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Honest question, when does it stops being Hughton's team and starts becoming Pardew's? And if Hughton gets the credit for our current form, then does he also takes the blame for any of our shortcomings? Second question first, potentially yes - same as Allardyce took blame for how long Keegan needed to restore the team's confidence and get them playing football again. After that, it's a question of what you think the team's shortcomings are and how much Hughton had to do with it. Long story short, I think we've generally operated near the squad's maximum capacity of talent (physically, mentally etc.). That said, particularly seeing as he had a record of consistently improving us when give funds and authority, you also have to take into account the lack of transfer funds and piss-taking over issues such as having almost no coaching staff when looking for reasons why we've now got shortcomings. First question, well, the judgement is an art, not a science. Once a few ruptures have taken place (for better or for worse), basically. Things like signings, promotions and demotions, arguments caused or averted, injury rates. When things are regularly done that wouldn't have been done otherwise (unless it's really obvious he would've chosen to if he'd been given a clean sheet of paper, to be fair). The team is more his when he chooses to play Barton on the left wing and drop Williamson for Taylor, and less his when it's like it was against Sunderland (when the teamsheet 'picked itself', as a lot of people said). Would anyone seriously argue this is Pardew's team yet? I'm not insisting on giving Hughton all the credit, I never did when he was here, but I think doing the opposite is a totally laughable idea.

How can you say that? Seriously, what evidence is there? Results, performances etc. I see far more worrying signs in the Pardew era than promising signs mind. I'm extremely worried for next season and I wouldn't discount a relegation battle this term just yet either despite our decent enough position. Again, not really based on anything but ok. The results are going our way, we're performing well and the players still seem happy enough. Making additions to the squad aside, I can't see how anyone can do anything but praise Pardew so far Going on what you've seen of him so far, how do you imagine things would have turned out if Pardew had been in charge when Carroll broke Taylor's jaw? And then got arrested for assaulting a girl. While already up for glassing a lad on a night out. I think it's fair to imagine things wouldn't have stayed so quiet and we wouldn't have a £30m+ striker in our team. So there's at least one reason for me to have concerns about switching Hughton for him, just for starters. I'm not convinced of Pardew's ability to handle 'events'. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and actually wait until he faces an 'event' and how he handles it before I decide how he can handle them. The point is, I couldn't care less what Hughton did or didn't do. He's gone and he's not coming back. We need to move on and look forward. We can't keep having Pardew living in Hughton's shadow otherwise we'll be straight back into trouble before we know it. In the circumstances I'll wait and see too, but in life I prefer to try and spot brick walls before I walk into them. I'll give you that HTT hasn't exactly fully explained his view, but you can't discount 'results and performances' as 'nothing' to base an opinion on. Given the only half-decent results and performances we've had have come when he's remembered to try and mimic what we'd been doing previously, and he's come out and said he wants to retain the culture that already exists in the squad, it seems reasonable to say he's operating in Hughton's vein. Sometimes I see people with this daft attitude that absolutely nothing should be predicted until it's already happened. And then, usually, it's "We couldn't have known, you never said anything. Well it's done now, we have to move on, stop harping about it". Never mind Hughton - that was more of an Ashley reference, just pretend I said 'concerned about having him managing us'.

Im not normally a pessimist, but this could go either way. Next time we are in the lead, doubts could start creeping in as we try even more desperately to keep it. The dilemma is, what do you do? Go all out and try to get a 2nd? or shut up shop and park the bus (cliche-tastic ). Obviously it depends on who the opponents are, how long is left, and the actual match conditions (are we playing home or away, did we sneak a goal against the run of play, are we walking all over them but can't finish) etc... Very mildly interesting that we've had 2 game-changing goals scored against us in injury time and scored 0 ourselves in his 8 games, whereas the previous 19 games saw us score 2 and concede 0.

Doesn't say we're selling him because Woodman doesn't like him though, does it? Especially given your man Routledge getting hastily chucked to QPR, I wouldn't be surprised to discover Pardew is being told to clear players before he can get many more, and I've never believed we'd possess both Krul and Forster beyond the next 18 months, probably less. One of them is going, and given the way Pardew whipped Krul out the team, he's not going to get many opportunities to prove he should be the one to stay.

Very believable, and I have to say I don't rate him too highly myself - relative to where (we've always hoped and predicted) he could be at least. Still think it was wrong to drop him in the way that he was dropped. But, main thing I'd say is I hope we make sure we get top dollar for him because he's still highly rated across Europe, and don't lower his value by shifting blame onto him for bad results...

No, don't think anyone thought that - more that they have a 'do it for themselves' attitude, which Hughton seemingly helped create and protect. As I say, I genuinely give Pardew some credit for not managing to destroy it yet.

How can you say that? Seriously, what evidence is there? Results, performances etc. I see far more worrying signs in the Pardew era than promising signs mind. I'm extremely worried for next season and I wouldn't discount a relegation battle this term just yet either despite our decent enough position. Again, not really based on anything but ok. The results are going our way, we're performing well and the players still seem happy enough. Making additions to the squad aside, I can't see how anyone can do anything but praise Pardew so far Going on what you've seen of him so far, how do you imagine things would have turned out if Pardew had been in charge when Carroll broke Taylor's jaw? And then got arrested for assaulting a girl. While already up for glassing a lad on a night out. I think it's fair to imagine things wouldn't have stayed so quiet and we wouldn't have a £30m+ striker in our team. So there's at least one reason for me to have concerns about switching Hughton for him, just for starters. I'm not convinced of Pardew's ability to handle 'events'.

Totally agree. Hated the last couple of World Cups as an Englishman but can find enjoyment in the failure of a lot of the players in the 'team'. Absolutely gutless, I loathe them. There needs to be a massive overall of the contents of the squad. An England team should be more than the sum of it's parts, not less.

bugger

Been meaning to post in this thread since the mackems. Seems some think you have to post views on here that go against your fundamental outlook in order to give your fundamental outlook credibility. Would have liked to have done a bigger and more thoughtful post but haven't got the time or inclination atm, especially as I'd like to say it before we put in a decent performance tomorrow as we might. Basically, I probably have to give him a reasonably sized chunk of credit to the way he's performed since he came in. Don't like him. Still expect it to turn out relatively badly through his own fault if we pretend Ashley isn't going to beat him to it. Think Hughton would have got as good/better results. And after the Stevenage game was genuinely concerned that we'd go down this season due to his brainless selections/strategy/tactics/comments. All the same, whether it was through good luck or not, he rectified a number of his mistakes with his Sunderland choices, as he had done after the Tottenham/Man City games. Overall he's not managed to fuck up as much as he could have in 6 weeks or so. He's at least got an inkling of what side his bread's buttered with this team/club and seems to have generally not yet stood in the way of the flow of our excellent of squad of men, who if largely left to their own devices will make any manager's job relatively easy. Fwiw though, I've always remembered Pardew's initial job, at Reading, which was a fair bit more successful than his later efforts. I really did have some more insightful things to say the other day when I first intended to post this but this post hasn't worked out that way unfortunately. Oh well. Another time. Anyway, onwards lads to the next catastrophe...

What you have to remember is that Shola sees himself as English so he was probably waiting on an England call up which I suppose I can understand as he did play for fairly well for England U21s. That's probably a bad move on his part because the lad could never have made it in the full squad with the strike competition and now he's too old for Capello to really go for him now he has his sights on the youngsters. I understand your frustration with him, though. I'm sure I'd feel the same way if the roles were reversed. At a young age he had Robson going on at him about playing for Nigeria being inconvenient too.

It went downhill all the way from the day the whistle blew on that game and cuntface turned up. Very good to have him back but just as surprised considering his views on the current regime. Pardew must have really done a job on him to persuade him to come. Maybe yes, very interesting appointment.

I think he's saying Babel's offence was worse than Tiote's and it's mental that they each got the punishments they did, but his brain could just be melting.

I think the thing with him is he's not a standalone top player, the sort who'll do well in any side, but he's an excellent team player. He has/will take a game or two to get up to speed after being messed around by Pardew, but we're a more solid force with him alongside Colloccini and cooperating, instead of someone like Taylor running off like a wayward dog.

True enough, but I honestly have never encountered a decent Stoke supporter, never mind the internet. Weird place, loathsome part of the world.

Almost crying with laughter

Think it's more about approaching him in the right way. Not being unnecessarily combative and explaining why a particular offer is being made will work better than telling him like it or lump it. Unfortunately we're run by lump it merchants so not confident this will be handled in the right way. He's stubborn, so if they insult him he'll go, even for somewhere worse.

What would you say that would be? Not amounts, but relatively - would you think a freeze or reduction would be reasonable? Yes, very possibly. Can't speak about the specifics of his contract, but don't get me and my original comment wrong, I'm open-minded about what reasonable would be. I'm just concerned that they'll ask him to take Division 2 standard wages and start slandering him to journalists if he doesn't accept it and say thank you.

This thread suggests not Unless he's playing the game where you upset as many as you can so you can flush out the one that wants to defends you

Hope it's a reasonable offer they make him.

I think one of the things to be said is that most people wouldn't give a shit either way if otherwise he was a decent manager. If in the long term he does well this will be forgotten about, but in the mean time there's about as much reason to be sceptical about him as there was Souness, Roeder, Allardyce and Kinnear. So unless he talks well, and he really doesn't talk well, then he should keep quiet. As it is, it isn't just the sound of his voice on me that I'm concerned about but its effect on the players.

In my guts, them scoring three or four feels logical. Tiote getting wasted is critical. Probably get something back for ourselves but a comfortable victory for them.

Disagree and agree at the same time. I don't think the rules should punish the best of the best for doing something they are competent at. They should discourage the lesser ability players stay safe though. I don't think players should be exempt from the rules/common sense just because they're of a better standard... Not really making this argument myself, but for the sake of it, should common sense apply to uncommon people..?

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2011/01/10/alan-pardew-red-card-was-the-turning-point-72703-27959254/ So being 2-0 down with less than 20 minutes to go against a Division 4 team was not a big problem, as there was a good chance our team of shot, tired players could have suddenly begun to outfight their highly motivated opposition. It was the sending off which ended our hopes. Just shut up. Learn from Hughton and stop saying embarrassing things. Nobody will hold it against you, nobody dislikes a silent winner. So shut up, and if you're as good as you think you are, you'll be alright.