alpal78

How was his body language? Good one Dave

Agreed! That really reflect the negativity that some is harboring. Instead of focusing on the joy of having extended the contract of what in imo is the buy of the season, they end up talking about him leaving us. What good will that lead to? Stop being so f***ing depressing and enjoy the moment. But but enjoying the moment does not allow us to criticize fat Mike!

can you show me one example of someone being labelled a "Keegan fanboy" after criticizing BOTH Ashley AND Keegan? As usual you just try to reverse things even if they are blatantly not true

Ahh, a true knight of the realm. He's such a graceful gentleman isn't he? Exactly why I keep on making the point that SAF does not deserve the respect of a knight. Sir Bobby was always dignified even in defeat, the difference between them is like day and night.

not based on their second half display. Chelsea dominated the 2nd half more than Man Utd dominated the 1st

Man Utd's title hopefully imploding....I'm loving it!

So what? If you don't love Keegan unconditionally, you can't have an opinion on him? Exactly. and if you dare criticize something he said, you immediately become a "Keegan hater"...pathetic!

No we never believe the club and prefer to criticize the club based on unfounded rumors, that's just the way it is with most people over here

Why does discussion of Keegan always has to be binary, if you think Keegan is wrong, you must therefore be supporting Ashley? There is also no need to drag up issues on why of how he walked away/was constructively dismissed. The issue is his recent comment on Pardew not seeing any of the 35M based purely on how things went during his time. People are entitled to think that he is wrong and that he is over dramatizing the issue when he actually knows nothing about Mike's plan in the summer without being dragged into another Ashley vs Keegan debate. People who think in binaries should grow up, it's not black or white, it's logically consistent to criticize KK for his recent comments without defending Mike on his dealings with KK.

It's also not what he said, but never mind that. I have not listened to the live interview but on soccernet, the quotes are "I saw an interview with Alan Pardew where he said he hoped to get some of the £35 million and I thought 'Alan, you ain't going to get any of that','' he (KK) told Radio Five Live. So I'm not sure why you are saying that he didn't say what is included in the title unless being pedantic is one of your hobbies. My take is that he can say whatever he wants and we can say whatever we want of him. If he acts like a drama queen then he deserves to be called one.

Please, just stop with this. Sorry man I'm just a nervous freak!

As much as I love seeing Liverpool lose, I get nervous whenever a bottom team win. The gap between us and the relegation zone is now just 8 points, don't see how people are convinced that we are safe already. The next 6-8 points can't come soon enough for me, hopefully starting with 3 points against Everton. One point yesterday was good given that we were down to 10 men for more than 30 mins, but in the overall picture, it was a missed opportunity to get 3 points.

Then what about that quote from Pardew that he would be delighted if HBA plays again this season, surely that's not a good sign?

The tackle was stupid but as a replacement for Barton he was quite ok, some of his crosses was not too bad and seemed to combine reasonably well with Perch. Didn't deserve to be applauded off but don't get all these posts castigating him as the incarnation of the devil.

I'm by far a doom monger but I agree that his body language yesterday wasn't very good. He still played 'decenish' well (not up to his usual super high standards though) but you could say that some of the mistakes he made was down to not focusing 100% which is a bit unusual for him. Overall he didn't look happy and almost like he is sulking (for whatever reason)

Ferdinand is way over rated just because unlike most other English CBs he doesn't hoof the ball every time he gets the ball. When he played for England, some of his 'passes out of defense' was just as bad as Terry's which were pretty appalling hoofs and some of the high profile mistakes he's made over the years shows a defender that does not focus 100% all the times (perhaps too cocky for his own good)

This is the thing that pisses me off with Pardew, he gives contradictory messages within a short space of time. Just a what 2 weeks ago,he was saying HBA should be back by Wolves, (Stoke was too soon) and now suddenly he is saying we might not see him again this season. The bigger implication is that I don't know when I can believe him anymore (for the record I don't think he is lying), just maybe that he is trying to achieve everything at the same time i.e. keep our hopes up yet tamper our expectations and reduce the pressure on HBA and in the process comes out with contradictory messages like this.

Of all the players mentioned in this thread, I enjoyed watching Zidane the most. His ball control was on a different level, so good that he could play in slow mo and still get away from 3-4 defenders. He didnt need pace at all. Watching Zidane was like watching an orchestra in slow motion.

Yes but this 'spine' can be anyone regardless of whether the player is local born or came through the local academy or foreign players who had no association with the club before they signed. The key is that these players must be willing to give their all to the club. I would say our spine now are players like Colo, Enrique, Tiote, Barton and perhaps Nolan, all of them bought (some quite expensive) and none of them which would qualify as 'locals' (even using the broad definition) Nobody would argue against having a spine for a club to be successful, that would be silly and was not the original argument. It was whether we need 'local' players (through birth or academy) which has now somewhat morphed into having a 'spine'. That was the origins of the debate and the reason for this new thread/poll How have I misrepresented Wullie or the opposition (whoever that is)? Have you read the Enrique thread where the debate first originated from? It's cool by the way that you are acting like Wullie's defence counsel. Wullie specifically mention "Geordie" in the post I quoted. Granted the part on "comes around once or twice a generation" could be interpreted either way. Like you said because I don't rate Carroll as highly as others (different from not rating at all though as you say), I took it to mean that what made him rare is because on top of his raw potential, he is also a Geordie (which adds another qualifier). I find it difficult to believe that anyone would believe that Carroll is a "comes around once or twice in a generation" type of player on an absolute level. Players like Zidane, Ronaldo, Messi, Xavi can be described as "come around once or twice in a generation". If you take a generation to mean like 20-30 years, then it's crazy (to me at least) that anyone would think that a player like Carroll is so special that in the whole footballing world that stretches from Europe to South America to Africa, there won't be another player like Carroll for the next 20-30 years. If you add the qualifier that a Geordie player like Carroll "comes around once or twice in a generation", then I find that easier to accept. Plus if you look into the Enrique thread, Wullie mentioned examples like Carragher and Gerrard for Liverpool, Terry and Lampard for Chelsea, Scholes, Beckham, Brown etc for Man Utd, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi for Barcelona as his examples. What do they all have in common? Yes they are good players but more importantly they are locals to those teams mentioned (locals here defined as coming from that region or having graduated through the youth academy). So a Solano as in your example would not fit into this category and would be an outlier to Wullie's example because he was neither born in Newcastle nor is he from our academy. Notice also how Inter Milan was used as an example of a team who is now supposedly underpeforming because they lack the x factor. Inter Milan does have a spine, it's just that they don't consist of 'locals'. Wullie's use of Inter Milan as a negative example makes it clear that what was meant is that we need 'local' players to be successful not just a spine which is why I said that the argument has now morphed from 'locals' to teams needing a spine. On the second part of your post, I agree to a large extent, like I said nobody would argue against that every successful team needs a spine. But these players with the attributes you described above does not need to be local (again refer broad definition). Players like Craig Bellamy, Solano, Barton, Nolan are all not "local" but were/are hugely important to our team and in the case of Barton and Nolan has only been with us what for 3-4 years. I'm not quiet sure what you mean by "but they won't win an era and define an institution beyond their physical peak, that's the point". I was arguing on the prerequisites for a successful team and for that you need a team yes with a spine but this spine does not need to be local. If you are referring to leaving a legacy or to define an era after they's stopped playing, then I agree you need the "local" element for this but that was not the original debate. The original debate was a simple question do you need 'local players/heroes' to be successful and my answer was a resounding no as it is still now.

If what is important is for the club to have a spine (which I agree), then I don't think we've lost anything by selling Carroll for 35M. Our spine is pretty much still in tact, Carroll was an important player but no more important than Colo and Enrique and certainly less important than Tiote. Some (Wullie included) were fretting about the sale of Carroll (until now) because he is a local lad. To quote Wullie (so that I am not accused of misrepresenting his views again) That was the origins of the debate and the reason for this new thread/poll

:clap:

How so Jonny Well half the people are talking about local players (those from the area etc.) while others are referring to it in the sense of players that have settled at a club, been there for years (not necessary from the area) Ya I see your point on the confusion, but to me it makes no difference, both are not prerequisites to be successful. I think the latter certainly is. Man City have shown that you can't just throw money at 11 of the best players and expect them to win. There is a 'spine' to every team, like Wullie says. You need money to make a team great and successful, but Chelsea have Lampard and Terry at their centre, Man United had Giggs and Scholes, Arsenal have Fabregas, Liverpool with Gerrard and Carragher (a few years ago). You can't have success without a team. Yes but this 'spine' can be anyone regardless of whether the player is local born or came through the local academy or foreign players who had no association with the club before they signed. The key is that these players must be willing to give their all to the club. I would say our spine now are players like Colo, Enrique, Tiote, Barton and perhaps Nolan, all of them bought (some quite expensive) and none of them which would qualify as 'locals' (even using the broad definition) Nobody would argue against having a spine for a club to be successful, that would be silly and was not the original argument. It was whether we need 'local' players (through birth or academy) which has now somewhat morphed into having a 'spine'.

who said that? s*** strawman argument there. For what it's worth, I think Enrique is a better LB than Carroll is as a striker so it would be more difficult to find a replacement for Enrique. Errrr I said that Have you figured out who all these strikers are yet who are better than Carroll? Of course they'll have to be fairly cheap and on low wages too. Over to you, take your time. 5 or 6 names will do to start off withh I can name more than 5-6 players better than Carroll but I wouldn't know how much they would cost or their wages, that would all be speculation. For starters I think Dzeko, Suarez, Forlan, Milto are all better than Carroll, could come out with more if I really did care to play your petty game.

How so Jonny Well half the people are talking about local players (those from the area etc.) while others are referring to it in the sense of players that have settled at a club, been there for years (not necessary from the area) Ya I see your point on the confusion, but to me it makes no difference, both are not prerequisites to be successful.

C**t Replacing Hughton will never been a good idea. Just becuase things are going in the right direction doesn't justified that stupid decision. Mind you guys we are in that right direction because of what Hughton starts 18 month ego. It's ok to call someone "cunt" now??? I guess so since most of the admins/mods belong to the Hughton fan club