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Yes, but... I suppose what a lot of people mean by 'unknown' is more 'unknown availability to us'. Working within these tight and in some ways reassuring restraints, somehow or other we keep picking up decent stuff which tend to more than make up for the crap ones, who we can discount as 'bought for their (shit) market worth'. I'm just not sure what's so revolutionary about trying to get value for money. Sure, we sometimes fucked this up in the past (particularly during the Souness era) but we've always brought in good players and bad. As has every team in the league - how much are Hoilett, Samba 'worth' for example? Playing for the team bottom of the league at present. The only difference is that selling the players that do come good and not then investing the fees back into the squad just creates a massive pressure on the scouting and negotating team, not to mention the manager. The cornerstone of our fantastic defence this season and arguably the club's best player at present was a £10m signing on high wages. Ashley's regime has successfully spread this notion that spending more than about £5m automatically equals bad, every time, when it's simply not the case. If we want to go anywhere, at some point what I believe is the current strategy has to change. I think that just highlights how staid and stupid a lot of the (English?) footballing world is. I don't disagree with any of what you say. As you're implicitly suggesting, anyone could have found about Cabaye's release clause, but at the severe risk of sounding like Ozziemandias, they didn't. It's just that we did it even less than most people for the best part of a decade so it feels even stranger for us.

Dunno why I'm doing this... but slowly? Really? Seems like a handsome return at a strong pace. Not sure you'd be able to sell too many investors on the idea that plunking down 200m and getting 20m back five years later qualifies as a handsome return at a strong pace. £130m - any more and the time delay is a product of his own incompetence in getting the club relegated. Don't forget also that if he chose to sell the club he'd get a lump sum of... well, maybe £130m? Maybe more? We'll have to see. Would clear a lot of what he plunked, at least. You see most people don't buy/invest in large businesses in the belief that it should turn them a personal profit which quickly shatters the money they paid to own it in the first place - they hope it's resale value will be as large or larger than their investment, which covers their backs, and take as much money out as they can while owning it in the mean time. If you manage to take so much out in the mean time that you wipe out your initial outlay, while still being able to sell, you've probably made yourself a fucking good investment. Anyway, this is a Tiote thread... just wanted to air the point which is often forgotten that there's nothing slow about the returns Ashley is now making, and so you'd have to wonder why he'd want to sell any time soon.

Yes, but... I suppose what a lot of people mean by 'unknown' is more 'unknown availability to us'. Working within these tight and in some ways reassuring restraints, somehow or other we keep picking up decent stuff which tend to more than make up for the crap ones, who we can discount as 'bought for their (shit) market worth'.

Dunno why I'm doing this... but slowly? Really? Seems like a handsome return at a strong pace.

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/8136/rtaylorfap.jpg

Its wind. Reminds me of the fap meme.

For me, it's not so much a single on pitch moment. Funnily enough given all these tributes, especially from people who aren't the usual suspects, it was his general presence at the club that was iconic, iconic of an era - Bobby naming him as a member of his blue chip brigade in the early days, Bellamy giving interviews in the chronicle saying Speed was his personal minder, helping keep his head together. That's what he really gave us, he was a pillar of our renaissance period in the champion's league. The stuff from Marcelino and things, it really does feel more and more surreal, this.

Don't know if I actually want it, but it's quite a good idea that. Still think it's a bit shitty to be getting into debates over whether someone deserves to be in and all that kind of thing though.

That's The Sun finished if true. New corp, it's time it all ended. Rupert Murdoch, how much blood on your hands do you want? it's more than just that, it's the populace that craves the shitey celeb scandal and tittle tattle, if the population didn't want it they wouldn't have a market to sell it to. I don't read the front pages of papers for that very reason. I can't stand this culture where everyone needs to know the ins and outs of celebrities private lives and how celebrities and such are what everyone looks up to. From the media who expose scandals and tap phones for stories too the magazines who buy the rights to wedding photos of celebrities who have hooked up for the money too the forced fed celebrity "reality" factor TV crap. It's all fucking wrong. And yet, you come running straight into this thread to repeat the gossip? WTF? Irresponsible from Kamara that, how does that help the situation in anyway. He's in grief as well, like...everyone is all over the place about this. You have to make some allowances...I guess?

Not sure but I think they mean how you only need a couple of seconds to decide and act on throwing yourself in front of a train. Would have needed some minutes to hang himself, if not more because not all that many of us have man-strength cord and a strong bannister to hand, and knowledge of how to tie a noose...

Aye that's the one, "Mr Walker said: “He was on great form, cracking jokes and asking about my family and kids. He was talking passionately about the future. There was absolutely no indication at all. “He gave me the impression that he was really looking forward to his kids growing up to be really good footballers and Wales qualifying for the World Cup.”" See this is what I don't understand. I know depressed people must put on a front but to go from waxing lyrical about all your future aspirations to then committing suicide HOURS later, I can't compute it. I know it probably is depression but do you think there's any chance that something may have happened just yesterday that drove him to this??!? something like this must play on a persons mind for ages. i wouldn't think you would just do this on a whim. makes me really sad to think that he has been considering this for a while. Probably the case however I just can't understand how you can talk about your kids etc. like he did knowing in the back of your mind that there's a strong possibility you weren't going to be there to see it. Can't work it out. Again, maybe he thought that if there was any doubt in his mind about killing himself that he had to try and pretend there was no doubt in his mind that he wanted to stay alive - in order to stop others worrying and let his kids grow up not expecting to find something terrible behind every closed door, especially if it would have been for no good reason had it turned out he did manage to 'survive' himself in the end, so to speak.

Aye that's the one, "Mr Walker said: “He was on great form, cracking jokes and asking about my family and kids. He was talking passionately about the future. There was absolutely no indication at all. “He gave me the impression that he was really looking forward to his kids growing up to be really good footballers and Wales qualifying for the World Cup.”" See this is what I don't understand. I know depressed people must put on a front but to go from waxing lyrical about all your future aspirations to then committing suicide HOURS later, I can't compute it. I know it probably is depression but do you think there's any chance that something may have happened just yesterday that drove him to this??!? On the one hand you can just compartmentalise your mind/life - have a 'this is what I'm going to do if I don't feel terrible' story as well as a 'this is what will happen if I do' one. On the other he could just have become reasonably sophisticated at lying to people and covering up his reality. The thing with lies is they're all the easier to tell if the recipient isn't expecting to hear them, and as has been shown today, most people couldn't even imagine him not thinking his life was sound, so any indication to the contrary was easily glossed over.

It is as though something funny happened in their heads. Like the world was finally so hard on them that they had to lose grip on reality to keep themselves going, they couldn't let themselves believe their moment in the sun was going to be so brief and relatively shit. We were supposed to go out of business in Division 2/3 and they were supposed to go onwards and upwards into Europe under Niall Quinn. When that was shattered it was like a rape victim detatching herself and thinking happy thoughts... I don't remember nearly as many of them rambling about being classy and a bastion of morality before that day. Won't forget them leaving the game early. You're away supporters in the derby, you're supposed to be fucking stormtroopers, not leaving before half time.

RIP, awful. Feel sad for him and all affected.

Still on his feed, basically got called a nigger out of the blue.

What a fucking knacker. Was gonna ask what was said, but surprised and pleased its still on Sammy's feed. Leave it there, Phipps looks like a wanker.

Have to pop on and say fucking well done to the man

Haven't you followed this club for the past 5 years?

Amnesty on your request, which only remains fulfilled as I say kill him with fire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackanory

Should distinguish between the impact of the Premier League and the Champion's League, in fairness. I'd say the latter has done far more for stultifying things.

its just a myth he suddenly came good in the Championship imo. It's not your opinion, it's fact. Only occasional fantasisers are saying otherwise.

Ah.