Rich

IF we can get 3-5 top class players, then it could be enough. It all depends on the quality though. Pointless buying 3-5 more of the sort of players we got in the summer, they will all need to be a cut above.

i have never seen a better atmosphere in an all seated SJP than a standing SJP, So to me that would suggest standing means a hell of alot to an atmosphere. Also no one rely's on the ultras for an atmosphere most just take the piss out of them which yet again proves my point about how less people care about atmosphere. As for one game when the ground was buzzing woopdyfuckingdoo. and for anyone wondering i sit in the gallowgate upper and aint a toon ultra but the stick they get off some people is embarrassing. Cheers for backing us mate. Can I really ask why we get so much stick too? What difference is there between us and the Leazes/Gallowgate ends of the past, or other singing sections. We are just doing what half of you used to do, but we have to be an organisation now to do it, due to the lack of singing sections. People should fuck off home if they don't like an atmosphere or want to ridicule those that do want one. But that's only my opinion, no offence anyone. How many people on here ridicule you lot, bar Crumpy? Not many at all, so wind your neck in.

Carrick was imperative to Spurs' revival man. If there's any chance of him coming, we have to go for it.

I just look back fondly on how threatening we'd seem when the 'keeper would collect the ball from an opposition attack, N'Zogbia would be screaming for it in space on the left, he'd receive the ball and turn with an almighty roar from the ground cheering him on. He can turn defence into attack far quicker than any of our other players, which we haven't seen at all this season unfortunately. We do everything at such a slow pace these days that little outlets like this could make a massive difference to us.

Aye Tron, but that's exactly my point. Why use Duff in the current team when it's clear he can do next to nowt? N'Zogbia has played with worse players than this and performed to a high level, so I don't see why he can't do it again. I'd say N'Zogbia relies more on individual ability and his natural attributes than he does on team-mates, unlike the Duff of today.

More than likely... although signing a player who can pick the ball up in the middle of the park, get his head up, and pick out a pass to a player bombing on ahead of him would do wonders for our side. Agreed, that would certainly be the first part of the puzzle, but when you look at Arsenal in particular they've been moulded into what they are over a number of years. Hleb, Rosicky, Fabregas, van Persie have all been brought into that ethos and have been because they are players who Wenger and his scouts have realised will be able to play that way. I just hope people aren't expecting us to get anywhere near that level, even by August, it will take a hell of a lot longer than that and even then it's questionable that it's how KK will set us up to play.

It's funny how we're only just hearing that standing = good atmosphere now that someone has started a bandwagon off somewhere. Haven't heard it used in an Ultras argument previously. As for relying on the Ultras for an atmosphere, that certainly wasn't the case at the best atmosphere I've seen in St. James' in recent years - the 1-0 win over Chelsea when Carr got sent off and Bramble scored the goal. The whole place was jumping and we carried the team to the final whistle in that match and it had everything to do with circumstance and nowt to do with standing. That's what I think me and Alex are getting at. Nobody can have 100% support 100% of the time, it's just so plastic man, it's not a realistic aim and it's not natural human instinct. I get annoyed with the atmosphere as well, as I'm sure most of us do, but if Keegan gets the team playing again and we start having a proper go at everyone who comes up here, then we'll be much better off for it inside the ground. There's certainly a lot more to it than standing.

He looked quite sharp when he returned but his end product has been zero. He also looks like one of those players you can count on least when it gets tough. I've not given up hope on Duff working out for us, because his class is sometimes evident. He's another player mightily handicapped by our central midfield/strikers. He at least looked interested and was involved plenty against Man Utd, although most of our initial threat came down the right thanks to Milner and Beye. This is why I think it won't take ridiculous numbers of changes to make us compete again, because we have players who will look infinitely better with some quality players to feed off. Obviously some of them aren't good enough - both central midfielders and the target men we've been playing, and we're still crying out for a proper centre half/left-back. A lot of our players aren't beyond saving though. Duff has lost a bit of pace, but he could still play his part here. Not now though, and not at left-wing. Where do you think Duff could play for us, if not at left-wing? I think he should be sat on the bench at the moment, then tried in behind Owen/Martins if one gets injured or the partnership doesn't work/isn't given a chance. He looks to me to be a player who now needs pace around him to function properly, because he seems to have the eye for a bit of pass-n-move, unlike any of our other midfielders. At Blackburn in particular he had all the tricks and a lot more pace than he has now, which meant he still performed to an exceptional level because he could do a lot by himself - much like I've seen N'Zogbia do for us. Now that he's lost that extra yard, he struggles to beat people to the byline and looks to have started to model his game on feeding balls into the strikers and then running off them - quite probably the way he was trained to play at Chelsea. Unless our playing style alters dramatically away from what it is now and what I expect Keegan to play (fairly direct attacking football with two wingers and two mobile central midfielders, fullbacks bombing on, etc.) then I'm struggling to see him as a first choice player. Sitting on the left-flank I get to see a fair bit of Duff from a good vantage point and I'm yet to see him square up to a man, take it past him to the byline and swing a ball in. All of his crosses come from stationary positions, making it nigh-on impossible for the strikers to do anything worthwhile with them. The best game I've seen Duff have was AZ home last season, when him and Martins linked nicely together and Duff was often in acres of space (more to do with AZ's formation than anything, IIRC) - but that was a one-off because AZ played in such a strange fashion. It's a puzzle, but for me there's only one winner between Duff and N'Zogbia for that LW spot in the current climate.

The fact you keep harping on about that shows just how obsessed you are with putting the kid down. And he's probably the best player we've got (certainly one of the best). It's idiots like that who hated Robert man, because they couldn't see what he offered outside of "not tracking back." Got a fucking cheek telling Tron he doesn't understand the game like

Aye, it's plain to see the drive is there and he's looked a lot sharper with each passing game. He's still offering nowt though, like the rest of them. The only reason I'm using to put N'Zogbia up there in his place is that he can make something happen from nothing, he has the pace to beat one or two men and get to the byline. Duff cannot do it. N'Zogbia has been the heartbeat of this team in some of our darkest days in recent years, there's no reason why he can't do it again. There have been times when he has been the only player to create anything for us, which can also be said of Milner. There was a time last season where Milner looked like the only player capable of creating a chance or smashing one in himself, Duff is yet to offer this to us.

Is Butt joining Smith on the scapegoat list then? Finally?

Very hard thing to solve though, innit? I think an idiot could see that it's where we are lacking when compared to Man Utd/Arsenal, but it takes a lot more than a signing or two to fix.

He looked quite sharp when he returned but his end product has been zero. He also looks like one of those players you can count on least when it gets tough. I've not given up hope on Duff working out for us, because his class is sometimes evident. He's another player mightily handicapped by our central midfield/strikers. He at least looked interested and was involved plenty against Man Utd, although most of our initial threat came down the right thanks to Milner and Beye. This is why I think it won't take ridiculous numbers of changes to make us compete again, because we have players who will look infinitely better with some quality players to feed off. Obviously some of them aren't good enough - both central midfielders and the target men we've been playing, and we're still crying out for a proper centre half/left-back. A lot of our players aren't beyond saving though. Duff has lost a bit of pace, but he could still play his part here. Not now though, and not at left-wing.

Johnny making sense as usual. All I can suggest is that Enrique is awful in training. Whether that simply be his attitude/application, who knows, because he seems an able enough player. It's strange that both Allardyce and Keegan have opted for N'Zogbia and Carr ahead of him. Too much ice cream from Nut's mate at the Metro Centre??

this is a good point. perhaps some of his flaws could be improved if he spoke better english? fao The Janitor: did you notice my thread's initial cap? It was magical stuff, aye! You missed the capital Z off N'Zogbia like

It's easier to support the two best teams in England though, especially when they're playing each other and one is winning 4-0. Like others have said, it's a two-way street. It can't be all one or the other.

Yes, but it was poor awareness, not because he had a poor attitude / didn't care. I'd make allowances for Duff and Milner in the same situation too, given they aren't defenders either. Was just posting the same response. The fact that he was up against Rooney, who must be one of the best around for ghosting in like he did, as well, would have been added. People have short memories as far as N'Zogbia and Milner are concerned, while the likes of Duff - who is yet to really do anything for us - are hailed as "being almost back to their best". If we lose N'Zogbia in the summer, I for one will be extremely downhearted because of it. He's one of a very minute group of players we have who is capable of creating something out of nothing, but he struggles to do it from LB. I'd rather play Duff there and start N'Zogbia in midfield, if Enrique isn't going to get a sniff and the former has to be selected.

Erm, who does?

In which case he's not much use to us at the moment. We need players who are going to give their team-mates a lift. He can be George Best for all I care, but if he's going to stand there looking gormless while a player runs past him then we'd be better off with someone with a better attitude. Think that's a very unfair post Bob, he looked disgusted with himself after their first goal. Accepting responsibility and chastising himself for it. Certainly looked like he cared to me.

Is Woodgate still overpriced? Overrated? A crock? Fucking sickeningly fantastic again today. Where are all the spazzoids who were saying he's finished? Tottenham deserved to win that game today, because Chelsea were fucking shite and Grant completely bottled it. Fair play to the bastards.

Classic Yorkie.

Carroll is ineffective most of the time because even when he wins the ball with a header it goes nowhere because we rarely win the second ball. He's a god prospect but have we got the players who can help him and bring him through to realise his potential? At least Keegan is trying to get the team to play the ball on the ground which should benefit Martins and Owen more than Owen and a tallish player. I haven't seen too much evidence of us playing "on the ground" since the first half against Bolton, which Keegan himself admitted wasn't working - probably because our defenders aren't good enough on the ball to start attacks. He went on to say he'd have to change the style - which has appeared to mean back to a direct gameplan. Since then, every goalkick is pumped long, we're seeing a lot of lofted balls from the defence up to Smith and he's not winning too many of them, because he gives about 3 inches up to most PL centre halves. Carroll has a square head, aye, but he's an unknown quantity and has the ability to unsettle people. He was instrumental in our goal yesterday and we seemed to have a bit more of a threat when he came on. I do realise Man Utd took their foot off the pedal somewhat at 3-0 like! People hoping for us to play it attractive/on the deck this season are in for a disappointment, if you ask me. I think KK realises we just have to scrap and get a win here and there. Next season the football will hopefully improve along with it.

Ameobi's the one who should be getting a game imo, until Martins is back at least. Blimey, that's a depressing thought.

If people could drop 1 player and 1 player alone, who would it be out of the starting XI from yesterday? Nicky Butt versus Alan Smith for me, much like in the "who can get most bookings" competition they seem to be having between each other. I'll go for Butt, because I fucking hate the bloke. If I say "dink" about him, do people realise what I'm referring to?

I'm still not over this result. Only a Chelsea victory this afternoon will see my spiritual balance restored.