UV

KK as aplayer worked on value terms,his transfer fee was very low. the problem the club has is in paying mega bucks for players past their best. Are you thinking of any specific players we've signed in the past with that statement, or was it just a general comment?

The 'being highly regarded by people more qualified than you or I' is a convenient thing to throw in to try and strengthen your point, how many managers have rated Shola? Does that mean we're all wrong because the likes of Sir Bobby thought he was quality? That's really clutching at straws. The fact is the club now has N'Zogbia and Duff down the left and Jonas and Geremi down the right, I can't remember a time we've ever started a season this better off for wide men, can you? Did Robson ever think Shola was quality? Has there ever been a time when Shola was above 3rd choice striker at best? Milner was 1st choice RW for a number of managers. I'd say Solano, Milner, N'Zogbia, Duff 2 seasons ago were equal to the current selection, and if you can stretch your mind back 4 years, I'd say Robert, Dyer, Bowyer, N'Zogbia, Milner was a far better selection.

It's not a bad thing at all, but it's only a good thing if those savings in interest payments are reinvested into the club. Would that include ploughing money in the academy and in signing youth players? Not aiming this at anyone in particular, just moving a point along but to a lot on here reinvestment in the club ONLY seems to involve signing players for the first team now. I would suggest (as indeed many others also do) that we need investment into the here and now and also for the future. It would appear that the future has been the boards priority right now. Oh certainly, as long as it as spent wisely and not at too much of a detriment to the immediate needs of the first team. If you or anyone have figures for how much the spending on the academy has increased under Ashley, then you'd certainly improve your arguments for how well the club is being run. However I'd also say that at this time I personally would not be convinced that any improvements in this area were motivated by a desire to make the club successful on the pitch as much as by a desire to sell them on for a profit later. Having the player for 3-5 years and benefitting from their rise to stardom > never having the player and not being able to compete on price for them with Man U/Chelsea when they reach their peak tbh. Sure, but there's a massive difference between developing players like Arsenal or Man U, hanging on to the best and moving on the one's who don't quite cut it, and eg Ipswich or the old days of West Ham where you develop some really good young players but sell them on as soon as they show some promise and are just a feeder club. The contract situation and subsequent sale of Milner (who I consider was out best young player) don't fill me with confidence that we will be following the first route. Everyone sees things coloured by their own opinion. I would class Milner as one of the ones you described as not quite cutting it and being moved on, so not a great example of this proving we are becoming a feeder club. He's hardly a Waddle or a Gascoigne. If you're expecting a conveyor belt of players better than Milner to come rolling off the academy production line, then I think you're setting massively high expectations for it and will be waiting an awfully long time. Milner was a first team player under a number of managers, and is obviously highly regarded by people more qualified to rate him than you or I, yet he was seen as not important enough to keep happy with what I am sure were quite modest contract demands, and was sold not because we had someone better to replace him with, but simply for profit.

It's not a bad thing at all, but it's only a good thing if those savings in interest payments are reinvested into the club. Would that include ploughing money in the academy and in signing youth players? Not aiming this at anyone in particular, just moving a point along but to a lot on here reinvestment in the club ONLY seems to involve signing players for the first team now. I would suggest (as indeed many others also do) that we need investment into the here and now and also for the future. It would appear that the future has been the boards priority right now. Oh certainly, as long as it as spent wisely and not at too much of a detriment to the immediate needs of the first team. If you or anyone have figures for how much the spending on the academy has increased under Ashley, then you'd certainly improve your arguments for how well the club is being run. However I'd also say that at this time I personally would not be convinced that any improvements in this area were motivated by a desire to make the club successful on the pitch as much as by a desire to sell them on for a profit later. Having the player for 3-5 years and benefitting from their rise to stardom > never having the player and not being able to compete on price for them with Man U/Chelsea when they reach their peak tbh. Sure, but there's a massive difference between developing players like Arsenal or Man U, hanging on to the best and moving on the one's who don't quite cut it, and eg Ipswich or the old days of West Ham where you develop some really good young players but sell them on as soon as they show some promise and are just a feeder club. The contract situation and subsequent sale of Milner (who I consider was out best young player) don't fill me with confidence that we will be following the first route.

It's not a bad thing at all, but it's only a good thing if those savings in interest payments are reinvested into the club. Would that include ploughing money in the academy and in signing youth players? Not aiming this at anyone in particular, just moving a point along but to a lot on here reinvestment in the club ONLY seems to involve signing players for the first team now. I would suggest (as indeed many others also do) that we need investment into the here and now and also for the future. It would appear that the future has been the boards priority right now. Oh certainly, as long as it as spent wisely and not at too much of a detriment to the immediate needs of the first team. If you or anyone have figures for how much the spending on the academy has increased under Ashley, then you'd certainly improve your arguments for how well the club is being run. However I'd also say that at this time I personally would not be convinced that any improvements in this area were motivated by a desire to make the club successful on the pitch as much as by a desire to sell them on for a profit later.

It's not a bad thing at all, but it's only a good thing if those savings in interest payments are reinvested into the club.

If you don't like that example, try another one. Would you have been happy in January if Wise had been appointed manager - a job for which he at least had a little experience? If not, why are you happy for him to have an even more important role at the club? Do you think Dennis Wise has the required background and experience to be the most important figure on the footballing side of the club? The one who not only ultimately chooses which players to buy and sell, but which coaches to hire and fire?

If only you'd spelt ridiculous incorrectly too, that could have been the most ironic post ever. in what way is that post over the top, patronising or ridiculous? It's patronising because it is calling someone else's views embarrassing and ridiculous without an argument as to why. It's ridiculous because of the thoroughly atrocious spelling and grammar.

Would you be happy with, say, Jonathan Douglas (Leeds captain under Wise) as manager first team coach? I don't have a clue what the hell you are on about with this comment? It's like half of the people on here have lost their senses in the last couple of weeks! What does Jonathan Douglas have to do with my post? Well, it's just that someone like Jonathan Douglas currently has as much of an adequate CV (captain of a Championship/League 1 side for a couple of years) to be a the head coach of a Premiership side as Dennis Wise (manager of a Championship/League 1 side for a couple of years) has to be the Director of Football of a Premiership side. You're happy with Dennis Wise, a man with no experience of even managing at a Premiership club to be given a role much more critical to the success of the team than the coach, so would you be happy with a coach who had a similar level of experience of coaching? FAIL! double fail tbh I'm glad you both agree that the appointment of Dennis Wise as Director of Football was a massive failure. Now, what can we do about it?

If only you'd spelt ridiculous incorrectly too, that could have been the most ironic post ever.

Would you be happy with, say, Jonathan Douglas (Leeds captain under Wise) as manager first team coach? I don't have a clue what the hell you are on about with this comment? It's like half of the people on here have lost their senses in the last couple of weeks! What does Jonathan Douglas have to do with my post? Well, it's just that someone like Jonathan Douglas currently has as much of an adequate CV (captain of a Championship/League 1 side for a couple of years) to be a the head coach of a Premiership side as Dennis Wise (manager of a Championship/League 1 side for a couple of years) has to be the Director of Football of a Premiership side. You're happy with Dennis Wise, a man with no experience of even managing at a Premiership club to be given a role much more critical to the success of the team than the coach, so would you be happy with a coach who had a similar level of experience of coaching?

Would you be happy with, say, Jonathan Douglas (Leeds captain under Wise) as manager first team coach?

Maybe he's making the point that black people are often the victims of crime, and it's just your own inherent racism which is making you assume he means they're the perpetrators?

2 made up lists, but which is the best? There's only one way to find out... Fiiiiight!

Allardyce again? There's probably only 2 or 3 managers in the world where 95% would be happy.

I'd hardly call someone a hero for having a tattoo and man boobs.

Pretending for a moment that it matters, do you imagine for one second that Ashley could not very easily be caught in such a sting operation saying far, far worse things about the club, it's staff, and the supporters. There's no doubt in my mind that the tabloids will be hatching their schemes to catch him out as we type, and with the lack of tact he has shown in his few public interviews (I hate Spurs me, cave in Afghanistan) I can only imagine what he'll come out with when pissed in private. I'm expecting to see something within the year. What in a brothel with possies? I'd be surprised if he was stupid enough to fall for that. Strange that there seems to be the same 2/3 posters all over these threads that don't agree with the popularist view on the club. That's fair enough, but I would have to question their motives for it, when they feel the need to do it on EVERY thread about this. Maybe pushing a bit too hard shows up the fact that they are doing it mainly to go against the grain instead of actually truly believe what they are saying. If the popularist view is to place more importance to the kind of mild insults any of us might come out with in private than to finishing third and playing in the Champions League (you know, in the middle of the period where we "bent over and took it up the arse from the club"), then I'm happy to be labelled contrary.

Forget campaigning as a way of forcing Ashley out. I agree it's very unlikely to work to that end. The situation is though that the club has seriously pissed off most supporters by its actions in the last week, and whether that be by negligence, by design or through no fault of his own, does not change that fact. I'm sure at this moment Ashley is regretting what has happened and if he could go back in time he'd do something to at least put off Keegan resigning (until he could undermine him a bit more ho ho). However, if after such a sacred cow has been used and cast adrift, if after such an initial public outcry, there were now to be no protests, no boycoutts, no repercussions whatsoever, what message does that send to Ashley? If he can carry on through this as if nothing has happened, it tells him he can do whatever the f*** he likes with the club from now to the end of time and noone will bat an eyelid. Is that the "relationship" we want with the owner of the club? Protest and affect the revenue of his other businesses now and it sends him a message so perhaps he'll at least think twice about crossing the supporters again. Do nothing, and expect an equal measure of respect to be given to our opinion in the future.

Pretending for a moment that it matters, do you imagine for one second that Ashley could not very easily be caught in such a sting operation saying far, far worse things about the club, it's staff, and the supporters. There's no doubt in my mind that the tabloids will be hatching their schemes to catch him out as we type, and with the lack of tact he has shown in his few public interviews (I hate Spurs me, cave in Afghanistan) I can only imagine what he'll come out with when pissed in private. I'm expecting to see something within the year.

This is true. However one of the numerous downfalls of the system is that if the root cause of a team's failings is not the coach but the players being brought into the club, then it takes much longer to address the problem as the club will inevitably go through a number of coaches before realising it. The person we have in charge of the system at our club has no track record or even experience at the job. If he is no good at the job it may take 5 or more years before the people at the top start to realise it.

You know who else had a great record as a player and won something as a manager in Turkey? That's right...

I know, I don't think Dennis Wise is as much to do with this mess as everyone seems to have assumed though. Just because he has the 'Executive Director (Football)' title he is getting the blame. Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear: http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences. Well, he might be above him in the structure, but I don't think that means he micro-manages what they do on a day-to-day basis. I doubt Jimenez and Vetere would have signed up to just be Dennis Wise's lackies, they are the ones with the knowledge of Europe and connections for getting young foreigners signed up. Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

I'm not really sure where this has come from myself. It seems much more likely to me that Guthrie is the sort of player Wise would have been looking at as manager of Leeds. Keegan was supposedly only interested in Lampard, Henry & Beckham.

Win what in the end? He's not going for the Premiership title, not even a UEFA cup spot. With the press rumours about everything else being spot on, I think he's looking to sell for a tidy profit. There's not all that much profit in owning a club, and I think we can say for certain that he's not after success on the pitch. I'm not so sure. Bring the wages down to 60% of turnover, maintain a squad capable of premiership survival on £5-£10m per year, maybe even make a profit some years on sales of the young players who develop and show promise, keep gates at 40K+ and merchandising ticking over, and there should be a healthy £20m+ per year to be made. Not bad for a £200m outlay on something which is also a growing investment.

I know, I don't think Dennis Wise is as much to do with this mess as everyone seems to have assumed though. Just because he has the 'Executive Director (Football)' title he is getting the blame. Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear: http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.