Rich

That's sort of my point, the bold bit, we (as in me and you) can't really value a player because we never know the whole story. The clubs involved are the ones who matter, along with the player himself and the agent, that's why I try to avoid talking values these days. I have my own opinions on value, of course, but they've been proven to be "wrong" so many times by strange deals in the past that I've decided it's best left up to the people who pay and receive the money to decide what a player is worth. There have been many times where I've thought "bargain" or "that's a fucking rip off" only to be proved entirely wrong in the future, which is why when people say "he's worth £5M, no more" it narks me, because it's nowt more than a prediction that they're passing off as fact. A lot is dependent on what the needs of the buying club are positionally, how much the player wants to come, etc. I've said all of that recently, but there are dozens of reasons for a player's price, not all of which the likes of me and you ever know. I understand that everyone has their opinions on what people are worth (most are proven to be fucking wrong, like, as I've said) and that it's part and parcel of football discussion, it doesn't make them any less daft though. I do understand that a lot of people will probably disagree with this philosophy, but it's serving me well. I understand that I'm just a supporter, who has no real say in the grand scheme of what my club does and that I don't know half as much about the game as the people involved at the top levels do, it's why I've become more critical of those who act like they know best all of the time when it comes to formations/signings/values, etc. It's fair enough having an opinion and saying what you'd like to see, but there are many on here who say "do this, do that, play him, drop him, spend this, spend that and THEN things WILL get better" as though they are the fucking oracle of all things football. It's amusing, yet tedious at times.

To come here, by the sounds of it.

I can see what you are saying - I suppose it depends how much we really want him, and how long we'd be prepared to wait - I mean, if the club think/know they can still conclude a deal on deadline day, they may wait until then to make the improved bid - leaving Derby with less time to reject it to wait for a higher bid. In the meantime, we see if anyone comes in, and whether they bid higher than we are prepared to. But, I suppose Solano travelled to West Ham on Deadline day and signed before midnight, so the deals can be sorted in a short space of time, if everything is agreed quick enough. Well said, those are the keys. If nobody else comes in then the ball is definitely in our court, if he is to move then it'll all happen on deadline day when things start getting close. It's all about leverage, and the close of the transfer window is a seriously good time for buying clubs as far as leverage is concerned, that's why so many deals go through at the last minute. It's in Derby's interests to create as much attention in Barnes as possible and to try and fuel a bidding war, if it happens then they've got all the power and they'll make a fortune, if it doesn't and only we're in for him, then this apparently low offer could prove to be a masterstroke and we could get him for less than what some people would expect. There's a lot more to it than just whacking a big bid in, unfortunately.

When Chimbo is in the party everybody put up they hands, he'll get a half-a-mil from the Toon, you pay a couple grand... Whenever you call him "Chimbo" it reminds me of that song (Give it to me by Timbaland/Nelly Furtado/Timberlake)

Yorkie: (I like this star thing) *You never know, do you? If it was £2m then it's setting a low bar for any increased offers down the line. You're not seeing my point in that we start at £5m then they probably reject anyway and hold out for more money - that tends to be how these sorts of deals work. If we go straight in all guns blazing with a daft offer then we're showing our hand, letting the world know we have crazy money to spend and Derby would most likely be inclined to try and get more out of us. It's surely better to be a closed-book when it comes to transfers, but of course we still need to try anything possible to get the players that the manager thinks we NEED. I think I trust the club more than I trust you and TT, mind, and I'd trust the club more than myself as well. If you think we could tie a deal up for Barnes without clubs being alerted anyway, even if our opening offer was accepted, then you're more naive than I thought as well. ** It's just the way you talk financially about players as though you have a handle on what people are worth in today's market. You have a habit in talking as though you're dealing with facts, rather than opinions, which has reduced a great deal, but still prevails on occasion. Case in point: No "probably", no "I think", it's just that, as though you know best. It makes me laugh. I used to do exactly the same with threads like this from what I remember, until I started to realise that it's a complete waste of time me putting values on players that we're after in the real world, because I have fuck all to do with negotiations and I don't know the full story. People will go for what they are worth, nothing more nothing less, the sooner you realise that the less disappointed you'll inevitably be. *** Woodgate went for what was apparently just over £7m, when you were saying he was worth £4m at the most and most definitely not more than what 'Boro paid for him. Tottenham paid more than that. That is exactly what I'm talking about in the previous paragraph. We apparently bid the same sort of amount, or it might have been more because of us being apparent "local rivals" to 'Boro. You can only categorically say that's too much after he's had his time at Spurs, not before, which you did.

If only they could SEE, eh?

Chuffed with a draw? If offered right now, I'd snap someone's arm off for a draw down there!! Won't happen though, I'm predicting more of the same. A goal would be nice, like you say.

Which is why i agree with Toon Taylor tbh. Fannying about now is only going to alert other clubs. £2m plus add-ons is still £2m at the moment. Bit of a waste of time really, and in our situation where we really could do with a player or two, it's annoying to see us messing about. I'd just go out and lump it straight up to £5m now. That is a decent price for him, because he's good and will get better. £2m's a bit insulting when you look at how much other young English players go for. Can you show me where it's been made certain that we offered £2M? I love how you think you have more of a handle on finances than the people who run the club, like So hyopthetically we've bid £2m and you want to offer more... What if they reject £5M because they think we'll instantly go to £8M, etc.? What if they think "oh well, if they've tagged on £3M once they must really want him, so they'll do it again!" Transfers are often cat and mouse and I remember in some instances Allardyce and the Chairman were applauded for not being made to pay "over the odds" for people, which saw us end up with Faye and Beye combined for less than £5M - when people would have probably valued them far higher in their own minds. Weren't you just last week saying we should watch our spending? What you're advocating here is almost the exact opposite of that. I'd like Barnes, but I think a few people are guilty of foaming at the mouth at the thought of ANYONE signing, which is meaning that logic isn't getting much of a look in.

Can also play on the right of midfield as well, though he's not a traditional winger by any sense of the word. Could bring something extra to the squad, no doubts, but he's still not back to his jinking best after that injury he suffered. And if we get a bid accepted, I'm fairly certain other teams might match it and he'd go elsewhere. Particularly to West Ham, who he apparently supports.

For all the good that Sibierski did, and I was as thankful to him as anyone, I still look back on his time here as an embarrassing season for the club. When I start worrying about the current set-up, I only need to hark back to seeing Duff/Rossi up front, Sibierski as our main striker on many an occasion, Lee Clark and Amady Faye as our central midfielders, Huntington/Edgar/Ramage all playing in the same team, Pavel Srnicek on the books as a player at 38 years of age. Things were really very poor when he was here, and he proved to be a bit of a beacon of hope during those months - especially when the floodlight beams reflected of his lovely, shiny bonce. He was the true King of Shite here, which isn't a knock on the man.

If the rumour about us coming in too late for him (after he shook hands on a move to Spurs) is true and he turned us down for that reason, then fair play to the bloke in my book. I'm fairly certain we'd be paying him more than Spurs would and that he'd be the main man in the defence here, which he won't be at Spurs if King is ever fit again.

Sort of agree, he was someone I thought of quite highly even though he turned us down to go to Boro, him turning us down for a second time has really pushed him down in my book. He won't get a round of applause off me if he comes back with Spurs. It's not so much the turning down as I can understand him wanting to go to his hometown club anyway, let alone the fact we had Roeder/Shepherd et. al. running the circus. We weren't exactly going places. And I'm not sure if he's even turned us down this time. It's quite simply the fact that he's a player I admire/like to watch who is playing/has played for two truly nasty teams in a row now (I'm not exactly a Real fan, either), which makes it difficult to appreciate anything good that he does/want him to succeed, much like with Berbatov - another who I think is class.

Agreed. blueyes.gif

He was scoring goals and putting himself about a bit, but "looking good" might be stretching it a bit. He was certainly better than he had been before.

It's good news, aye, but it's bad craic that we're only getting this done in 2008. People expecting it to make any sort of quick difference will be very sorely disappointed. This is the sort of move by the club that shouldn't raise immediate expectations, but invariably will.

I did try to tell you this back in June, Yorkie. http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=42018.msg892802#msg892802 I love it when Baggio boosts his self-esteem.

Best plan of action? Throw a shite bid in 48hours before the window closes. I can see the logic in that. Chill out man, they're not playing Football Manager here. At the end of the day, money or not, they still have to try and get players in for as little outlay as possible. Otherwise things could get very silly very quickly. Why when ever someone has fuk all to say about something they respond with FM comments? Thought better of yourself. Anyone who counters a football comment with that drivel is a lost cause imo. Common sense would suggest Barnes is going to fetch a £5m+ price tag, so lets start there and make it quick with 48 hours to go. Its obvious Derby wont stand in their way, its just about the money, so get in quick before others are alerted and we don't have to pay through the nose when offering him a contract for him to choose us over London, because if others do come in, then you will see silly. I find it laughable you're questioning my posting style after your recent attitude mate. You've lost your head this past week or so because we haven't signed somebody, anybody, big or small, black or white... you just want a player in through the doors for the sake of buying, because it's January and the transfer window is open and Keegan is here. Sort it out. Well done for ignoring the crux of my post as well: The £2M fee may not even be accurate, it's in the fucking media for starters and hasn't been quoted by either club, the last offer Derby rejected was £4M from West Ham some time ago, if I'm remembering right, so it'd be odd if we offered half of that - what would have changed? You're stringing the people involved up without knowing the facts though, simply because you're desperate for a signing here, and that's bad craic - more so than a tongue-in-cheek comment from a known FM player to another.

I used to love Woodgate, me, but now he's played for the two teams I have the least time for in the league in the Beasts/Spurs... wouldn't mind if he never played a game for them.

Best plan of action? Throw a shite bid in 48hours before the window closes. I can see the logic in that. Chill out man, they're not playing Football Manager here. At the end of the day, money or not, they still have to try and get players in for as little outlay as possible. Otherwise things could get very silly very quickly.

Would be good if it happened, quite a coup because there are some decent teams sniffing around him.

I thought Keegan hadnt watched a game from the past 3 years? He hasn't seen one in the flesh, he'll still have been watching on TV.

Ya. He won't last 5 minutes up there. why not? He`ll probably score a hatful of goals in that mickey mouse league Mouse in the body of a bull. Not got the heart to take a kicking. It's strange that mind. When we played Heerenveen in the UEFA a few seasons back, the Radio Newcastle commentators kept going on about how Samaras played as though he was looking for a fight, i.e. more interested in bashing into people and putting himself about than playing football. I thought he'd do far better at Man City than he has.

"In the know" Although most ITK's usually aren't.

Looks good from what we can read there. Nay worries. Parky doing his usual, building it all up before it comes crashing down into doom and gloom in a few months. You are a human big dipper, my son It's difficult, but having no expectations (or trying to have as few as possible) makes for a much easier (albeit less exciting) life supporting this club.

:parky: