TRon

There's a case he could have made a decent holding midfielder in the Carrick role as well. But like you said, it was probably a case of being a jack of all trades and becoming a master of none.

Watson was an unfulfilled talent. He did have a bit of everything, but what he lacked is what IMO Milner lacks. The burning desire and ambition of a Gerrard to be the best. I don't think he lacked the tools, he was reasonably quick, a good athlete and pretty good on the ball. But what Gerrard does is exactly what Milner doesn't and Watson should have done more. Make or score crucial goals.

That doesn't explain why he played half the season in midfield. Allardyce..... that explains everything. Both things that Teasy wrote in the above quotes are bang on. Even Newcastle United wouldn't put such a clause in a player's contract. Not one as ordinairy as Smith in any case.

I daresay that KK will give it a go. Neither of them are much good at holding the ball up though, and I can't see it working. I don't think it would work like that, but maybe if the ball is played to feet they could fashion a Beardsley/Cole type of partnership. I don't think Smith's great at holding the ball up either. Viduka is much better if you are looking for that role.

If Martins is fit, surely he has to start with Owen?

Hopefully he'll be getting dropped this week. Let's see if KK's still got it.

Taylor doesn't know how to man mark, but do any of our defenders? It seems like there's never really much thought when it comes to that at all. Wheater gets far too much credit as he scores goals at the other end. IF he didn't do that no one but Boro fans would of noticed him. He's also dirtier than Huth, mistimed tackles, stray elbows, he'd be picking up yellows at a higher rate than Smith if he played for us, but somehow for some reason Ref's go easy on him. Pointing at other defenders isn't going to make Taylor any better btw. All our defenders are much better at marking. Faye is. Cacapa and Rozenhal both are/were, their problem is not being strong enough to handle physical sides. There's no harm in pointing out strengths and weaknesses it's not personal. I'd start Cacapa ahead of Taylor most days of the week no problem. I'd like to see Edgar as well, maybe if we get to safety he'll be given a go.

I don't want to go on about this, but Taylor for me lacks one of the basics. He doesn't know how to man-mark, he just defends a general area in front off goal. Kaka was spot on when he compared him to Wheater who has come on in leaps and bounds while Taylor still defends like a kid in a local park

What was he doing for Ronaldo's goal for two nil? Ronaldo was running at him, while Taylor was running backwards as usual. You know why he did the full circle turn? he was looking behind him to see where the posts was so he could make a fantastic goal line clearance - or failing that a flying save followed by the 'shot in the gut act' on conceding a pen. Priceless.

Come to think of it, he's more local than Cacapa as well. Way ahead of the Brazilian in that regard too..

All this crap about putting him alongside a better defender...if I just saw him doing the basics right I could go along with it. Defenders who don't mark won't look good next to anyone. Taylor's forte is waving his arms around and then standing in front of the goal trying to block incoming shots with his body or hands whichever it takes. He's bigger than Cacapa so at least that's something he does better.

I'd agree. He looked as though he could intimidate the defenders purely through his physical attributes, he just wasn't quite sure how best to use them yet. That's what I saw as well. At least he'd be a threat in the box, but I'd need to see him get a few headers at goal first. Shola is probably as much threat at the moment.

We could always pay £20m for a £15m rated player, that way we'd have more chance.

If you think Spurs or the like are going to headhunt Taylor you must be off your rocker. Ramos bought Woodgate to mark players not run to the goal line to make last-ditch clearances, or clutch his gut to to try and con the ref he didn't handle on the line. Yeah, no other club has ever shown an interest in buying Steven Taylor. Of course. Only Liverpool on several occasions, of course he's not good enough for this magnificent club. If Liverpool or Spurs buy him you can bump this post and tell us we were all wrong.

Edgar might be worth a look.

If you think Spurs or the like are going to headhunt Taylor you must be off your rocker. Ramos bought Woodgate to mark players not run to the goal line to make last-ditch clearances, or clutch his gut to to try and con the ref he didn't handle on the line.

Most people will probably just say "He's Martins - not Ronaldo or Anelka. But better than Smith so get him in.

I didn't see enough from Carroll on Saturday to convince me he should be starting. Good option from the bench though.

Why do we keep showing one way loyalty to players who have never given a monkey's chuff about us in the past? Fat Fred kept trying to sign Carrick and Matt Jansen based on their north east heritage. Carrick preferred West Ham and Jansen chose Blackburn. So of course, now he's playing for Man U's first team, Carrick is suddenly going to give it all up to come 'home'. The only time I know that we've looked at Carrick was when we needed a replacement for Butt, Robson wanted Carrick but Shepherd told him he'd have to wait until January to get him as his contract was up that Summer, we signed Butt for around the same money West Ham wanted for Carrick and he went to Spurs later that Summer. can you back that up ? Yes. There's an insight. I've always rated Carrick personally but hated the fact he 'rejected' us for West Ham and then Spurs. Fat Fred strikes again.

To be fair, the only time I was really worried about him being fit was while Oba was away at the ANC and to his credit he's stayed fit. It hasn't done us much good points-wise but that's another story.

Why do we keep showing one way loyalty to players who have never given a monkey's chuff about us in the past? Fat Fred kept trying to sign Carrick and Matt Jansen based on their north east heritage. Carrick preferred West Ham and Jansen chose Blackburn. So of course, now he's playing for Man U's first team, Carrick is suddenly going to give it all up to come 'home'.

That's what I was saying earlier. Any quality signing is dragged into the torpor rather than pulling the squad out of it. Instill a bit of belief, then make expensive additions to a club on the up. It's like they say about getting your hair cut, you should always go when it looks it's best. Is it just about instilling belief? I can't imagine Keegan has been doing anything other than trying frantically to instil belief. What you have to ask yourself is why he's making absolutely no difference to the standard of play now. "There's something rotten in the state of Denmark..." In football results are all that matter. KK can say whatever he likes to whoever he likes but it won't do much good until results start coming in to restore concious belief, i.e. in reality. I also reckon a great deal of players at our club have zero faith in one another and when there is no trust or no confidence in those around you, well, you're f***** and that's exactly what has happened to us. It runs deeper of course and other factors have played their part but those are the crux of the problems in my opinion, that and the genuine lack of ability in the ranks. Get rid of some of the "stars" and get back to basics. To sort the morale issue out, we may very well need to do the unthinkable and get rid of certain players who are seen as the mark of an "ambitious" club. We may need to say goodbye to Given, Owen and others before we can have a hope in hell of righting this ship. I agree. I love Given but the club's mediocrity has finally sunk it's teeth into him and he's now performing to that level instead of above it like he always used to. A great shame because he's been a great player for us and a great pro. Owen is finished as a top-class player and impairs us a great deal in an attacking sense, he's just not good enough simply and I'd get rid tomorrow. Thankfully I think KK will do what is necessary and won't be afraid to get rid of anyone. I think in the summer there will be a lot of coming and going and some big shocks in store for people. Fans and players alike. Do you believe its right to get rid of Owen and Given in the summer? or should we be building a team around these guys and writing off how s**** everyone has been this season? Get rid would be my vote. Shay's best days for us are behind him, he has far too many bad habits and we need a hungry fresh 'keeper with a whole career ahead of him to cultivate a persona between the sticks for himself. Shay is too died in the wool and too battle weary to become that much needed presence behind the back-four. As for Owen, his only real outstanding quality is his positional instinct which will always enable him to score goals but it will come at a huge expense to the rest of the team, most notably those behind him in midfield who will have to play a very one dimensional game to provide the kind of service that will get goals out of Owen. We need much more, we need mobility, physical presence, pace and stamina. You can't build a team around such players, you can try and accomdate them or include them from time to time but the way I look at is I'd rather see their places taken up by hungry, fresh players with something to prove and gain, players with their whole careers ahead of them. Players who can decide what kind of players they become or the success they can achieve by what they have to do rather than what they've done previously. Shay has had his time where as Owen has wasted his. Time to move on, for club and player. So let's say Given and Owen go. Who would you bring in to replace them with? what two players would you want here that we could get, that would fit in and play the style of football you would like us to play? It's too early for Krul, so I'm assuming were looking to spend big on a keeper too. Regarding a replacement for Given, not necessarily no. Someone with different qualities and a different presence between the sticks could make all the difference. Who and how much I don't know. Maybe Harper can step up and make the position his own. The same applies to Owen too. We don't have to go out and spend £16m to replace him. Again someone with different qualities and a different presence could make a huge difference. Who and how much, again I don't know. I haven't really thought that much about it. I think Harper and Given are marking time tbh. Not that either have anything to be ashamed of by the standards of some current Prem GK's but Fraser Forster and Krul look outstanding prospects to me.

The fact that he didn't mean to break his leg hardly matters. I just find it depressing when a talented player gets his leg snapped in half because a clumsy defender has his studs in the air with a player flying at him.

I was pessimistic about Saturday's match with Blackburn, but if we can get Martins alongside Owen I see a glimmer of light. Put Zog into centre midfield as well and Blackurn might be worrying about us rather than the other way round.

If someone else wants to pay him £100k a week good luck to them.