Benwell Lad

No, YOU get a grip - we are talking FOOTBALL CLUBS here, not cities ; nobody disputes that Sunderland is an inferior CITY to Newcastle, but what difference does THAT make in the football world ? Liverpool is ALSO an inferior city to Newcastle in some ways, but they still have a team world's apart from NUFC...they also won the 'City of Culture' thing, mainly because Blair's wife comes from there, so don't quote THAT as a guideline ; no, they are going to be the No 1 team in the NE for at least 1 year and probably more, so as I said - DIG YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND ; NUFC has lived in cloud cuckoo land for far too long and its about time our fans started facing the realities of life now that we have been relegated. Thank your lucky stars that one Brian Clough(who used to play for them), never became their manager or our record over the past 40 years would look distinctly ragged against what they would have achieved under him....... They continue to bask in the glory of a 36 point season - 2 more than us and about twice their usual PL total - and seeing us go down. Let them enjoy the moment but whatever they proclaim that will continue to be the height of their ambition. Bruce is not a great manager - if he was he'd be at a big club by now - and whatever they're saying right now his Geordie credentials will weigh heavily against him once it starts going wrong - another Lawrie Macmenemie perhaps ? He has a big, overpaid underperforming squad to sort out (sounds familiar ?) and despite newspaper talk of "big signings" Sunderland will remain a particularly unattractive option for any decent player in a finacially competitive market. Right now the their target/ambition is exactly the same as ours, i.e to be playing in the PL the season after next. If we're no longer competing for a top of the table place and Europe and if our status has sunk to being a club who merely want to be in the PL next year we may as well take a step back and rebuild. Granted they'll get a bit more TV cash in the meantime but despite the "new order" we'll still have higher attendances and a lot more media coverage. That's the way it will alway's be, they know it and so does Steve Bruce and everyone else in football. Unless NUFC is sold quickly, and to a determined and clever owner, I am willing to bet that, by the end of next season, our attendances will be worse than theirs - i think you are underestimating the degree of anger and disillusion among our fans. If we struggle in the first few months of the season and have not been sold, OR the new owners do not invest quickly, the gates will start to drop rapidly. Nobody knows exactly how well Bruce will so, OR what sort of signings he might make - all of that will determine how well they do and what sort of crowds they will get...you are judging things from how the clubs have performed over the past 20 years ; all of that is now in the melting pot.. Nothing stays the same, and we are not talking about a club like, say, Leeds who were never going to attract really big crowds because Rugby is a more popular game in W.Yorks - Sunderland DO have the capacity to draw large crowds on a regular basis IF , for example, they managed to get into the UEFA Cup for a couple of seasons. At present, they are in a far better situation and with more chance of Prem respectability than NUFC, and until Newcastle is back in the Prem(OR Bruce fails spectacularly, which not many on here would put money on), you can forget all the historical stuff...and as for 'more media coverage', just see how much more money they will get by being on Sky next season....it also seems to me that 'everyone else in football' was secretly quite pleased to see NUFC go down..! Your reply is crammed with supposition all assuming a best case scenario for them and a worst case for us. It's highly unlikely. No decent player with options will go there and Bruce is not a top manager, their ambition will merely be survival. Let's face it in a hovvel like Sunderland, where I believe no member of their playing or management staff will lower themselves to reside, it's always going to be an uphill battle to attract decent people. UEFA cup - now you are getting carried away and I'm not sure what your point about "'everyone else in football' was secretly quite pleased to see NUFC go down..! " has to do with this particular discussion. P.S. Which rugby league team ever had a higher attendance than Leeds United - even when they are in the 3rd division ? No, my reply is NOT crammed with supposition - my reply laid out a scenario that is certainly possible in the current circumstances ; however much you hate to admit it, the fact of the matter is that S'Land will CERTAINLY finish higher than NUFC next season - even if we get promoted, which looks as likely as winning the FA Cup right now.. They WILL get more money from TV than we will, they have a new owner who looks as if he will invest in the team(then again, to be fair, so did Ashley...), and they have a manager who has achieved a reasonable degree of success at clubs who have far less going for them than EITHER NUFC or the Mackems..only a fool would rule out the chance that he might just have more success at a club with a bigger fan base and not having to sell to balance the books ; you have no more reason to believe he will fail than I have to say he will be a success, but the facts certainly do NOT lean to any view that he WILL fail.. As for the UEFA Cup, they are unlikely to achieve that in the next season, but, if they make progress under Bruce. I wouldn't rule them out as possible Top 7 material the following year if he is allowed to make further signings - NOBODY can rule that out, after all, there were plenty on here scoffing at MON being appointed to the Villa job, but he has achieved exactly that, and S/Land could draw just as big(or larger)crowds than Villa. Do you believe that any of the top Prem clubs would have expected NUFC to be in the Top 3 the season after Promotion ? As you should remember, that is what happened - its unlikely ever to happen again, but it shows that a properly-managed club with ambitious management and Directors CAN go places..the fact that Sunderland is not as nice as Newcastle has nothing to do with it... Sheff Weds & Wolves used to be giants of the game - as did Notts Forest and Derby under Clough ; before Clough arrived at Derby, they were a Second Div backwater, well below the likes of Sheff Weds and Wolves in the pecking order, but they left them standing and although they are in the Fizzy now, they have been better than Sheff Weds ever since, so do not think that clubs with big histories and nice cities are always the most successful - they aren't. My point about 'everyone else in football' was in answer to the point YOU made assuming that everyone else in the game shared your opinion about NUFC always going to be a bigger club than Sunderland - Personally, I don't think the majority of fans give a toss about that and think that BOTH NE clubs are rubbish(which, frankly, they ARE right now), but there were certainly PLENTY of fans of other teams who were DELIGHTED to see us go down, and Richard Scudamore, CE of the Prem, said they wouldn't miss us - interpret THAT as you will.... The point about Leeds was that, even if people don't go to games, they still have a greater interest in RL than Football - the only other deduction to be made is that they don;t care EITHER way, and that still proves my point about the Mackems having more potential than Leeds - even Don Revie thought that. I have always wanted NUFC to be a club deserving of its supporters - that is, one of the Top 5 in England,but I have never been so blind as to see that if we ever lost the plot, the Mackems always had the support potential to be a successful club, even in the days when we were competing with Man U for the title - complacency is a dangerous and stupid mindset in every walk of life, and especially in football. We will see what happens over the next 2 years..... You, sorry they, were probably just as excited when they last hired "a manager who has achieved a reasonable degree of success at clubs who have far less going for them than EITHER NUFC or the Mackems" as you put it. Lawrie MacMenemy was a total failure and Bruce has done little to suggest he is better qualified than him and he has a top heavy, overpaid, underperforming squad to sort out first. My point about Sunderland being a remote hovvel which no one would choose to live in does not totally preclude the chance of them making decent signings, they can after all reside in Newcastle or Durham - as most of Sunderland's playing staff already do, it just means that decent players with options will most likely go elsewhere or demand extra money to put up with life on Wearside. As you say we will indeed see what happens over the next 2 years, I have no great optimism for Newcastle right now, but also fail to see how you or a mackem can predict such a rosy future for an oversized, overpaid squad which managed 36 points, on the back of the appointment of an average journeyman manager. Sounds like Saint Niall's magic carpet blarney/bullsh@t is working again.

Isn't £40M just the annual amount required to service the debt, which is more like £350M and overdue ?

In amonst all the discussion about our financial position and needing bank facility agreements before decisions can be made etc etc here is more evidence of the imperious nature of banks relationships with football clubs today. In this case a club who, on the surface have everything we could wish for in terms of playing success and yet even for them it looks like trouble could be looming. What hope for a return to the days when football clubs were just that - clubs - and not billionaires toys or parts of of multi-national corporation's portfolios. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8055814.stm

No, YOU get a grip - we are talking FOOTBALL CLUBS here, not cities ; nobody disputes that Sunderland is an inferior CITY to Newcastle, but what difference does THAT make in the football world ? Liverpool is ALSO an inferior city to Newcastle in some ways, but they still have a team world's apart from NUFC...they also won the 'City of Culture' thing, mainly because Blair's wife comes from there, so don't quote THAT as a guideline ; no, they are going to be the No 1 team in the NE for at least 1 year and probably more, so as I said - DIG YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND ; NUFC has lived in cloud cuckoo land for far too long and its about time our fans started facing the realities of life now that we have been relegated. Thank your lucky stars that one Brian Clough(who used to play for them), never became their manager or our record over the past 40 years would look distinctly ragged against what they would have achieved under him....... They continue to bask in the glory of a 36 point season - 2 more than us and about twice their usual PL total - and seeing us go down. Let them enjoy the moment but whatever they proclaim that will continue to be the height of their ambition. Bruce is not a great manager - if he was he'd be at a big club by now - and whatever they're saying right now his Geordie credentials will weigh heavily against him once it starts going wrong - another Lawrie Macmenemie perhaps ? He has a big, overpaid underperforming squad to sort out (sounds familiar ?) and despite newspaper talk of "big signings" Sunderland will remain a particularly unattractive option for any decent player in a finacially competitive market. Right now the their target/ambition is exactly the same as ours, i.e to be playing in the PL the season after next. If we're no longer competing for a top of the table place and Europe and if our status has sunk to being a club who merely want to be in the PL next year we may as well take a step back and rebuild. Granted they'll get a bit more TV cash in the meantime but despite the "new order" we'll still have higher attendances and a lot more media coverage. That's the way it will alway's be, they know it and so does Steve Bruce and everyone else in football. Unless NUFC is sold quickly, and to a determined and clever owner, I am willing to bet that, by the end of next season, our attendances will be worse than theirs - i think you are underestimating the degree of anger and disillusion among our fans. If we struggle in the first few months of the season and have not been sold, OR the new owners do not invest quickly, the gates will start to drop rapidly. Nobody knows exactly how well Bruce will so, OR what sort of signings he might make - all of that will determine how well they do and what sort of crowds they will get...you are judging things from how the clubs have performed over the past 20 years ; all of that is now in the melting pot.. Nothing stays the same, and we are not talking about a club like, say, Leeds who were never going to attract really big crowds because Rugby is a more popular game in W.Yorks - Sunderland DO have the capacity to draw large crowds on a regular basis IF , for example, they managed to get into the UEFA Cup for a couple of seasons. At present, they are in a far better situation and with more chance of Prem respectability than NUFC, and until Newcastle is back in the Prem(OR Bruce fails spectacularly, which not many on here would put money on), you can forget all the historical stuff...and as for 'more media coverage', just see how much more money they will get by being on Sky next season....it also seems to me that 'everyone else in football' was secretly quite pleased to see NUFC go down..! Your reply is crammed with supposition all assuming a best case scenario for them and a worst case for us. It's highly unlikely. No decent player with options will go there and Bruce is not a top manager, their ambition will merely be survival. Let's face it in a hovvel like Sunderland, where I believe no member of their playing or management staff will lower themselves to reside, it's always going to be an uphill battle to attract decent people. UEFA cup - now you are getting carried away and I'm not sure what your point about "'everyone else in football' was secretly quite pleased to see NUFC go down..! " has to do with this particular discussion. P.S. Which rugby league team ever had a higher attendance than Leeds United - even when they are in the 3rd division ?

No, YOU get a grip - we are talking FOOTBALL CLUBS here, not cities ; nobody disputes that Sunderland is an inferior CITY to Newcastle, but what difference does THAT make in the football world ? Liverpool is ALSO an inferior city to Newcastle in some ways, but they still have a team world's apart from NUFC...they also won the 'City of Culture' thing, mainly because Blair's wife comes from there, so don't quote THAT as a guideline ; no, they are going to be the No 1 team in the NE for at least 1 year and probably more, so as I said - DIG YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND ; NUFC has lived in cloud cuckoo land for far too long and its about time our fans started facing the realities of life now that we have been relegated. Thank your lucky stars that one Brian Clough(who used to play for them), never became their manager or our record over the past 40 years would look distinctly ragged against what they would have achieved under him....... They continue to bask in the glory of a 36 point season - 2 more than us and about twice their usual PL total - and seeing us go down. Let them enjoy the moment but whatever they proclaim that will continue to be the height of their ambition. Bruce is not a great manager - if he was he'd be at a big club by now - and whatever they're saying right now his Geordie credentials will weigh heavily against him once it starts going wrong - another Lawrie Macmenemie perhaps ? He has a big, overpaid underperforming squad to sort out (sounds familiar ?) and despite newspaper talk of "big signings" Sunderland will remain a particularly unattractive option for any decent player in a finacially competitive market. Right now the their target/ambition is exactly the same as ours, i.e to be playing in the PL the season after next. If we're no longer competing for a top of the table place and Europe and if our status has sunk to being a club who merely want to be in the PL next year we may as well take a step back and rebuild. Granted they'll get a bit more TV cash in the meantime but despite the "new order" we'll still have higher attendances and a lot more media coverage. That's the way it will alway's be, they know it and so does Steve Bruce and everyone else in football.

Amen. So you recon Man City and Portsmouth are being conned then? Don't know as I'm not really interested in them. I don't really understand your question either, has it something to do with what Dover wrote ?

Amen.

His progress was one of, if not the highlight of our season. Will be a top full back IMO and would hate to see him go to another English club. Hopefully he is one we can hold on to despite the financial constraints we'll face.

Jones could be top quality for them in a few years. Scored 12 goals this season despite only returning in November and allegedly brought back too soon and hasn't been 100% fit this season. Started to find his true form near the tail end of the season according to a Mackem mate of mine. I haven't seen that much of him, but when I have he looks like Shola Ameobi with long hair to me.

I saw most games last season and I saw defenders who couldn't defend, a midfield which was unbalanced and incapable of providing decent service, forwards who couldn't time a decent run or get on the end of what little we did create. I saw a series of awful decisions go against us and players with little or no confidence BUT frankly I never saw this supposed lack of effort or couldn't care less attitude which they have been accused of. By and large, with possibly one exception, I thought most were busting their guts to try and get results. They just weren't good enough.

No offence, but you just made that all up didn't you? We have no idea what is happening, for all we know the club could be just working out the details of Shearer's deal/demands. This is a big decision, it's only been a couple of days, give them a chance FFS. No offence, but mind your neb. I'm saying what I think is happening going off past preformances by the GOONS in charge. Sorry but they DO have previous. I just believe in criticising people for things they've actually done, rather than stuff that exists only in my imagination. Yeah we have last season to go off as an example. KK pissed around with these c***s for 3 days before conceding he couldn't get through to them what makes you think this is any different? Well yeah, I'm not saying they didn't do things wrong before, so fair enough criticise them for that. There was claim and counter-claim with KK as well, we still don't know who was really at fault. All I'm saying is don't slag them off for f***ing things up with Shearer when nothing has happened yet. Edit - as for your second reply, feel free to slag them off as much as possible for us getting relegated, that would fall into the 'things that have actually happened' category. I just don't see why you have to find extra things to have a go at the club for, when in reality they might just as well announce Shearer as manager in the next few days. Never had a pot shot at the club, i'm having a go at the owner and his clems. It reads like you're having a go at the club. What are "clems" - is that a mackem expression ? I do believe i mentioned Ashley and his goons a couple of times and though it was clear who i was having a pop at. If you cant tell the difference between ashley and the club then maybe you need to question why your support of NUFC. As for clems, are you a man? If so you have two between your legs in a ball sack. Unless your going through the change, if so you need to change your user name to Benwell Lass. You're a bit of a boy you are gimp. Not the brightest but a good laugh none the less Not what your old girl was saying last night when i was doing her up the shitter. Really In many ways that line sums you up. Good on yer mate - whatever next !

No offence, but you just made that all up didn't you? We have no idea what is happening, for all we know the club could be just working out the details of Shearer's deal/demands. This is a big decision, it's only been a couple of days, give them a chance FFS. No offence, but mind your neb. I'm saying what I think is happening going off past preformances by the GOONS in charge. Sorry but they DO have previous. I just believe in criticising people for things they've actually done, rather than stuff that exists only in my imagination. Yeah we have last season to go off as an example. KK pissed around with these c***s for 3 days before conceding he couldn't get through to them what makes you think this is any different? Well yeah, I'm not saying they didn't do things wrong before, so fair enough criticise them for that. There was claim and counter-claim with KK as well, we still don't know who was really at fault. All I'm saying is don't slag them off for f***ing things up with Shearer when nothing has happened yet. Edit - as for your second reply, feel free to slag them off as much as possible for us getting relegated, that would fall into the 'things that have actually happened' category. I just don't see why you have to find extra things to have a go at the club for, when in reality they might just as well announce Shearer as manager in the next few days. Never had a pot shot at the club, i'm having a go at the owner and his clems. It reads like you're having a go at the club. What are "clems" - is that a mackem expression ? I do believe i mentioned Ashley and his goons a couple of times and though it was clear who i was having a pop at. If you cant tell the difference between ashley and the club then maybe you need to question why your support of NUFC. As for clems, are you a man? If so you have two between your legs in a ball sack. Unless your going through the change, if so you need to change your user name to Benwell Lass. You're a bit of a boy you are gimp. Not the brightest but a good laugh none the less

thats pretty much why i dont think dowie will be of any major help to shearer/us, possibly other than coaching. how much can you learn about successful management from ian dowie? Well he got Palace promoted into the Premier League. That'll do. Having someone who knows the league will be essential.

No offence, but you just made that all up didn't you? We have no idea what is happening, for all we know the club could be just working out the details of Shearer's deal/demands. This is a big decision, it's only been a couple of days, give them a chance FFS. No offence, but mind your neb. I'm saying what I think is happening going off past preformances by the GOONS in charge. Sorry but they DO have previous. I just believe in criticising people for things they've actually done, rather than stuff that exists only in my imagination. Yeah we have last season to go off as an example. KK pissed around with these c***s for 3 days before conceding he couldn't get through to them what makes you think this is any different? Well yeah, I'm not saying they didn't do things wrong before, so fair enough criticise them for that. There was claim and counter-claim with KK as well, we still don't know who was really at fault. All I'm saying is don't slag them off for f***ing things up with Shearer when nothing has happened yet. Edit - as for your second reply, feel free to slag them off as much as possible for us getting relegated, that would fall into the 'things that have actually happened' category. I just don't see why you have to find extra things to have a go at the club for, when in reality they might just as well announce Shearer as manager in the next few days. Never had a pot shot at the club, i'm having a go at the owner and his clems. It reads like you're having a go at the club. What are "clems" - is that a mackem expression ?

I agree with you Bob, but as one of those fans he is talking about, I hate to admit there is a lot of truth in the bit I've highlighted. However as things stand I think we've painted ourselves into a corner, so right now Shearer is the only realistic option.

Calm down boys and girls. There are some multi million pound contracts being negotiated here, it will be in neither party's interest to rush anything. Behind the scenes there will be more lawyers poring over details than we'd care to know about. Those guys never rush and nothing will be signed until they say so.

stevie t sticking his oar in for the captains armband, doing a bit of crawly bum lick If Taylor was as good at defending as he is at playing to the gallery he'd be the England senior team first choice not just an U21.

For once their "whore" didn't give them everything they wanted.

It's not particularly well written, but he does make some very valid points and it's certainly an alternative opinion to that of the masses. That said I think Shearer will be the best appointment in the current circumstances - but he'll have to learn very quickly.

As we stand we have Ashley as owner, we have us the fans and hopefully we soon have Shearer the manager and a totally commited squad of players and backroom staff. Unless we all put on a totally united front and that may require burying of hatchets all round, things will only get worse. I'm pleased he has made some kind of statement. I hope he starts making much cleverer decisions from now on.

Well done mate. Totally agree with the OP. This is a time for defiance not shame. Anyway one net result of our relegation is that them and us will have exactly the same ambition next season - to be playing in the PL the following season - but we'll probably have more fun along the way. If we're no longer capable of challenging at the top for Europe and we're resigned to fighting for survival we may as well take a year out to regroup and move forward.

Almost as interesting as what'll happen to us given our reported debt levels I imagine. £34 million loss in 12 months announced in January + 100 million owed to Ashley + £40 million TV revenue Loss for next season + £73 million wage bill = mess :omg: We're hardly going to have the same wage bill come August are we? I hope not, but there's going to be a few mercenaries desperate to hang onto their contracts with you. For example, who's going to offer Duff a contract to lure him from you? Nobody. Which means you're stuck with them. The only way out would be to accept a £2million bid from Wigan, and then you'll be forced to do a Leeds .... and agree to pay about a huge % of his wage until his contract would have ended, just to cut your losses. No relegation wage cuts in contracts has made it really difficult. There's loyalty payments to consider as well. Without transfer requests Alan Smith would be entitled to some if he leaves. True. It's not a good situation and should Ashley get vindictive it could be worse. To answer the title of the thread, I think yes and even if we get our act/squad together it'll be far from easy.

Never as good (or as hard) as the hype that surrounded him, but great attitude none the less. Perhaps if Colloccini grew a beard....

It's unlikely you will ever see the best of a foreign player in his first season in a new league/country and IMPOSSIBLE if the club is in the turmoil we were. I saw a player who was lacking confidence and belief lately but never one who wasn't trying as some try to imply.

.... was different to those which were promoted before them. They had a stable and united club behind them and total support of the fans. The board and manager invested wisely and the club was positioned to progress in the next league, and not just come back down after a season or two. Alan Shearer (or whoever is charged with the task) will be wise to study that model and try to build a similar type of team. People calling for the departure of players like Duff and Butt should be aware that they were just the type of players Keegan brought to the club to gain promotion. His was a team built around experience and it allowed flair players to express themselves. He was also ruthless and very quickly discarded some of his key players as soon as promotion was achieved. This time round it's very different. Football and business have changed and the club has suffered a huge negative blow, last time round we were a second division team on the ascendency, the general mood was positive. What has not changed is that we will fill every away ground we visit next season, each game will be that club's cup final and the atmosphere will be intense and intimidating. To cope with that we will need experienced players, kids alone would not deal with it, so Shearer's team will need to be a blend of experience and flair. Hopefully we'll find a couple of gems with pace to give us something different, although Waddle's or Beardsley's may be in short supply. What will certainly be needed if we are to bounce back will be a totally UNITED club. We need a strong united management team, only players totally commited to the cause and fans who support rather than bicker and criticise. We can't turn back the clock but we can learn a lot from the way the club was 16 or 17 years ago when we last got promoted and went on to challenge for the Premier League title shortly afterwards.