TRon

who has been good at passing this season ?. it's as much down to lack of intelligent movement than any technical problem with the passer. Agreed. I would prefer to see Butt stick to passing it simple though rather than ping it 50 yards. It's a sad indictment that he often seems to be the midfielder furthest forward as well. Says more about the rest of the midfielders and forwards than him I suppose.

If Dyer was limited, then the players that we currently have could only be described using very politically incorrect words. I remember Dyer used to come in for enormous stick on this site before he left and I used to make the same point as you, without him we'd lose any dynamic movement. Well today look where we are and what do we lack? Martins falls into a similar category. Not the cleverest player, but so far ahead of the rest of the dross assembled here as our squad, it seems pointless even having this debate. martins movement is atrocious. players with far less raw speed get themselves into better positions more often. Martins movement isn't the cleverest, I think I acknowledged that, but he does actually move. This is in stark contrast to about 70% of our squad which is widely regarded as lacking "legs". I don't want to use the term legless because I'm sure a few of them are well practiced at that as well.

I tried really hard to find a valid point in that article but couldn't come up with one. It's so bad it should probably be up for some sort of an award.

Wolves would be exactly the sort of team that might be interested in taking Butt. The problem is, if we go down we might be better off keeping him as we won't be able to attract a better version. Anyhow, I think the Championship is his level, he'll probably embarass us a lot less in that division where accurate passing isn't as required.

If Dyer was limited, then the players that we currently have could only be described using very politically incorrect words. I remember Dyer used to come in for enormous stick on this site before he left and I used to make the same point as you, without him we'd lose any dynamic movement. Well today look where we are and what do we lack? Martins falls into a similar category. Not the cleverest player, but so far ahead of the rest of the dross assembled here as our squad, it seems pointless even having this debate.

No you should go. If you even contemplated stepping foot in that flea pit on the account of watching Oasis you might as well see it through.

I would agree if we were at home.

When were the following? The FA Cup game that Barratt got locked up at. The protest by NUSC at the Monument. One was an isolated incident and the other you loved to point out was meaningless. I'm asking when they were in response to you querying the 2-3 months. Are you saying you don't count an organised protest by a supporters group as a protest? Nice legal manouevering there. Pointless in the context of the thread but well done.

I've decided we are going to draw and Man U juniors will keep us up by beating Hull. The most realistic scenario for survival IMO. Not that i think Villa are any great shakes but i just don't think we have the attack, midfield or defence to get us a win away from home against even a half decent team, never mind one which is in Europe at the end of the day.

Ashley's "make do and mend" policy is in danger of backfiring completely and the value of his club is plummeting as a result. It wasn't the fans who stopped him buying decent players in the last few transfer windows. I agree with you regarding the lack of players brought in but why fork out millions in fees and wages if the manager is not going to be there a month down the line. We've fallen in this trap for seasons hence our squad of over rated, over paid and over aged mismatches of previous manager regimes. Despite being a little thin, I would rather have our squad over the likes of Wigan's, West Ham's and Fulham's. Another arguement is what do we offer players? We know that we are cutting back the wage bill and therefore we can't waver the cash about like the big boys. In January for example, we had a temp manager, a owner that was 'leaving', fans on the war path, a long injury list, huge amount of pressure to perform etc etc. Would you have signed up? Who appointed a temp manager and offered him a contract extension despite the fact his dodgy heart wasn't up to it? Who sat back and dithered while Hughton fumbled in a position he should never have been in? Who encouraged Joe Kinnear to talk publicly about signing Veloso and M'bia and ended up signing Kevin Nolan and Ryan Taylor? Is that Keegan's fault?

Essentially it is in our hands though. I can't see both Man U and Chelsea losing on Sunday, regardless of how bothered they may or may not be. A win on Sunday will take us above the Mackems and Hull unless they can match that with a win of their own. I think we're going down though, we'll give a committed performance on Sunday and put Villa under plenty of pressure but get caught on the break. You spoke my mind. I've no doubt we'll huff and puff and throw players forward but will we score goals, and will we have a defence that can cope with them hitting us on the counter? Well we might have done if Beye and Bassong were available. I'm pinning my hopes now on them being even worse in front of goal than us. We might snatch a draw and hopefully Hull will lose to Man U.

Once you leave yourselves at the mercy of others you lose the right to whinge about who they pick and who they don't tbh. If Fergie picks his nose to start on Sunday we can't really have any complaints. It's our own fault we are in this position, not anyone else's.

Ashley's "make do and mend" policy is in danger of backfiring completely and the value of his club is plummeting as a result. It wasn't the fans who stopped him buying decent players in the last few transfer windows.

For the overall mess, that's spot on, but if we end up getting relegated I can't look past the players. Well the players don't end up here by magic. They are usually bought by managers appointed by a board which is directly answerable to the owner. Ashley inherited a mess from Shepherd in this regard and he's gone on to make it worse due to being clueless for the most part. Not to mention a tight bastard.

We're playing against his former team as well just to add a bit more spice. Not that it needed any more. I just hope these useless fuckwit players currently masquerading as pros don't embarass us in front of the whole nation.

He was our best defender last year and those of us who insisted it was a mistake to sell him have been proved utterly right. It's cost us £10m to replace him with a worse player. Everyone suddenly thought he was s*** and should be sold purely on the basis that James McFadden tore him a new one at St Andrews. IMO he was a defensively good player who wasn't a natural centreback. Sort of player who could win a tackle, was big and strong, so on and so forth, but in terms of reading the game as a centreback he was often poor for me. The McFadden goal was a prime example, caught ball watching and unware of where his man was, and allowed McFadden to steal in front of him. Would have been a quality player in the anchor midfield role. The few games that he played there, he looked a right beast in the middle, because on top of being a strong defensive player, he had pretty decent close control and a sound first touch. Unless he spat his dummy unreasonably, I think it's typical of this club that we never gave him a chance in that position despite a few promising games, because after all that was Nicky Butt's position, and as N'Zogbia would testify, we aren't a club who'll use current ability and performance levels, as opposed to character and past reputation, to pick players in the team. He did play very well in centre midfield IIRC against Chelsea of all teams. Tough to say whether he was the long term answer there but he would have provided the athleticism and strength that we have lacked for years now.

Seriously all our players are the exact opposite of Luis Figo. If we went out of our way to find people with less end product we'd be hard pushed to beat what we've got.

With Keegan's history you could make a case for either side although for me there wasn't enough respect shown for someone who knew more about the game than Ashley or his team have been able to grasp. What is undeniable though is that since Keegan left the decision making has been a disgrace from Kinnear's over-staying his welcome to dithering without a manager while he was laid up in hospital. No one else is to blame for that.

Don't think they'll have a choice this time. If the wage bill is 70%+ of turnover now and Ashley is having to put £20/30m in just to keep us in the black, what will it be like down a level!? It's a non-story really as we don't have relegation wage-cut clauses in place (if reports are correct) and so it's natural that most will have to go anyway. You can't have players earning £50k+ in the Championship, it's insanity. Didn't Birmingham fight quite hard to keep their best players? I know they wouldn't sell us Larsson and it's paid off with a swift return to the Premier. Are the players who earn £50k+ for us our "best players"? Bassong, Beye, Taylor, Guthrie and Enrique are the five I'd be most concerned about losing. The rest can take a running jump. Also. I'm fairly certain their wage bill wasn't 70%+ of their turnover prior to relegation... Basically, I don't get the relevance of your post to mine at all. It's not directly relevant to your post, what I am concerned about is whether we will rebuff enquiries for our few decent players like Birmingham did or take the money and run. Like I said Birmingham could easily have sold Larsson at a tidy profit but fought hard to keep him and it paid off. Do you think Ashley and his mates will fight as hard to keep Bassong?

i completely agree with it though, in this instance Tron - think what we get from these overpaid arseholes now in this league, none of them will cut it in the Championship where we're the biggest scalp there is and we're being kicked around every pitch in the league taylor, beye, bassong have the attributes and are potentially realistic options to keep on but i would get rid of every single player with the possible exception of smith & nolan as they'll get tortured down there simply for having neither the physical attributes nor the footballing quality to better what else is down there get rid of 'em all (in the event of the unthinkable) I've a feeling it's the likes of Beye and Bassong that will get sold though. I hope I'm wrong.

Don't think they'll have a choice this time. If the wage bill is 70%+ of turnover now and Ashley is having to put £20/30m in just to keep us in the black, what will it be like down a level!? It's a non-story really as we don't have relegation wage-cut clauses in place (if reports are correct) and so it's natural that most will have to go anyway. You can't have players earning £50k+ in the Championship, it's insanity. Didn't Birmingham fight quite hard to keep their best players? I know they wouldn't sell us Larsson and it's paid off with a swift return to the Premier.

on the head.

Not that I rate too many of our players but it doesn't surprise me that Ashley will look to cut costs rather than invest to try and get back up. You'd think the fat cunt would have learned his lesson by now.

Changed his name to Rich now, but I blame him too. Changing his name to duck the blame eh? It's no use hiding now, the thread has been opened