HawK

Quite simply he's one of the most talented footballers this club has had in the past 20 years.

Disappointed, expected much better from you.

I think some of these people forget that we were sitting a league below in dire straits only two years ago and were sitting in the bottom half when the man took the helm. They forget that he had to sell his most high profile player two or three weeks into his career here. Anything above seventh for this club, is a great result and it is ridiculous to act like Pardew had no part in this. I am not a supporter of some of the negative football he has employed, but at the same time, he completely changed the formation earlier in the season to give Ben Arfa room to operate. I think he is learning and adjusting and it is good to give him time in which to do so. As this is a thread on Pardew, I won't go into the fact that our progress in no circumstances whatsoever should be measured by how far we've come since we got promoted back. It should be measured from when MA took over, almost 5 years ago in May 2007. Our progress under Pardew is better than Hughton, that I won't argue with, less romantic performances and results but a more pragmatic and effective way to grind out results. But the evidence on the pitch in the previous few months shows a manager who doesn't grasp the fundamentals, today a prime example. At the end of the day, what the hell are you smoking? You are quite daft if you do not think players like Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, Cisse, Ba, Coloccini and Krul wouldn't be pushing for starting births for most of the top 4-5 clubs in the country, bar City. To argue that every player has to be of this class, is pedantic. You could pick apart any of those sides for weaknesses in certain positions. The point I was making, is with players of this ilk, a better manager than Pardew would be achieving more, because it's not for want of a better starting XI. Your general point about you potentially doing better with someone other than Pardew is fair enough and seems to be the main issue on this board at the moment. However, IMO you're overestimating the quality of your squad. Coloccini is a class act and would get into pretty much every starting line up in the league. The rest, to varying degrees, wouldn't. You've every right to say you have some quality players but you're getting ahead of yourself in my view. You're using a very harsh stick to beat Pardew with by stating/implying most of your first team players would be of top 4 quality. Cabaye and Tiote for example, when I see them, I see good players but not to the extent to which I've read them being previously praised on here. That's a fair point, but I do think, given how Cabaye is starting in the middle for France ahead of some absolute quality players should indicate that something isn't right with his club form. The same could be said of Tiote - I think they would both look twice the player they are in a system that keeps the ball on the deck from keeper to midfield. Of course as a supporter my glasses are slightly tinted, I won't argue against that. It's like the Allardyce saga all over again, except this time we actually have a damn good starting XI, the best since Sir Bobby in my opinion, and it's so frustrating. Keegan had a lot less than what Pardew has now, and a few seasons ago against a stronger Man United side at the beginning of the season before he went, we bossed them at Old Trafford. We were playing good football and I'm pretty sure the whole forum was united in the hope that we were going on to better things. Whereas at the moment, I'm scratching my head to think how long it's going to take until we're found out with our constant route 1 football with strikers who can't win a header or hold off a challenge. For his ability to drill the defence and be tight, with the right people, it's frustrating he can't get the basics with the other 6 players on the field. How quickly did it take for Keegan to come in and switch to a 4-3-3 with Owen, Viduka and Martins? We all thought about this on the forum, but to actually have a manager to have the confidence and balls to carry it out came as a shock after the recent procession of managers. I don't think Pardew has the capability of taking the risks and thus earning rewards that come with them. I'm using Keegan as an example as he was able to revitalize a stagnant squad, but the same could have been said of Sir Bobby. For me it all boils down to this; should I be satisfied with where we are, knowing that with a better manager we could be doing better? Or should I be satisfied that we could be in a worse position if our manager wasn't as strong as Pardew. Either way, I am satisfied that we are at least up there challenging around 6th place, but this form has been less about the manager, and more about Demba Ba's incredible form. It reminds me a great deal of Roeder's first half-season in charge where we fluked our way to 7th, and no-one had a clue how we were winning because the football was shocking, and Ameobi was scoring the goals. Lo and behold, over time, this ideology failed because eventually the results caught up with the performances and the strength of the first XI and he had to go. I believe for the same reason, due the lack of progressive and adaptive football, we have already reached our ceiling. A false ceiling with the infrastructure and players that we have. I'd rate Pardew alongside Roeder in quite a few ways, seemingly able when there's limited options and where the team would pick itself, but with the full strength of the squad, unable to make the big decisions that could ultimately take us to the next level by getting the best out of the squad. One of the official reasons cited for his departure from Southampton, was the board's annoyance that they felt Pardew was unable to work with a squad of players outside the first XI. It's easy to get romanticized towards the man, with his great interviews, good newspaper quotes and so forth, probably the best of our managers in many a year in this regard, and our league position. Historically for us, with a good manager in the PL, we've been a top 4 club both times. Perhaps I am less easily pleased than others - not that this is necessarily a good thing, I'd rather be happy than sad! - but since Keegan's original departure, there have been so many false-dawns that it's becoming easier and easier to see the signs of a management style that will either develop and progress our squad and club, and one that doesn't. Only Bobby's shown us what we are capable of, as a club with our fanbase, crowds, history and revenue since Keegan left. Pardew's just not of the quality that this club should be aiming to recruit for his position. We won't ever go beyond this if Mike Ashley continues to run the club how he does, that's why I'm so sad right now, because no manager capable of what the previous 2 legends have done, would work for us under Mike Ashley, for all the good things he's done recently. That said, am I happy now, as a Newcastle United supporter from the age of 6 and now 28 with our direction? Maybe, if I've had my expectations so horribly shattered in the past 5 years that to be aiming just for a top 6 or 7 finish should be seen as a success. But Mike Ashley still hasn't broken me, and now that we've got the players and a system behind the squad geared for success, I won't be happy until he decides to let go and give control to a man that can bring back the good times to SJP. Until then, I'll just be as apathetic as ever.

The squads' age is close to the Milan's oldies of recent, but without the individual technical ability to compensate for the decreasing athleticism.

I think some of these people forget that we were sitting a league below in dire straits only two years ago and were sitting in the bottom half when the man took the helm. They forget that he had to sell his most high profile player two or three weeks into his career here. Anything above seventh for this club, is a great result and it is ridiculous to act like Pardew had no part in this. I am not a supporter of some of the negative football he has employed, but at the same time, he completely changed the formation earlier in the season to give Ben Arfa room to operate. I think he is learning and adjusting and it is good to give him time in which to do so. As this is a thread on Pardew, I won't go into the fact that our progress in no circumstances whatsoever should be measured by how far we've come since we got promoted back. It should be measured from when MA took over, almost 5 years ago in May 2007. Our progress under Pardew is better than Hughton, that I won't argue with, less romantic performances and results but a more pragmatic and effective way to grind out results. But the evidence on the pitch in the previous few months shows a manager who doesn't grasp the fundamentals, today a prime example. At the end of the day, what the hell are you smoking? You are quite daft if you do not think players like Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, Cisse, Ba, Coloccini and Krul wouldn't be pushing for starting births for most of the top 4-5 clubs in the country, bar City. To argue that every player has to be of this class, is pedantic. You could pick apart any of those sides for weaknesses in certain positions. The point I was making, is with players of this ilk, a better manager than Pardew would be achieving more, because it's not for want of a better starting XI.

So to everyone who argued against this, do you believe that Pardew is getting the most out of this squad? With the right players in the right positions, with the right gameplan? If he is, well good on you. If you believe, like me, that he is not, then of course we are underachieving. It's not rocket science. How many second balls did we win today? I couldn't see any. How many headers did Ba or Cisse control as Krul punted the ball upfield did we win then? I couldn't see any. Who agreed with Ba pleading with Krul and Colo to keep it on the deck, but wouldn't as they had to follow the grand plan? Why has he not done the absolutely, blindingly obvious things, such as drop Simpson for being consistently poor, and putting Raylor in his place who can at least do a job in the position? Or not put our best player, by a country mile, in the starting lineup regularly? He's limited, and being carried by the strength of our players. What I wouldn't give to have a manager like Redknapp, who's made players like Dawson and Ekotto with 90 year old Friedel in goal, into a top-3 side. Ashley would never hire the type of manager we need to take the club further, because such a manager couldn't work with Ashley. That said, Ashley, recently, has set up some fantastic infrastructure around the squad and the team, with absolute top quality scouting and recruiting. But a manager like Pardew's only going to take that infrastructure so far, and it isn't top 4. Man-for-man, that's where we should be aiming with these players now. You would have thought, with top half fairly guarenteed, he would have at least tried to figure out how to play his best players in a system to get us ready for next season while the pressure's off - instead we're still playing like we're still chasing a 40 points target come gameweek 35. My frustration is that, I'm pretty much realizing now, is that this is the best this club is ever going to be for the next 5-10 years. I suppose I can settle, but when it's so blindingly obvious what needs to be done, it's a mighty hard pill to swallow.

At the end of the day, if you were to compare our players, man to man, with the best of the PL, we should and would be up there. The only reason we're not is due to the manager. One thing's for sure as far as I'm concerned, if Bobby were here, Hatem would have played the full 90 minutes of every single game he's been fit and available for. He's meeting Ashley's criteria, so he's safe for now. But there's no reason to accept where we are, we should be aiming for better with what we have. Whether there is a manager available to do this right now, is another question entirely. It doesn't mean I don't have the right to pass opinion on the fact that Pardew is clearly out of his depth at this level.

Cisse and Ba will score goals when we get some quality out wide. And yes, Cabaye and Tiote just don't do it. One of them will have to make way in the summer. We can definitely play with 2 holding midfielders, you know that. But Pardew can't, that's the problem.

lol

Mackemslayer to the rescue =D

Still outclassed with 10 men What are you watching? Don't know about you, but I'm watching a group of players that is individually up there as top 5 quality lose to a 10-men mid-table side, at home. We haven't one a single header off Krul's long balls and we haven't won a single second ball either. We are not being outclassed in this half. We have been better but honestly thats only due to the red card. We have been better, due to the red card, but still not as good as Sunderland were when they were 11v11 against us. We've been outclassed today, by poor tactics and poor team selection. Again.

Still outclassed with 10 men What are you watching? Don't know about you, but I'm watching a group of players that is individually up there as top 5 quality lose to a 10-men mid-table side, at home. We haven't won a single header off Krul's long balls and we haven't won a single second ball either.

A lot of people have been saying this for 3 months. Individually our team is top 4 quality with a good manager. We don't have one.

Well tbh he has changed the club he's modelling it on at least twice, i thought the most recent was Aston Villa

lol

':mackems:'

http://i.imgur.com/lgKho.gif I too find that funny lol.

The man deserves nothing but praise. Got more balls than the lot of you combined so you sit behind your keyboards and make fun of him. Is this RTG or newcastle-online? Should be people making him into a hero, not this shite. And they call us the best fans in the land, and we can't even support our own.

It would had been his own fault completely. If you don't do due diligence then you deserve to lose x amount of money. absolutely agree neesy. I was more thinking If he ahdnt bought and we stuck with fat fred, would we have ended up like Rangers? The old cliche, but more like Leeds to be honest. With a swish of Portsmouth thrown in for good measure, and a sprinkling of Plymouth Argyle.

A handsome, self-made billionaire having a great (albeit drunken) time. What's the point? Exactly that, he just doesn't give a f***. Edit: And he knows no-one can be bothered to stop him.

<-------- see avatar

Very good =)

Bellamy/Kluivert

It's a good change to see players decline after they leave, it's still ingrained into me to have seen the likes of Ginola, Ferdinand, Speed (RIP), Bellamy off the top of my head go on to still be successful elsewhere after the board were supposedly 'cashing in'. These kind of transfers have gladly stopped now, for whatever reason, whether it be luck or good common sense. I agree Duff is where he was when he left - a s*** player who has completely lost his game. Milner, none of us can disagree that 10m was a very good price for the lad, and for him to succeed on the back of us making good money on him, I am not bitter. There was no way of us knowing he was going to develop the way he did. Obviously Keegan saw something and tried to stand in the way of it happening but that's another story for another thread. I think the fee we got for N'Zogbia was good under the circumstances, in that because of JFK he was never going to play for us again, and I feel a bit relieved he hasn't gone on to be a world beater, but who's to say he couldn't have gone on to emulate Milner's development to some degree. /Ramble Beye was great for us and the last good RB we've had for a long time.