Benwell Lad

I don't think he has disrupted anything, despite being blamed for just about everything which has gone wrong he has kept a professional silence and on the evidence of recruitment so far (albeit perhaps not enough) he seems to be bringing decent players and youngsters into the club. As someone who (like everyone else in Newcastle) once hated Wise and loved Keegan, I've got to say that whatever happened it's Wise I admire more now. Keegan had the backing and love of the fans and was at a club he supposedly loved and yet walked out on us (again) the moment there was an issue to be addressed. Wise despite having no popular backing has stuck to his job when frankly it would have been much easier for him to walk. Wise love him or hate him (and most hate him) was always a tough little f*cker and I quite admire that. He just seems to be getting on with the job he was contracted to do but will always be a convenient scapegoat for justifying Keegan's walk out.

Charles N'Z in Louis' in Jesmond. Paying him far too much if he can afford to eat in there !

I attend games and I DO think it's fairly representative. Most polls on Ashley issues here seem to indicate that about 20-25% of people blame him for everything, I think that figure may be even less amongst those I know who go to matches. I think the vast majority of Newcastle fans are just sick of the whole issue and would like to move on, whether that involves Ashley being around or not. It certainly seems those who continue to blame Ashley for everything are the types who see fault in things but never actually provide solutions. If they could actually do something positive - like suggest WHO or WHAT they want instead of Ashley - rather than just continuing to scream "get out" to a person, who lets face it, has pretty much got the message and "got out" - then they would probably gain more credibility and support from the majority who are sick of their stupid banners etc.

Yeah, what we need is signings chosen by Dennis Wise or Kinnear The Fantasist. We'd be better off playing Fat Uncle Mike and Lovenkrands' unborn baby (which is the only reason he's anywhere near us) than most players them two daft c***s will choose. Kinnear has less of a clue than Roeder, Souness or Allardyce, but any fan who didn't start questioning him after the "Owen will let me know in 2 days" LIE is a f***ing cretin who no doubt wanted to give Fat Sam more time - gullible wankers. We were s*** today, and the face onm Given when he left the field was what every fan should have......but too many arseholes will keep buying shirts and supporting the manager/club because "that makes you a real fan"....f*** off, you retards. We're still above Sundlund though monkey.

In psychology one negative or destructive comment carries a weight of 10 positive comments. When we're booing our players over petty things like f***ing up corners, what do you think that's doing to them? When they under perform all season and put our club in a position where we are facing relegation, what do you think that is doing to us? You cant blame the fans for getting on players' backs when the players are part of the problem. If they put abit of effort in and earned their wages then they wouldnt get any stick. Aye, but giving them stick doesn't make them any better. So what's the point? So maybe they get their finger out? What do you suggest? When the players play s*** the fans continue to cheer them on or even just do nothing? The only out come of that is the players will think they can get away with under performing. I don't know if you've played much football yourself... but when you're playing, if one of your team mates is having a mare you don't start having a pop at him. You don't get on his case. It'll only make him play worse. Instead when he does something well you tell him "well played". Try and give him a lift. Try and lead by example. Don't get hung up on the negative. Negative attitudes fester and are difficult to get out of. If you put the effort into creating a positive environment then you will generate better performances. It's not rocket science. I think there's a lot of truth in that, like the pathetic excuses we get for referees many fans have never actually kicked a ball seriously - and it's very obvious by some of the comments you hear at matches. Results may be going against us and many of our squad players are not good enough but to imply professional footballers lack effort or desire is frankly laughable.

Total :duff: Him and Lee Cattermole (and Djbril Cisse)

In psychology one negative or destructive comment carries a weight of 10 positive comments. When we're booing our players over petty things like f***ing up corners, what do you think that's doing to them? When they show no f***ing spine or respect for the badge week in week out bar a few, what do you think that's doing for us? I'm f***ing sick of this talk as if footballers are these precious little flowers. They carry on with no worry of the problems that this country is under. Thousands of people are losing their jobs and these 'stars' are on an absolute wedge that is generated by US! These players may only have these wages due to the way the game has gone and are just a part of the way things are now, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't at least try to f***ing EARN it. I wouldn't criticise the effort of any of our players this season. Regardless of their ability I can't name one that isn't trying to win. Dead right. Whatever may be wrong it is certainly NOT lack of effort or desire.

Was in East stand on Wednesday - probably more moaners who are constantly on players backs than people encouraging players. We USED to have great fans (and I mean when things were REALLY sh*t) but not any longer. Aplogies to those who do get behind the team but we need to support the team unreservedly between now and the end of the season and keep any acrimony away from SJP.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/7829248.stm Seems like a bit more savvy (and polite) than the way our "supporters groups" go about their business. In reply David Murray said something along the lines of "anyone can make complaints and identify problems, but what we really need are people who can provide solutions". Fair comment I would say.

It's worked elsewhere (and you could argue here with Hall) - is there a fundamental reason why it can't work here? If you say "credit crunch" or some variation then can you tell me there are no more people rich enough, with non-diminished assets, or should I point a few out? Admittedly none of them have expressed any interest but theres nothing to stop them doing so. you are dumb. everyone has been affected by this. I think most "rich" people have suffered more than the average person as most of their wealth tends to be invested in the market, hedge funds and real estate. With the market down as much as it is. Most people at the high end of the spectrum have lost over half their wealth and are not currently in a position to make a luxury buy like a sporting club. Prove it. Investing in football clubs aside the idea that the rich have "suffered" is ridiculous - down to their last couple of billion - my heart bleeds. Also a s*** load of money was made by short selling - who gained from that? The rich may not be standing in line at the soup kitchen, but the desire to plunk 400 million initially and God knows how much in the long term into a football club abates considerably when you've just lost about half of your fortune. Roman apparently lost around 90% of his money during the crisis by the way. And by the summer or the end of the year he'll have it all back. I wouldn't bet on it. This is not like any previous recession/depression.

Theres a lot of 'willing it to be true' too. He sounds just like the German finance minister willing the British economy to fail. Quite typical of the Germans actually, I was in Berlin most of last week and one of the big discussions was how much the NHS is on German telly, with them saying how thats falling apart too. A pattern emerging? I don't think he's willing failure more heralding it. I think the German financial minister was probably doing the same. I think most of Europe would welcome the English game losing it's financial clout and a return to a more level playing field and that seems to be happening. In general I think Germans admire the English game and are less anti than some other nations about our recent dominance. As an Englishman I would like to see the possibilty of a Czech, Romanian or Bulgarian side competing seriously in the European cup as a club built on tradition and national talent rather than 4 English clubs who have bought success and have virtually no local players. (Man Utd excluded - credit where due) You mean Platini? Agreed about the general sentiment but the idea of an open free market for labour, goods and services across the EU wasnt our idea, it was franco-german. When its not to their advantage, they lobby for changes that re-set the system back to their advantage. Personally think, f*** em. Undoubtedly. He hasn't pulled any punches but there are others too. Pretty much agree with your view on the franco-german orchestration of the EU free market, but in football terms I'm just an old fashioned romantic who would like to see some of the great European clubs from smaller poorer nations have a chance to compete again.

Theres a lot of 'willing it to be true' too. He sounds just like the German finance minister willing the British economy to fail. Quite typical of the Germans actually, I was in Berlin most of last week and one of the big discussions was how much the NHS is on German telly, with them saying how thats falling apart too. A pattern emerging? I don't think he's willing failure more heralding it. I think the German financial minister was probably doing the same. I think most of Europe would welcome the English game losing it's financial clout and a return to a more level playing field and that seems to be happening. In general I think Germans admire the English game and are less anti than some other nations about our recent dominance. As an Englishman I would like to see the possibilty of a Czech, Romanian or Bulgarian side competing seriously in the European cup as a club built on tradition and national talent rather than 4 English clubs who have bought success and have virtually no local players. (Man Utd excluded - credit where due) P.S. I think most of Europe holds up the NHS as a classic example of inefficiency and how NOT to spend money. My limited experience would certainly say other European countries (even the poorer Eastern ones) seem to get much better value for money in their health services. But that's another whole big discussion...........

A lot of truth and inevitability in what old Uli is spouting there in finest Ginglish. One things certain - it aint ever gonna be the same as it was and 5 years from now the English Premier League will have a very different look about it.

Someone who undertook due diligence would be a good start, and personally Id quite like them to wear a suit and sit in the directors box as well. All that Look at me down this pint, Im one of the lads me like stuff made was a sure sign Ashley would be trouble. Yeah we'd be much better off with someone that slagged off the locals, mocked the gullible fans and took the piss out of our star player. And took a London hedge fund manager type salary out of the club for doing so, as well as employing family members and cronies like a bent MP would.

I'm struggling to remember the last time I saw a PL ref who looked like he was up to the job and Wiley was the worst yet. As we now import our players from abroad can't we just fire the refs and import the best foreign ones too. Overall not a bad match considering the conditions, credit to Carrol who looked like someone with a point to prove and we're so lucky to have Michael Owen who's class stands out like a beacon. It's been well documented on here what most think about Bellamy but I'd love to see him in a B&W shirt again.

My take on the day in question and match in question was that the atmosphere in town, and in and around the ground that day was vile. We all know why. It had been made worse by constant and repeated TV and media coverage as the press parasites took their usual delight in relaying our scars and pain to the nation and the world. Whatever their individual opinion about what had taken place I think all true Newcastle fans were hurting that day. The atmosphere was as bad as anything I'd ever known. When I walked in the stadium the players were still warming up and my immediate take on the situation was that their body language was terrible their shoulders were down and frankly they looked like a beaten team before a ball had been kicked. Added to everything else we had key players out, a lob sided look to the team, a manager who did not want the job, a young foreign signing thrown straight in at the deep end, Shola making a surprise return and a bench full of kids. If ever a team needed the help of it's supporters it was Newcastle United that day. For that reason any protests should have been kept right OUTSIDE of the stadium. The protests which did occur and inevitably distracted everyone were not in themselves what caused the result but they did have a further negative effect on the outcome. In true Newcastle Online style we're probably at impasse on this one, some think the demonstartions inside the ground were acceptable. I don't.

On a wider point (ie football in general), is anyone else who remembers the time starting to think that the 80s weren't actually that bad after all? There might have been 15-20,000 in grounds on a frequent basis, but at least they all gave a f*** and weren't just doing something to keep little Jonty and India entertained for a couple of hours before the theatre. I agree Brummie, the football seemed more entertaining, the atmosphere and day out were often more fun - it's all so sanitised nowadays. I quite enjoy watching Scottish football on Setanta as it looks more like our game did back then and you can almost identify with the players as fellow human beings as opposed to the 22 full (mainly foreign) internationals of a Premier league game. Many on here (but not many I actually see at the match) are talking about giving up attending next season - citing Ashley as their excuse as he's to blame for all our woes and the world recession too - but frankly most of those who will go are the perpetual whingers or those who jumped on the fashion bandwagon a few years ago - so we may be left with just the real fans again.

Disagree that the standard of football is higher now than 10 years ago - it may be for about 4 or 5 clubs but not for the majority of the Prem - and certainly not for NUFC...! Never said the standard of football was better just the standard of player, and that is down solely to the increased money in the game meaning the premier league has become the preferred destination for most "galacticos". They tend to cancel each other out and I think that as a spectacle the game was more attractive 10 years ago - it certainly was at NUFC !

Kettering were very fortunate to beat Eastwood in the last round, Eastwood were the lowest ranked team in the 3rd round but got no national coverage and they play in black and white stripes. Must be an anti black and white stripe prejudice.

I just posted this in the NUFC future thread but it's probably relevant to the question you asked James. To a football fan success is a relative thing. If, as Gareth Southgate predicts in the article above, the English game faces a "Serie A style collapse" would the true fans who attend the matches be that bothered about it. I don't think so. Most would rather be high up a decent league than at the bottom of the best league in the world. The standard of player we watch in the English game nowadays is far higher than 10 years ago, which in turn was much higher than 10 years before that. Do we enjoy it more ? Probably not. We prefer to see winning football rather than world class football. If the collapse did happen and the mercenaries flee our shores, those who will be most upset will be the Premier League themselves - who presently have the world's best football product, the club's owners - most of whom are Johnny come lately's - and maybe a few "fashion fans" who have latched on to the product as we signed up all the world's best players. OK we may no longer get 3 English clubs in the Champion's League semis but would many real fans be that bothered ?

To a football fan success is a relative thing. If, as Gareth Southgate predicts in the article above, the English game faces a "Serie A style collapse" would the true fans who attend the matches be that bothered about it. I don't think so. Most would rather be high up a decent league than at the bottom of the best league in the world. The standard of player we watch in the English game nowadays is far higher than 10 years ago, which in turn was much higher than 10 years before that. Do we enjoy it more ? Probably not. We prefer to see winning football rather than world class football. If the collapse did happen and the mercenaries flee our shores, those who will be most upset will be the Premier League themselves - who presently have the world's best football product, the club's owners - most of whom are Johnny come lately's - and maybe a few "fashion fans" who have latched on to the product as we signed up all the world's best players. OK we may no longer get 3 English clubs in the Champion's League semis but would many real fans be that bothered ?

A pretty twisted set of figures based on some spurious data sources, still it fills a few pages in 442 and in turn saves a few more journalists and TV stations having to work too hard to find any real news. Who does Cheryl Cole play for ? Has another talented Geordie slipped through the net ?

I don't believe in pissing contest in general but when it comes to football, people who put time, effort and money into actually supporting the team deserve credit for that - I have no problem with anyone anywhere calling themselves a fan and supporting the team in spirit but to pretend they are the same level of fan as those who go to games is ridiculous imo. Nowhere near as ridiculous as calling someone an "enemy of the club" because they disagree with you. It wasn't primarily because you disagreed with me - it was because you implied that the banner could be used by "enemies" which I think is bollocks and leading on from that I think people who support Ashley as fully as I get the impression you do are in my opinion just as much enemies of the club as nebulous media or fans of other clubs. How can anyone be labeled an enemy of the club because they support the present owner is strange to say the least. He may have upset Keegan he may have appointed Wise but he also probably saved the club from the financial Armageddon it was heading towards. Ashley may not be right for Newcastle (personally I think he could be given a chance) But if he is not who is ? While everyone carps on about how bad Ashley is, no one comes up with any tangible, realistic or specific alternative, just the usual abstract slavver - "someone who'll spend big" - "someone who'll back the manager" - "someone who we'll all love" etc etc. Who is this person ? Do we want Freddy and Doug back ? Can we name the Russian oligarch, Saudi prince or Texan oil man who we want to head up NUFC ? Or do we just continue to harp on about what went before and pile abuse on the only person who right now can ACTUALLY do something about NUFC. I know its "romantic" but I don't see Ashley as the club just because he owns it - the club is more than that. I don't know what the alternatives are - I'd like to see a combination of Shepherd, Ashley and Abramovitch but that's not going to happen. However I think expecting Ashley to do anything "good" from now on is naive and that's why I oppose his tenure. As do many others, but unfortunately the combo you describe does not exist and neither does it answer the question. If not Ashley then who ?

Spot on.

I don't believe in pissing contest in general but when it comes to football, people who put time, effort and money into actually supporting the team deserve credit for that - I have no problem with anyone anywhere calling themselves a fan and supporting the team in spirit but to pretend they are the same level of fan as those who go to games is ridiculous imo. Nowhere near as ridiculous as calling someone an "enemy of the club" because they disagree with you. It wasn't primarily because you disagreed with me - it was because you implied that the banner could be used by "enemies" which I think is bollocks and leading on from that I think people who support Ashley as fully as I get the impression you do are in my opinion just as much enemies of the club as nebulous media or fans of other clubs. How anyone can be labeled an enemy of the club because they support the present owner is strange to say the least. He may have upset Keegan he may have appointed Wise but he also probably saved the club from the financial Armageddon it was heading towards. Ashley may not be right for Newcastle (personally I think he could be given a chance) But if he is not who is ? While everyone carps on about how bad Ashley is, no one comes up with any tangible, realistic or specific alternative, just the usual abstract slavver - "someone who'll spend big" - "someone who'll back the manager" - "someone who we'll all love" etc etc. Who is this person ? Do we want Freddy and Doug back ? Can we name the Russian oligarch, Saudi prince or Texan oil man who we want to head up NUFC ? Or do we just continue to harp on about what went before and pile abuse on the only person who right now can ACTUALLY do something about NUFC.