. How many times? Your profit numbers are completely and utterly irrelevant to the argument. Aren't you confusing P&L with balance sheet? I understand how player values are accounted for as assets, but increasing spending still increases debt right? It doesn't increase debt if you've got the money Ian. The massive TV deal says that we have.

Looks like Ben Arfa too.

Apparently Ian's going to criticise him for that, he's just said. Over to you Ian.

If we get the new tv money? If?

Where does the money come from then? Am I missing something incredibly obvious here? I know players are assets once they arrive, but obviously that can't mean that anyone can just spend infinite money. You still need cash. We never posted a profit over £10m... therefore if we spend more than that we start incurring losses that add to our debt, right? Ian. If we spent £10m tomorrow on a player on a five year deal, the profit the day after would still be £10m. Next year (assuming a hypothetical situation in which every other single thing remains constant), the profit posted would be £8m. Please understand this. How many times? Your profit numbers are completely and utterly irrelevant to the argument.