TRon

Exactly. I'm just glad Ashley timed the sacking of Big Sam so perfectly. Now Keegan will know exactly which players need replacing by the summer instead of finding out next season. Great work by our board. That's got to be the dumbest statement in this thread. No I think he got it just right for the reasons mentioned. You could always put an alternative view to enlighten me though. Try reading the thread. It was in light of the thread I put the view it was perfect timing.

Can de Oirish?

Exactly. I'm just glad Ashley timed the sacking of Big Sam so perfectly. Now Keegan will know exactly which players need replacing by the summer instead of finding out next season. Great work by our board. That's got to be the dumbest statement in this thread. No I think he got it just right for the reasons mentioned. You could always put an alternative view to enlighten me though.

Strange one, but a good catch for Ireland. Not sure what he'll do with such limited resources though.

Exactly. I'm just glad Ashley timed the sacking of Big Sam so perfectly. Now Keegan will know exactly which players need replacing by the summer instead of finding out next season. Great work by our board.

:clap: I fear that your voice of reason will be drowned out by the clamour for kneejerk reaction, but it doesn't stop your contribution being one of the most sensible I've seen here for quite a while. :clap: agreed.

Putting aside all his off-field problems, I was never really convinced he was that good when he came here but I was hoping other people knew better than me as I hadn't really seen much of him. To say he's been a disappointment is putting it mildly. His passing is wayward, his shooting has been poor but I've been shocked how slow he is. There is no way a top side would buy him on playing ability alone. The only reason this prick has got noticed is his mouth and his fists not his feet. A waste of time.

Jenas still has weaknesses to his game, just like he did when he was with us BUT what he brings to a team is exactly what we are now missing. Pace, good close control, great running and movement with and without the ball and a superb engine, not a clapped out motor which starts rattling and creaking when forced above it's limited capacity. Anyway, some good posts here although it's telling that everyone is struggling to come up with a convincing short term solution - a good indicator of how little quality we've got in midfield. We just need to get to the summer intact and hopefully KK will show his mettle in the transfer market to put it right.

I was watching yesterday's matches closely for precisely this reason. I wanted to see if other teams gave up the ball when being pressed and the answer is they don't. Chelsea and Man U in particular either passed the ball before anyone got near them (often one touch) or they shielded the ball until an option became available, which they quckly did as there was so much movement off the ball. Our players, in contrast, pass it then stand still, only too relieved to have got rid of the ball. A more sorry bunch of losers it would be hard to assemble.

and I'd just like to add: fuck Fat Fred and all his minions.

The timelines are crossed. The past and the future make the present. There is a song in the forest the same you remember as a child.....Dreams within dreams... ..there is another between consciousness and illusion...Darkness lies ahead. At the moment I'm still pleased they are on board. Stay clear of relegation and I'm certain there will be big investment in the summer. If that doesn't happen I'll hold my hands up but until then no knee-jerking from me. Behind Ashley 100%

Would agree with that, but he needs to make some hard choices pretty quickly regarding some of the players he's picking currently. Next season is fine but we need to pick a side which will keep us up in the short term.

He won't have any choice but to drop them if they keep waving the white flag.

A couple of interesting things from that game: firstly injuries meant that experienced pros who had been performing like leadweights (does this strike a chord?) were replaced by youthful, energetic midielders who were prepared to have a go. secondly, we went with a 5 man midfield according to that report, which is something suggested earlier. Might be worth considering. although Ameobi was one of the 'midfielders'.

Found it. It was Ambrose who scored.

Portsmouth have still made some canny signings so it's not like the top 4 can buy everyone

I can remember one match against Man U in recent seasons where due to injuries Darren Ambrose and Zog played as central midfielders and they more that held their own against the Mancs. It's not like any of the alternatives are exactly picking themselves. The best one would probably be Emre, but I don't think he has the mobility to get up and down the pitch, and in matches I've watched, he doesn't get into the final third enough.

Twice the player, 5 times the potential, even at £15m its low when you think about Downing for £10m. Downing is worth no more than £5m, even with him being English and at a rival club, true worth is more like £3m. £15m for the Zog then starts to make sense if we could get Downing for £3m. Under current market price Downing is worth about 5. Apply the "Young, English" multiplier, and he's a fair deal for 10. Would be stunned if Southgate let him go for anything less. Here's a simple rule of thumb. If ANYONE is under 24 and has five or more England caps, he'll not go for anything under 10 mil. That's the world we live in. Zog is worth about 7~8, but he's not English so that's about what we'll get Not saying that I agree with the inflation on English players, that's just the reality. So we'd be getting a worse player and effectively losing about £5m. I think I'll pass on that one.

Lazaru on TT suggested starting Zog and Faye in midfield and I would like to have a look at that. Both players are athletes so at least we wouldn't get over-run, and they couldn't possibly fail to improve the passing. You know for a fact that Zog would support the forwards which should in theory make life much easier for Duff and Milner as well.

I might have missed this, do you think we should sell? If we sold Zog for £7m, then bought Downing for £10m (figures which are being bandied about) would that be good business?

Just seen this post now, and I agree 100% (started a new topic because this one seemed to be about captaincy). Watch the better Premier sides and their movement and passing through the middle is in a different league.

Most of that was true before Keegan took over, otherwise Allardyce wouldn't have been sacked. Liverpool, Portsmouth and so on...remember? Only a clueless, media-led twat would judge Keegan on a team he has inherited. If anybody needs reminding, it started going downhill AFTER Keegan left 11 years ago. It's hardly fair he gets the blame for the shambles left behind by his predecessors, the honorable SBR excluded.

When Faye played centre mid. in a couple of matches what stood out wasn't his passing although it was Beckham-esque compared to most others who have played this season, it was his ability to actually move without blowing a gasket. Butt and Barton were out-muscled, and rendered bystanders by the end yesterday. The same happened against Middlesborough, and I'm starting to feel sorry for the wide players as they get the ball and are expected to beat two players then cross well, while the central midfielders stand like statues, all responsibility relinquished once they've got rid of the ball. Butt is a clapped out shadow of a player, and Barton needs to see a shrink, not play football. He doesn't look like he's enjoying it, looks slow and has more chance of hitting a right hook than a decent pass. Both players are ordinairy at best in any case, when they're confidence is shot there isn't a chance in hell we can string passes together. If they start against Man U we will be destroyed.

£10m for Downing? Yet people were laughing at the ludicrously high price tag some were putting on N'Zogbia. If Downing's worth £10m then we should add another £5m to that to let the Zog go.

What makes a side tick in the successful teams - or cough and splutter in clapped out vehicles like ours at present? Watching us fail to move the ball beyond the halfway line all season without resorting to the long ball, the problems aren't the defenders as all the pundits seem to think, but the central midfielders in my view. Barton and Butt were given the honours yesterday, and between them they took it in turns to pass to the opposition, lose the ball under the slightest pressure and fail to move off the ball to create some space for others. Watching their counterparts in proper football teams like Man U, Liverpool or Chelsea it's like watching a different game. This is the area that has to be addressed if we are going to start looking like a football team again. In the short term the answer might be to lose a forward like Smith who has little impact anyway, and play an extra midfielder like Emre. In the long term none of the current central midfielders are good enough and we need heavy investment next season.