TRon

and he did this because 2 vital strikers were passed fit to start for him for the first time, meaning we had 3 very good strikers to attack with. his methods didnt just "click" suddenly. did we attack teams in the same manner with smith, ameobi and owen upfront? no, we didnt. dude, you're starting to annoy me with the repetitiveness of this now...i agree with you in the sense that when we had those three things clicked and he changed the system to accommodate, and it worked very well what was the alternative before they came back? what would a better manager have done with the tools at his disposal? only thing i can see is throw in untested bairns in the hope they'd do better than duff/smith etc... what else could have have done with such shite? which, again, is my entire point. the thread (i think) is bashing somebody because the football we're playing isnt great but with all the players missing what are people expecting? we looked shit last year before martins and viduka came back so, like you say, how else can we attack teams with any potency without our best 3 strikers? if we get owen, martins and viduka (and possibly barton) all fit and playing we'll look infinitely better, like we did last year. It's not a bashing thread, more of a questioning one of where are we going? Not now, but come next season. Will we look to bring in a highly rated manager who will build a squad over the next couple of years that will play attractive progressive football? Or will we look to hire a cheap coach who will toe the line and buy hard working players who will graft out a result and try and keep us out of relegation trouble? I'm asking because it's undeniable that Kinnear was offered a two year contract extension. How does that sit with the expectations of last summer when Keegan was downplaying Ashley's aims of a top four place, saying we could aim for top eight maybe? Only the board can answer that in May, the decisions they make will tell us a lot.

The best thing NUSC could do is shut up and fuck off tbh.

It took time to bring the change about FFS. He had to get the players minds switched from nagative football to open football. Birmingham was the turning point, where got a draw but could have won it. Libertine always sniping at KK, any little chance. Its ok tho, you just bend history to suit your argument. it took time to get 3 very good players back (and staying fit) to take the team forward in matches and score goals. the front 3 took the pressure off the s*** midfield the same as a good midfield will take the pressure off a defence. simple as that. Obviously the manager doesn't deserve any credit at all for changing the whole shape of the team though. to some extent. "playing your best players" is what its called at other clubs. dropping smith and ameobi to play martins and viduka isnt rocket science. You're absolutely pathetic. martins or viduka didnt start a game for keegan before the birmingham match and then they come back in and we start doing well. did keegan "change their mentality" or did we just get 2 very decent/vital players back in place of 2 s*** ones? the keegan thing. obviously. The players coming back was obviously instrumental but it was Keegans tactics that got us the results we did. Not many managers would have had the balls to play Owen, Martins & Viduka together. Allardyce certainly didn't. and prior to those players coming back? where were the tactics and the balls? Keegan did his best to inject confidence into the "name" players like Duff and Smith but in the end dropped them and accomodated all three strikers saying that he couldn't see any goals in the team and he didn't want to go into any future matches without goals in the team. By the way not only did it take balls to play 4-3-3, the most important factor was Keegan's refusal to stop playing passing football. That's actually what this thread is about, not about Keegan, he's gone and you can't turn back the clock. It's about the football and Ashley being overjoyed by the way Keegan's team swept the ghost of Allardyce's turgid s**** away with proper football...carpet football as SBR would say. That's what had Mort saying "Kevin's got them playing again". I just wonder what Ashley's vision for the club is now? With Keegan you knew what it was about. Is Ashley happy with muck and nettles football now? For anybody who's failed to notice, this is the central question in this thread, not whether Keegan could have got or should have been expected to get instant results. The owner and chairman have promoted free flowing attacking football publicy, but their actions in the past year, especially their manager appointments (including contract extension offer), have been in sharp contrast with this. What kind of manager do they want for this club. What style of football can we expect from them? Yes that is exactly the point I am making. While it's all very exciting to hear about Veloso's and Mbia's, not to mention Darren Bents, the reality has turned out to be Kevin Nolan alongside Nicky Butt with Ameobi up front. All of thes are on new, improved or extended contracts. All of these are shite and first team regulars. If this is still the case next season then I'd want to know what was the thinking behind it?

Fulham and Reading for 90 minutes, a good first half against Sunderland and quality second half performances against Birmingham and Spurs. It was like watching Brazil for just over 300 minutes. Probably why Ashley did the conga in the boardroom in front of the mackems.

And if not? A question to you and the open forum. And if not? A question to you and the open forum. Everyone has a choice how they want to spend their money. If you don't think you are getting value for it then spend it somewhere else.

It took time to bring the change about FFS. He had to get the players minds switched from nagative football to open football. Birmingham was the turning point, where got a draw but could have won it. Libertine always sniping at KK, any little chance. Its ok tho, you just bend history to suit your argument. it took time to get 3 very good players back (and staying fit) to take the team forward in matches and score goals. the front 3 took the pressure off the s*** midfield the same as a good midfield will take the pressure off a defence. simple as that. Obviously the manager doesn't deserve any credit at all for changing the whole shape of the team though. to some extent. "playing your best players" is what its called at other clubs. dropping smith and ameobi to play martins and viduka isnt rocket science. You're absolutely pathetic. martins or viduka didnt start a game for keegan before the birmingham match and then they come back in and we start doing well. did keegan "change their mentality" or did we just get 2 very decent/vital players back in place of 2 s*** ones? the keegan thing. obviously. The players coming back was obviously instrumental but it was Keegans tactics that got us the results we did. Not many managers would have had the balls to play Owen, Martins & Viduka together. Allardyce certainly didn't. keegans tactics did nothing for the few months before 2 vital players were fit again. worth noting in the context of the thread. He was trying to turn the mentality of the team around. Did you expect instant results? glenn roeder could but keegan couldnt? shock horror. this is hardly something to cling to when plenty of new managers taking over during the season have "honeymoon periods" when results improve fairly instantly for a while. sunderland or blackburn for a recent example. even tottenham had one. Honeymoon period? I seem to remember it took a while to turn things round. which is my point. fucks sake. Fact is keegan , got the tean Attacking, this is what he does, he gives his teams freedom to attack, and its far better to watch. when we got 2 very good strikers back, yes. before that, no. its no coincidence that the first game where martins and viduka were fit to start was the game we started attacking teams. That wasn't a coincidence mate, not many managers would have convinced Owen he should play in midfield with two other strikers ahead of him and make it work.

I thought Harper was a big improvement over Shay in his distribution first game back in the side, but he seems to be reverting to the big hoof gradually. Maybe Kinnear doesn't like to see his keepers fannying around throwing the ball and Hughton is following like a sheep. Kinnear done away with the 5-a-side games and admitted he focuses more on defensive work with the team before handing them to the fitness staff. I guarantee they will rarely if at all practice pass and move or touch and control. They will play games but they will be 8-a-side games or 11-a-side games at 10, 15, 20 minutes at most. Stop-gap tactic s from a stop-gap manager which is fair enough I suppose.

At the end of the day these agitation groups don't mean that much in themselves, but falling revenues whether from season ticket sales or lack of sponsors will. Ashley needs to give the fans something to hang their hats on next season,whether it's a quality manager or a a few decent players. Really it should be both and I'm hopeful it will be.

I never thought Spurs would go down so if anyone was going to lose this game I'd rather it was Hull.

I thought Harper was a big improvement over Shay in his distribution first game back in the side, but he seems to be reverting to the big hoof gradually. Maybe Kinnear doesn't like to see his keepers fannying around throwing the ball and Hughton is following like a sheep.

Woodgate is the best defender I've seen play for Newcastle, although he doesn't look as good now for Spurs. Bit daft to start comparing Bassong with him already, he needs that like a hole in the head. It just goes to show what a difference a class player at the back makes though.

Everton were decimated by injuries in midfield that's why they couldn't win yesterday. Saying that so were we, so fair's fair. Started with a 3 and it still seems a good judgement. We won't go down.

Why, because he's said so? One of the worst tackles I've ever seen to be quite honest, Anichebe could easily have gotten an Eduardo-esque injury from it and considering he got him with both feet I'm surprised he didn't. Rotten, cowardly challenge. He's left the ground with both feet and drove them together in a stomping motion, it just doesn't get more dangerous than that. I'm sure he was trying to get the ball and all that but that doesn't excuse it, it was a horrific lunge and he should really get a lot more than the 3 game ban for it. Obviously it benefits us if he doesn't get a longer ban, he's a decent player who gives us a goal threat from midfield afterall. But if he does I'll have no complaints, because he'll deserve it and more tbh. Just out of interest, what makes it a cowardly challenge? FWIW I don't think it was cowardly, just slow and clumsy, the sort of tackle players like Nolan are likely to make once in a while.

Get him signed.

It took time to bring the change about FFS. He had to get the players minds switched from nagative football to open football. Birmingham was the turning point, where got a draw but could have won it. Libertine always sniping at KK, any little chance. Its ok tho, you just bend history to suit your argument. it took time to get 3 very good players back (and staying fit) to take the team forward in matches and score goals. the front 3 took the pressure off the s*** midfield the same as a good midfield will take the pressure off a defence. simple as that. Obviously the manager doesn't deserve any credit at all for changing the whole shape of the team though. to some extent. "playing your best players" is what its called at other clubs. dropping smith and ameobi to play martins and viduka isnt rocket science. You're absolutely pathetic. martins or viduka didnt start a game for keegan before the birmingham match and then they come back in and we start doing well. did keegan "change their mentality" or did we just get 2 very decent/vital players back in place of 2 s*** ones? the keegan thing. obviously. The players coming back was obviously instrumental but it was Keegans tactics that got us the results we did. Not many managers would have had the balls to play Owen, Martins & Viduka together. Allardyce certainly didn't. and prior to those players coming back? where were the tactics and the balls? Keegan did his best to inject confidence into the "name" players like Duff and Smith but in the end dropped them and accomodated all three strikers saying that he couldn't see any goals in the team and he didn't want to go into any future matches without goals in the team. By the way not only did it take balls to play 4-3-3, the most important factor was Keegan's refusal to stop playing passing football. That's actually what this thread is about, not about Keegan, he's gone and you can't turn back the clock. It's about the football and Ashley being overjoyed by the way Keegan's team swept the ghost of Allardyce's turgid shite away with proper football...carpet football as SBR would say. That's what had Mort saying "Kevin's got them playing again". I just wonder what Ashley's vision for the club is now? With Keegan you knew what it was about. Is Ashley happy with muck and nettles football now?

Absolutely. Or maybe he's just slow and shit? You're only proving what James said tbh. Or I'm just giving my honest opinion which has been the same throughout this thread from day one.

Absolutely. Or maybe he's just slow and shit?

Pointless even giving an opinion when you've already got your feelings about Nolan vocalised and cemented tbh. I gave my opinion on Nolan a long time back on toontastic when he scored that wonder volley. The thread's not about any one player though. It's about creating a collective team and which players are part of that and which players aren't.

Nolan was an after thought kind of signing, a decision made based on short-term needs rather than long-term given Barton and Guthrie's injuries and the impending closure of the transfer window. We chanced our luck so late on by asking Bolton if they would sell and they said yeah, so we bought him. I doubt any planning at all went into buying Nolan, Taylor or the Danish lad. Bodies basically. That is what worries me considering we knew months beforehand that the squad needed strengthening.

Really? We usually have at least five or six when Shola plays. The wingers were Duff and Ryan Taylor. Ryan's a full back and Duff develops legs of jelly every time he gets past the halfway line. Are you really surprised we didn't force any corners?

I think Kevin Nolan was a shit signing, the worst of the lot. No decent football team would have had any interest in him whatsoever.

At the end of March last year, we'd just beaten Spurs 4-1, Allardyce's dismal brand of Fear Football had been kicked into touch and we were passing all but the best teams off the park. Now the players I am seeing coming into the club are being brought in to do a different job. Are Nolan, Ryan Taylor and Butt really a midfield capable of producing that free-flowing football? If Ashley sacked Allardyce last season because the football was so dismal, what is the reasoning behind backing Joe Kinnear's signings?

He did ok by his standards, but MOTM? You must be joking. If he sticks to tackling and simple passes he can do a job, unfortunately he loses posession regularly when he tries to be too clever.

Similar to NJS's criticism of Jonas in the match thread...with so many bad players in our squad, I find it weird how people are concerned about two of our better players in their respective positions. Left back and left wing are the least of our problems IMO, although it would be nice to have some back up for Enrique. I think we can get away with cover from Raylor if we strengthen other positions. I'd rather we signed a decent midfield than spunk good money on a full back. Definitely.

it would be nice if the midfield was capable of doing much else.