80

Says it all.

Of course Llambias will put the Ashley case, what else could he do? Llambias is an absolute c*nt and everyone knows what Ashley is about and how he operates, we've seen what's happened here and we can all read how he operates with Sports Direct. But this whole " different agenda" stuff that you refer to - it involves completely f*cking and drastically reducing the value of a business he's stuffed hundreds of millions into does it? It involves playing yo-yo with the leagues and surrendering tens of millions in revenue? We lost to Fulham and may well lose to Arsenal, dark forces are at work... A good employee would give his boss his best, most honest opinion, so he could do that - I'm just pointing out that there will be less to divide him and Ashley on than James would like because Llambias will make sure there is. Ashley (and Llambias?) will solemnly believe we won't go down this season, so they've taken no real risks as far as they're concerned. Most supporters' agendas involve us trying to retain our best players and going up the league, eventually into Europe etc. - and therefore their financial advice will be geared to it. Yes, I don't think this is a high priority for Ashley. They're more interested in not going down with a team not financially designed to go down, which means certain investments 'football people' think are sensible aren't good ideas.

Yup. Not wanting to jump the bandwagon, but with Ameobi out for a few weeks at least and only really Best, Ranger and Lovenkrands as striking options, I'd say we really need to be mindful of a possible relegation dogfight on our hands. I'd take 17th now too. Dogfight Not laughing at the idea it can happen, just the idea of having Pardew running the trenches. There'll be lot more finger-pointing and a lot less togetherness than there would have been.

You're speaking a lot of sense James, and I could talk about ways and times to start pursuing this, but my overall feeling is that the opportunity for focusing on him has passed. Long story short, I can't see a protest against Llambias not quickly getting dragged onto Ashley, or being seen by Ashley as attacking him also. And I can't see judicious business criticisms being made that will move Ashley and turn him against Llambias because most people doing the criticising still aren't able to understand the business model Ashley and Llambias are working with - the speculate to accumulate message a lot of people would like to promote means next to nothing to Ashley, he's got a different agenda. Furthermore, I think Llambias will make it his business to say or agree with whatever he thinks Ashley thinks on any issue that could affect his future, so criticisms of him will still be criticisms of Ashley... though I give you that Ashley might be good at forgetting he also thought something stupid was a good idea at the time and blaming someone else...

I like him too, but we need someone to at least threaten the Arsenal defence with a goal... Good as he is, I doubt Nolan can manage that on his own.

I'd like to know what Nolan wants for this club, what he thinks we're aiming for.

No my mate who works at the Academy told me this No, wasn't having a go - the last bit was separate. I know he told you, I was wondering who he said had told him/believes the story - Carroll's friends or Pardew kind of thing.

P.S. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/02/article-1352777-0D0285BF000005DC-118_468x689.jpg Even funnier when you notice the heels.

TheGuv, who told your mate this? That aside, I think I'll throw some conjecture of my own into the thread. Like James Milner did, Carroll 'probably' agreed a £25k 5 year contract with the club on a good faith basis, and was led to believe it would soon increase if appropriate in line with his career progression. On the day he was sold, he was 'probably' told he won't be getting a rise until nearly the end of the long term deal and that he shouldn't have signed it if he didn't like it. 'Accept this or make a transfer request'.

Wow, never seen the 'just sold him so let's underrate him' effect on here so strongly before. I appreciate Yorkie specifically was talking about 'best spells' at NUFC, but still, to see Owen, Martins and Viduka's name mentioned ahead of Carroll in this thread... fucking hell All things considered, he's potentially the best front man we've had, certainly shy of a pre-injury Shearer. I say front man to distinguish from Bellamy, Beardsley et al. Throw them into the mix and the conversation maybe becomes too much about team strategies and too little about the individuals.

The Club captain has no right to go on LFC website and do what he did. Its a fucking disgrace and shows his paymasters a complete lack of respect. Don't expect to disagree with that.

Haven't seen what he said, but the quote I've seen about him advising Carroll to 'go for it' doesn't have to mean 'you should go to Liverpool'. It might well have been said after things were basically sealed and he's advised Carroll not to get too down about how the transfers come about and instead to keep focused and make the best of his career and this new phase - attack the challenge. Would be good advice from a friend, too. This interview does seem to be very ill-advised, though. Furthermore, if he had the opportunity (I don't know that he did), I think as club captain he should have advised and encouraged Carroll to stick to his guns about staying here (I'm not someone who thinks Carroll is a cunt who forced it), for his and the club's good. There'd only be one good reason I can think for not doing that, and that's if he thinks Carroll's been screwed and the club is designed to just use, abuse and sell-on young footballers, in which case he shouldn't in the offer more than the thinnest defences of the regime in the future. I'm not assuming this is the case, by the way. All this said, I'm not going to immediately forget everything Nolan has done for this club like some on here obviously have. He may have fucked up here, he may have fucked up big time, but he's the best captain I've known as a supporter and he's given us a lot.

Fingers crossed.

how many times will you stand and be kicked in the nuts before you decide to move out the way? how many times will you stand and shout at a brick wall before you realise it won't move out of the way... and take a jackhammer to it instead? Fyp.

I did wonder at the time that if Whelan hates Ashley that much, he might consider accepting for the shits and giggles of the aftermath.

Fwiw, I think he really was just interested.

Exactly what I thought. Especially with it being Charles f***ing N'Zogbia - a player at the forefront the last time a complete and utter farce like this occured. My Sunderland supporting friend made a fairly obvious and good point tonight: 'Why wait till 10 minutes to go when the deal was tied up at 6?' Why, Llambias was driving to Wigan of course, as David Craig informed us.

Is it the 'real' Donaldson? Was he talking about accepting £35m? Was he talking about leaving the Toon for Liverppol? Its twitter. Yeah I know, caveats coming out my arse, but there's no joy in talking to anyone if you have to write/speak them every time.

I was going to say that one upside of the day for me has been that none of this has hurt in the slightest. In broad terms I've expected these negative developments for a while so I've already been able to react to them. But I've realised I'm wrong - what Donaldson said, that disturbs me.

this is how i see it. im a massively optimistic person in my life- but fuck me theres nothing optimistic here. I believe when he realised he paid too much for the club- the debt etc. he set about trying to recoup that in any way possible, untill he can sell- get out wihout a loss. he just got 35 million pounds closer today. One of the few possible good things I can see in this.

Souness is on the verge of smacking him, it's quite good

Wouldn't be surprised if he realises that getting his life straight off the pitch is almost priceless, too. What with the team spirit and this girlfriend of his, it seems he's more settled here than he's been probably since he was a child, if not his whole life, so moving could (though hopefully wouldn't) put that at risk. Not that the Board should take the piss, but there should be a deal that suits everybody.

Indeed, it's unfair but it's going to be easier to pin bad things on him than good ones, in my view. All the same, you can only call things now as you see them. If we're talking about Pardew's performances and not Ashley's, what Hughton would have done is as irrelevant as what Mourinho would've done - both better managers in my view but there's no point in mentioning either. We can just judge where the club was when Pardew took over, and judge what he's done with it subsequently. For me, things could have already become a hell of a lot worse and haven't - which I give him credit for - but haven't gone as well as they could, which I criticise him for.

No, it wasn't aimed at you - what you said wasn't that bad and I honestly can't remember the faces on here that have that attitude, so not going to hold it against you. Can't say I've seen anyone with the view you talk about, but fair enough, it would be wrong. My main position is I will call his actions as I see them for better or for worse, couldn't take myself seriously if I didn't. In the short term things haven't been as bad as they could have been - I give him some credit for the big issues off the pitch (seemingly keeping most of the squad onside and not changing things for the sake of it), but definitely haven't liked his most obvious choices on it. Time will help tell what good things and what bad things he deserves praise and blame for in this period, though - e.g. whether he reverted to 4-4-2 because of injuries (good luck) or an intelligent free choice. If he starts making good choices more often, his old choices will look better too (I'll honestly hold my hands up we ever come to realise he's really good at improving the performances of young goalkeepers). I do think he'll likely play a part in spoiling the good thing we had/have if he's given the chance i.e. squad attitude - by buying dickheads, by victimising people, or mouthing off and having us return to the backpages, and eventually the frontpages. While he may not kill it himself, I just don't think he could have created it himself, or can protect it on his own once it comes under serious attack. The question is how we've got until the serious assaults come, therefore. For me, the Board are the biggest problem and will beat him to fucking anything up - I've said before, even if Pardew's an angel they'll just screw him like they've screwed every other decent contributor this club's had. It's starting to seem fairly obvious the politics between him and them are under way, and it's part of the reason I think he's a desperate fool if he really did come here to try and become one of our great managers.