Zero

Not blaming the lad---his injury is simply a trajety---but similar to Cech, they are downgraded from great goalkeeper to good goalkeeper due to injury. Sorry for him tbh, but he is declining. The worst case is we may have to ask Krul to step up next season.

Not just this season, including the last, or even the Souness, SBR era, yes he did have some flashes but I do think he performs, on average, the best in LB. You are right that the evidence isn't that much, and I also agree we should give him a run at LW to see how he performs first, but is it really a bad idea to convert him into a LB, which the France U-21 manager also share the same view? He is shit in positioning but some of his tackling and movement is good, I can still remember that great heading he made during the match versus Asenal, the one that direct save us a goal.

Dave, just a question, don't you think Charles attack better when he plays at LB? I remember when he plays LW he isn't that productive.

1. I did believe that we are an attractive team for managing in the past but now I didn't. Just think, for the last 6 years, how many world class managers have come to England: Mourinho, Benitez, Ramos, Eriksson...ONeill, Grant and Jol arguable but they do have qualities. And that what we get was shittest manager in the league. Yea you can claim that Shepherd was the major factor but on the otherhand I don't think he was stubborn enough to turn down someone like Hitzfield. And ok now what we get is Sam, imo a risky but good choice but definitely not in the same class as Mourinho and Benitez. Is that really mad to think we aren't really that attractive? 2. Ok, this is very arguable I know, but in my opinion you should NEVER think Sam wanna turns Newcastle into another Bolton who just know long ball, header and luck. Again, this is very arguable, but here is my understanding. Sam is a defense-first type manager for sure, and the first priority he is doing in Newcastle is to implement his DEFENSE TACTIC which is proven in Bolton. I am ok for this, and I also don't think anyone will object about this right? If we just evaluate our defense this season, is that really our defense tactic is s***? Or is that some of our playey becomes Bramble again and cost us silly goals? Think again, Fulham, Derby, etc, many goals we lose this season were due to silly mistake of Cacapa and Rozehnal, or the unstoppable fluke goals. When we are using Taylor and Faye, who are less error-prone, our defense looks the most solid one we have since Robson era, even though we are having a LB who is frequently out of position. You can blame Sam for buying two s*** centre back, which is really his fault---f****** hell the Rozehnal is the worse version of Andy O'Brien---but other than that Sam has really did a great job for our defense. I am particularly impressed by his effort for trying to restore our pressing in Robson era. It is completely different from the one under Souness, which our player just running like headless chicken. The defense is much more systematic and consistent---ok, except the s*** errors by the new Bramble/OBrien. The major problem is our offense. Here why I still defend Sam is because I think it is unfair to judge him by Bolton's style. Look at the players he had. Yea you can said they have Diouf, Anelka, or even Okocha or Campo etc but the truth is the players are just s***, so s*** that they are facing relegation immediately. If you are the manager would you ask these type of players, who were acquired due to extremely limited of funds, to play beautiful footballs? In another words, and it is a matter of belief that, do you think Sam is really willing to play like that or just he is forced to? Yea I know everyone will fire me for this and saying what we are doing now is the proof, but I do have different views. In my opinion, he is trying to consolidate the defense, in the highest order, that attacking type players like Emre are sacrificed. Then he will start to make some attacking plays, like long ball, left side attack etc which will not affect our defense. So our attack is simply limited by the players like Butt, Smith, etc who are good tacklers but never a good passer. We are a club much bigger than Bolton, and for sure we should be able to supply more resources to him. My argument here is, due to his preference in consolidating defense and limited human resource(face it), he is forced to play like that. If he has more time and resources, spend some cash and bring in the players he want like Okocha, I don't think he will still ask the team to attack like that. We can definitely play a lot better if we have better players. Just an example, when we have Duff back to the left last game, we really have two wingers and start to play like what we are in the past. He knows how to do it, just he didn't. So here is another problem, which I do think he should be blamed, is that he is clearly showing the message of "I don't care about this season's result", and that's why even Wullie is firing at him. I really understand this and the season ticket holder is calling his head for this. "Oh my god why do that?" "We can play better!" I also have such questions before the Arsenal game but now I understand why: he has written this season off and use it for rebuilding and training his tactics. This is consistent with his words at the start of the season. At that time, he has already claimed that he needs time and ask us to be patient until he can really do something. At that time, I do believe everyone like me thinks that the message is "Sorry the club is problematic and I need a lot of time to change things." And his statement has been already forgotten after the excellent start of the season that we think "The team is good and is capable of a top 6 finish." I think this is correct too, but that makes his message silly right? You can do it immediately then why ask for 2 seasons time? And now when I look back our results, our performances, I think what Sam Allardyce really meant at that time is "Sorry lads, result is not my priority this season, you gotta face a difficult time until I accomplish my tactics, get in the players I want and trained them well." Result is sacrificed for his long term plan, and that's what he meant, in my opinion. The strongest proof, and the only proof I have, is the flashing quality we have made sometimes this season. I don't think people will argue about this too. In our normal setup things are really poor, but sometimes we can also play like a team that definitely can have a top 6 finish. The substitution of Emre, Duff, the hold up play of Viduka and Smith, and impressive pressing tactics we performed during Arsenal...all these are simply non-existent for the last 3-4 years. I know it's f****** irritating to watch the team playing when it's f****** obvious to change a very simple bit and play a lot better, and it's so silly that people either think he is mentally retarded or he is forcing a contract termination by Ashley. But for me, as he has already announced that he needs time and his only priority this season is our defense but not our result, I will give him time to do that. I am also very depressed if we really become the 2nd Bolton but I will only judge that after he has completed his tactics. If he plays long ball, header and luck again I must be on your side, cursing him to die and suffer in Hell etc anything you like. But now, at least now, I understand what he's doing, and I think it is possible that he can success, so I will give him the time he asked, 2 seasons.

Given is not Casillas.

Class post. I think we are Man Utd if using such kinda standard to evaluate the team.

Butt is the one who breaks down most of our play due to very, very poor distribution. I don't understand the logic. Butt is mainly responsible for the pressing defense system and he nearly contributes nothing except two counter attack by risky challenges for our attack, yet people doesn't think it's his fault and say sth like "it should be Barton and Smith's job to pass the ball forward". Jesus. If we have Bellamy we can afford such luxury defensive general who just need to appear during defense. But not now. It's really strange to blame the team for poor long ball tactics while ignoring the fact that it's nearly impossible to do short passing if we have Butt in the midfield.

I classify "rusty" as those who needs time adapt to the change of body due to injuries. Players which has their pace reduced particularly needs more time to adapt. Luckily Barton's game isn't build on pace or we may have another Luque. I hate him tbh, probably another trouble maker like Bowyer, but it's just unfair to fire at him after an half-year injury. Last year Duff needs nearly 3-4 months to become productive before he's down again. I am impressed by him yesterday too, thanks god.

Last year's Duff?

A lot of blame Barton is bearing is due to the benching of Emre---which in my opinion the one who should be dropped is Butt. Barton isn't that bad, and his distribution are far better than Butt. Personally I'm very impressed by his positioning too. Yes he is rusty, he makes some bad choices and isn't that effective as we expected, but he has just backed from a serious injury for a few games and isn't it too harsh to fire him down like that? At least at this moment I'll go for a midfield of Smith-Emre-Barton rather than Butt. But I know Butt is nearly undroppable for Sam.

Of course we could compare with Mourinho, Juande Ramos or even O'Neill if you want, but the truth is we can only attract Souness and Roeder to be our manager, and you can add Gullit into that list. I think it's pretty obvious that we aren't able to attract good managers: Keegan is very debatable, and SBR is mainly due to his personal preference. Whether its down to over-expectation or geographical distance from capital I don't know, it's just a fact. If we can hire Mourinho I don't mind someone assassin Sam asap too. And then tell me what Bolton's like. If that's purely down to running, tackling, long ball and luck in your opinion then no wonder you are getting depressed. Yea, tell me what Bolton's like and why its so successful for over 3 seasons despite great changes within the premiership.

The painful truth so far this season is we get less points when Jose is playing at LB.

Digested version: Sam is sacrificing nearly everything to build up a long term defensive tactics, the one which brings Bolton a chance to play in UEFA Cup. That's what we can have within two years, it is a proven one, but if you don't want it, then just fire him now. Or else have faith and give him 2 seasons to complete the tactic.

Compare with Souness' man management towards Robert and Bellamy, Roeder's with Luque and Milner(this is one of the biggest joke I've ever had), I couldn't believe Sam's can be classified as "shocking". Isn't that pretty obvious what Sam is actually doing? You know his direction and its just you don't like it or disagree with it, but definitely his direction is far far better than the past managers.

Henry is injured. But tbh what Barca did wrong is they played Iniesta as a right winger, a complete waste of talents and time.

Twice already.

No, it isnot Diouf and Anelka. The real ace for Sam during his Bolton reign is Okocha.

The priorities for Allardyce is not the result this season but the completion of his defense tactics. He rates it so high that he is willing to give up attack by putting a midfield that has no chance to build up good plays. That's why I am asking, does it worth to invest 2 seasons for completing his tactics?

I have been watching nearly all the games this season and now I finally realize what he's doing, and why Bolton is so successful while we don't. Sam's true value is on his defense tactics: pressing and counter attack. And that's what he is trying to implement now, ignoring our offense (actually he did but that's another controversial issue) To play this kind of tactics, the most important requirements are player's stamina and commitment. Their technique, comparatively, is not that important. IF it is effective, it is the tactic that can bring us back to CL. Sam use it in Bolton and successfully brings them into UEFA Cup. However if it isn't then we even cannot win against Derby. It is a very risky tactic, but it has been proved successful. So a lot of things can be explained 1. Why use Barton/Smith instead of Emre A. Emre's stamina isn't good enough. Commitment is arguable though. 2. Why we cannot attack A. His priority is to play pressing rather than possession football. In other words, pressing is more important than attacking 3. Why we sucks against Fulham, Derby, etc shitter teams A. Players aren't that committed/focused. The pressing simply collapse if anyone isn't paying 100% effort on pressing. The other scenario is, we play exceptionally well against Arsenal, a match where pressing is completely executed because everyone in the pitch is fully committed. The point is, pressing is a very strong tactic and it has been proved successful before (Bolton and Newcastle under SBR) but I am not sure whether Allardyce has the time for fully implementing it. SBR needs almost 2 seasons for doing that but I don't think Sam will be given 2 seasons for such a poor display. SBR has the time due to his reputation---people always forget that we played very poorly during his first 2 seasons. Just mid-table finish. So,are you willing to give it a try? The pressing tactic? Do you really believe Sam can bring his true value in Bolton to Newcastle? This is a long term question. Rozehnal may be shipped out, Martins may become another Diouf, Given may be sold...who knows. But what we can really expect from Sam is his matured pressing tactic---the one we have been playing before. Possession football is a surplus. Sam may do it AFTER his pressing tactic is finished, but not before. Is a matured pressing tactic what you want? If yes, give him 2 seasons and if not, sack him now. Any decision within this period is a waste of money.

He is not a good choice, but unfortunately, he is our best choice.

Hire a coach to teach him "how to play like Bellamy" Or else really, get some cash back. No wonder Inter sold him. His partnership with Adriano must be a nightmare (for Inter).

If he has Bellamy's sense, I'll do that too. Unfortunately no, he is not a shadow striker.

The problem is, he also doesn't look good when playing Viduka's role. I simply cannot figure out how to use Martins tbh.

If pressing is a failure, the whole midfield is exposed. Smith also plays like that during Leeds days, anyway, the rationale for playing Martins instead of Viduka there is Martins SHOULD HAVE the pace to support both offense and defense. Could you imagine Viduka plays like Milner on the left? The fault is either Sam didn't ask him to defend or he didn't do that. Of course Sam has to bear the blame for the result because he is the one who pick the team, but Martins isn't free from blame either.

No disagreement on Rozehnal. He is finished. Butt's positioning is good actually, but if we are playing pressing game like this, Butt simply cannot remain on his own position. Still remember when Speed was here, playing Butt's position? A lot of people were blaming that his positioning was problematic, and the true reason is SBR was also playing this kinda tactics. Am I the only one who support restoring the pressing tactics?