Benwell Lad

Frightened about upsetting their Arab pay masters no doubt. Remember when football used to be a proper sport ?

They were smash and grab wins to be fair. I don't think Newcastle deserved to lose either game, and many neutrals agree. I think a club losing its talisman can have the potential to derail a season, we have seen it plenty of times before. There is of course no evidence that we were a team relying on Ben Arfa because he's a new signing, but his class was obvious as is the lack of flair in the Newcastle squad. I would argue it's as big as Arsenal losing Fabregas or Man Utd losing Rooney. Those clubs could replace those players but would suffer heavily. We can't replace Ben Arfa with anything like the same player and have a squad threadbare on skill and creativity. We have lost our last two games, suffered some shocking refereeing and lost our star player for most of the season, we must get things back on track. I would argue, as others have said, that we should have had a siege mentality anyway. I've got no time for sky sports or the tabloids and their 'deluded fans' stuff, at the end of the day we just want to see our team do well like everyone else, we like winning and we hate losing. We became a target because we appointed and sacked a succession of crap managers while spiralling down the league with one of the highest wagebills. That was somehow turned into the fans' fault but in reality it was mismanagement. We're the same fans who saw the Keegan and Robson sides fly up the table. There is a feeling everyone is pulling in the same direction these days unlike that season and I genuinely feel we've just been unlucky in a few games this season. We're lacking firepower to turn good performances into good results, but I'm pleased we look capable of dominating midfield in a lot of games. We just desperately need quality up front, a matchwinner. Ben Arfa showed against Everton he has that kind of class. The team will either rally or their heads will drop, so I agree this could be a pivotal moment in our season. Excellent post. Totally agree.

It's not a load of nonsense, man. You all have gone mad. It's a bad tackle that has caused a bad injury. Fine. This is understood. People's legs are broken on the pitch all of the time. We can increase the penalties for bad tackles within football. This is acceptable It's the same as charging a racing car pilot with murder because he made a bad move that led to a deadly accident. This would be madness. Football is not the same as walking on the street, and there are inherent risks when you walk on the pitch. You don't call the police after every incident. That is literal insanity. The only way police could get involved is if there is an incident that is far separated from what is part of football. De Jong's tackle was not that. The game itself is "policed" by the referee, and the sport by the FA. They should deal severely with intended acts of violence which cause serious injury. When they fail in their duties to do so, there is no reason why the victims should not turn to common law to obtain justice and recompense for loss of earnings/investment etc. If this does go legal then it will be the fault of a very dodgy referee and an incompetent FA to deal with it properly in house. I'm also fairly sure that if a F1 driver made a deliberate move that put another driver in hospital or worse then he wouldn't be racing for a long time. The key is the intent behind the move, if De Jong and Ben Arfa were going for a 50:50 and their legs got caught together then its an accident. Mark Webbers impression of Superman in a car earlier this season was an accident. However, De Jong went in to put Ben Arfa out of this particular game either mentally or physically. We've all been in games where the manager has said to rough up the keeper, or 'keep the little quick un quiet'. He went too far in this, it was a deliberate act and he should be punished. Yes, but you could never prove intent on a tackle unless the player admitted it. Err... isn't that what the process of law and the judiciary is for ? To decide if there was intent. Do you also think murder, theft, fraud etc can not be proven unless the perpetrator admits guilt ? If it hadn't been for a very dodgy referee and an incompetent and ignorant football association it could have been concluded already. Deciding if there was intent and handing down punishment is the job of the FA (and FIFA). Tackling is part of the game. Should he have been punished - sent off, suspended, and possibly fined? Yes, yes, and yes. The FA and FIFA need to do a much better job of policing their game. Does he belong in jail? Of course not. Jail ? Are you kidding ? No one's talking about jail. It's about justice and compensation for a pre-meditated act of violence which has left a brilliant young footballer with a serious injury. De Jong earns millions a year. He is employed by billionaires. He commited an act of violence which should be punished accordingly. Sadly the referee in question and the governing body (FA) have chosen to turn a blind eye to this rather than address the problem and confront a club owned by the type of people they now pander to, i.e. billionaires who think they are above the law. If they are too weak to act then it should be taken to a higher jurisdiction. You were talking about taking legal action to seek damages which is fine, but those saying it is a criminal act/should be reported to police, etc. are basically saying he should be tried for assault (actual bodily harm or whatever it's called over there). That's completely ridiculous. Also you don't know it was pre-meditated and no one could ever prove it was. Not defending De Jong by the way - think he's a thug and I think he probably enjoys injuring opposing players. It's his version of scoring a goal. Of course no one knows if it was pre-meditataed, although camera evidence, post tackle behaviour and Brian Kidd's reaction may help any prosecution case to prove it was. That is the reason people go to courts - to obtain a clear ruling and verdict on criminal intent and liability. In this case I think there is a strong chance that intent would be proven. You on the other hand don't think it could be. Hence the reason we have courts.

It's not a load of nonsense, man. You all have gone mad. It's a bad tackle that has caused a bad injury. Fine. This is understood. People's legs are broken on the pitch all of the time. We can increase the penalties for bad tackles within football. This is acceptable It's the same as charging a racing car pilot with murder because he made a bad move that led to a deadly accident. This would be madness. Football is not the same as walking on the street, and there are inherent risks when you walk on the pitch. You don't call the police after every incident. That is literal insanity. The only way police could get involved is if there is an incident that is far separated from what is part of football. De Jong's tackle was not that. The game itself is "policed" by the referee, and the sport by the FA. They should deal severely with intended acts of violence which cause serious injury. When they fail in their duties to do so, there is no reason why the victims should not turn to common law to obtain justice and recompense for loss of earnings/investment etc. If this does go legal then it will be the fault of a very dodgy referee and an incompetent FA to deal with it properly in house. I'm also fairly sure that if a F1 driver made a deliberate move that put another driver in hospital or worse then he wouldn't be racing for a long time. The key is the intent behind the move, if De Jong and Ben Arfa were going for a 50:50 and their legs got caught together then its an accident. Mark Webbers impression of Superman in a car earlier this season was an accident. However, De Jong went in to put Ben Arfa out of this particular game either mentally or physically. We've all been in games where the manager has said to rough up the keeper, or 'keep the little quick un quiet'. He went too far in this, it was a deliberate act and he should be punished. Yes, but you could never prove intent on a tackle unless the player admitted it. Err... isn't that what the process of law and the judiciary is for ? To decide if there was intent. Do you also think murder, theft, fraud etc can not be proven unless the perpetrator admits guilt ? If it hadn't been for a very dodgy referee and an incompetent and ignorant football association it could have been concluded already. Deciding if there was intent and handing down punishment is the job of the FA (and FIFA). Tackling is part of the game. Should he have been punished - sent off, suspended, and possibly fined? Yes, yes, and yes. The FA and FIFA need to do a much better job of policing their game. Does he belong in jail? Of course not. Jail ? Are you kidding ? No one's talking about jail. It's about justice and compensation for a pre-meditated act of violence which has left a brilliant young footballer with a serious injury. De Jong earns millions a year. He is employed by billionaires. He commited an act of violence which should be punished accordingly. Sadly the referee in question and the governing body (FA) have chosen to turn a blind eye to this rather than address the problem and confront a club owned by the type of people they now pander to, i.e. billionaires who think they are above the law. If they are too weak to act then it should be taken to a higher jurisdiction.

Considering this thread came about after we got 41,915 (including just a few Stoke fans) for a free televised match against the least attractive team in the Premier League with a Sunday 4.10 pm kick off, and the shower down the road pulled in only 41,709 for a non-televised Saturday afternoon kick off against Man Utd - is it still disappointing when taken in that perspective ?

It's not a load of nonsense, man. You all have gone mad. It's a bad tackle that has caused a bad injury. Fine. This is understood. People's legs are broken on the pitch all of the time. We can increase the penalties for bad tackles within football. This is acceptable It's the same as charging a racing car pilot with murder because he made a bad move that led to a deadly accident. This would be madness. Football is not the same as walking on the street, and there are inherent risks when you walk on the pitch. You don't call the police after every incident. That is literal insanity. The only way police could get involved is if there is an incident that is far separated from what is part of football. De Jong's tackle was not that. The game itself is "policed" by the referee, and the sport by the FA. They should deal severely with intended acts of violence which cause serious injury. When they fail in their duties to do so, there is no reason why the victims should not turn to common law to obtain justice and recompense for loss of earnings/investment etc. If this does go legal then it will be the fault of a very dodgy referee and an incompetent FA to deal with it properly in house. I'm also fairly sure that if a F1 driver made a deliberate move that put another driver in hospital or worse then he wouldn't be racing for a long time. The key is the intent behind the move, if De Jong and Ben Arfa were going for a 50:50 and their legs got caught together then its an accident. Mark Webbers impression of Superman in a car earlier this season was an accident. However, De Jong went in to put Ben Arfa out of this particular game either mentally or physically. We've all been in games where the manager has said to rough up the keeper, or 'keep the little quick un quiet'. He went too far in this, it was a deliberate act and he should be punished. Yes, but you could never prove intent on a tackle unless the player admitted it. Err... isn't that what the process of law and the judiciary is for ? To decide if there was intent. Do you also think murder, theft, fraud etc can not be proven unless the perpetrator admits guilt ? If it hadn't been for a very dodgy referee and an incompetent and ignorant football association it could have been concluded already.

I posted this in the post-match thread. I like the way Hughton goes about his work but I think he needs to let referees know he is no pushover. "Like you, I was proud of our manager and team on the day but at the same time really sick and depressed about the way it panned out. One thing I'd like to see from Hughton is a little bit less "fair play nice guy" and a touch more of the Ferguson pugnacity, where any referee or opposition thug would know they'd be getting both barrels from him as they leave the pitch. That said CH was about as angry as we've ever seen him"

Ditto. Bobby Moore/ Colin Todd esque.

On Barton's return to football Nasri intentionally goaded Barton (who was under great pressure and very much in the spotlight) in an attempt to get him to react. Pot, kettle, black ?

Petition to the FA, which may have been posted elsewhere ?? http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?HBA001&1

I guess we all know there is quite a bit in common between the infrastructures and economies of wearyside and Dehli, but when they dumped sewage into the away dressing room at the appropriately named Stadium of Shite, was it really an accident ? I seem to remember when the place was built, they designed and painted the away dressing room on the advice of a psychcologist who said it would have a negative effect (cheating basically). Dumping shite on Manure just before the game started wasn't another piece of makum gamesmanship was it ? I think we should be told.

What an awful attitude. You were hugely unlucky on Sunday, yes. But how has your season been derailed? The injury is a blow, obviously, but getting into the mindset of it ruining your whole season is ridiculous. You then, unless you're on the wind up, go on to patronise the hell out of Blackpool and Stoke, who both deserved their wins at SJP. I'd rarely begrudge the team who win the game their victory, cos it is, after all, about putting the ball in the net (Sunday is an obvious exception because the referee decided who won that one and not the players on the field) but to say Blackpool and Stoke "deserved" their wins would imply that they were the better teams. They clearly were not.

It's not a load of nonsense, man. You all have gone mad. It's a bad tackle that has caused a bad injury. Fine. This is understood. People's legs are broken on the pitch all of the time. We can increase the penalties for bad tackles within football. This is acceptable It's the same as charging a racing car pilot with murder because he made a bad move that led to a deadly accident. This would be madness. Football is not the same as walking on the street, and there are inherent risks when you walk on the pitch. You don't call the police after every incident. That is literal insanity. The only way police could get involved is if there is an incident that is far separated from what is part of football. De Jong's tackle was not that. The game itself is "policed" by the referee, and the sport by the FA. They should deal severely with intended acts of violence which cause serious injury. When they fail in their duties to do so, there is no reason why the victims should not turn to common law to obtain justice and recompense for loss of earnings/investment etc. If this does go legal then it will be the fault of a very dodgy referee and an incompetent FA to deal with it properly in house.

Words like "corrupt" and "cheat" have been used in relation to English referees in this thread and that is quite alarming. However based on, for example, Martin Atkinson's performance on Sunday it's obvious why such accusations are made. He gets all of the major calls wrong, BUT co-incidentally all the wrong calls are in favour of one team. Professional referees at the top of the English game earn around £60K a year to control football matches and be very much the person who decides it's outcome - again for example Sunday where the merits and performances of the two sides had LESS influence on the result than the official who got all the major calls wrong in the favour of one of the teams. £60K really is a pittance in a sport/industry when Gary Cooke and his mancy sheikh are gambling hundreds of millions on short term success and millions more are wagered by punters around the world. Of course no one would suggest that the English Premier League could be anything other than squeaky clean, but there again, a year ago I thought the Aussies had beaten Pakistan fair and square.

#4 - but possibly decided on the training ground with just a little "wink" in the dressing room. Brian Kidd's reaction/body language in the post match interview would be of interest to any prosecution lawyer I'm sure.

I really hope the injustices we've suffered crank up a level of support that wouldn't normally be seen at a home match versus Wigan !

I was still absolutely seething when I woke up this morning. Then I remembered Ben Arfa's injury and it moved on to that empty sort of 'ah f***' feeling. Just exactly the way I felt and what I thought at about that time too. Many others too I'd think.

Is that relating to the awful standard of referees in the English league? YES Or, is it relating to certain managers in the EPL instructing certain thug players to go out and target key opposition players ? YES.

It's something I've never been keen on in sport, but after yesterday's incident I'm so sure that the tackle was pre-meditated on the instructions of the Man City dressing room, with no remorse having been shown and the match officials having failed in their duty totally, I'd be very tempted to pursue legal action for damages both on the player and the club's behalf.

Considering the quality of the opposition midfield and forwards apart from a wrongly given penalty and an excellent individual goal I can't remember them threatening us. Great credit to our defence and midfield for that. Like you, I was proud of our manager and team on the day but at the same time really sick and depressed about the way it panned out. One thing I'd like to see from Hughton is a little bit less "fair play nice guy" and a touch more of the Ferguson pugnacity, where any referee or opposition thug would know they'd be getting both barrels from him as they leave the pitch. That said CH was about as angry as we've ever seen him.

Football would be a lot better off if players like De Jong, Cattermole and Henry were just banned for life and removed from the game. There can be no place in modern day football for thugs whose role is to follow their managers instructions to go out and hurt key opposition players.

The FA and PL really need to address the incompetence of referees and their assistants, they try to market their product as the best in the world - it may or may not be - but the people refereeing are spoiling the product and in some cases illustrating a level of incompetence which borders on and must raise suspicions of cheating. Their case would be helped if players like Cattermole, Henry and de Jong were just banned for life and removed from the game. There can be no place in modern day football for thugs whose role is to follow their managers instructions to go out and hurt key opposition players.

Trying to defy that "senior" players will hold sway on a manager is like trying to defy gravity. It has always happened from the Northern League to the World Cup and it always will. Brian Clough would always play McGovern despite his shortcomings because he saw him as his lieutenant on the field. Often a senior player's nous and presence can outweigh a younger players speed and enthusiasm in the bigger scheme, but the right balance is of course essential. Wait until Guthrie and Gosling enter the mix, this debate could really hot up.

That could be the explanation. Those who issue safety/fire certificates etc. do have the final say.

I preferred standing in the Leazes and was gutted when they pulled it down, I still enjoyed going in to the Gallowgate, even if it wasn't quite as good. Im sure us oldies have been here before- My dad used to take me in the leazes corner next east stand, them fuckers in the middle section then were mental- was that you? Btw ive just read TT post our average this seaso is 45k.... wtf is dissapointing about that? We've certainly been there before - but why not harp on about it again - it was an amazing experience which could only be witnessed in some Turkish or S.American stadium nowadays. It was violent, passionate, crammed, bordering on uncivilised and deafeningly loud but far better than anywhere I've ever stood or sat since. The "scoreboard" and "corner" which came next in the Gallowgate were decent but didn't even get close to the old Leazes End atmosphere. Used to stand in the Leazes in the late 60s/early 70s - it was an awesome experience, part brill, part bad. You never got cold in winter, everyone packed in like sardines. A voyeur's paradise too, all those lasses being pressed up against you when goals were scored...! Fantastic atmosphere - was there when we beat the Mackems 3-0 in 1970 and feet hardly touched the ground. Same era for me. You're right about the "part bad" bit though - too easy to get over romantic about it - some of the stuff that went on in there was appalling - though at the time seemed pretty normal.