Colos Short and Curlies

but the fmv and linked club rules came in mid season

Yes but it has a value that could easily be defined if you wanted to and then transfer fees become more rigid. You could even go registration value plus the remaining value of a contract etc. It would never happen anyway

Player values are interesting if you break it down. what you are paying for is a registration and not actually buying the player (that would be slavery!) A registration for a league should be valued the same regardless of the player - you could maybe argue different tiers for positions so should the additional value of the player based on ability etc be paid to the selling club or just factored into what you would pay them in wages / signing on fee?

isn’t the £3m on top of the £250m income? It’s a separate P&L line. so you also take out the £28m from player sales this year to get you £306m. if we get past city in the cup then there’s another £2m from the cup run against virtually nothing from the carabao run last year. so I get us £310m minimum before any player trading but I think that will be a little pessimistic

Yeah I know that, but it does mean that there is a chance (yes very remote today) that SA clubs could play in uefa competitions

that has teams from Israel competing in it

Not sure if ticket sales will impact our income. If PIF/Saudi FA were smart (on our behalf) they would have hired the stadium on the basis of a full house and then took the actual ticket money themselves. US tour would have been worth a little bit. Its that type of activity that creeps the income up

The £250m income in 2022/2023 does not include any player trading (we made a £3m profit on sales in the year). We are 100% looking to the commercial team squeezing every orange and lemon, but that's what they are there for and what they are good at doing

Little bit of TV, smaller sponsorships, corporate work, overseas tours etc. Basically lots of little increments in every area Putting my accountant hat on rather than my fan hat, an FA cup run to the final is worth £3m, we had nothing last year. Winning the League cup is worth less than £500k - just as an example

No you 're right on that, so the 2023/2024 income is more likely to be something like £250m plus lets add 20% general increases (£50m) plus Champions League (£37m) plus Sela (£25m) = £362m Adidas plus (assume) Conference league - Fun 88 should be more or less the same as the champions league money so 2024/2025 income should be more like £370-£380m

I agree 100%, and that's from an accountant! I hate the focus on FFP, amortisation and even all the detailed stats that get discussed around things. Its 90 mins of entertainment where I will enjoy a game or not, nothing more and nothing less. If we won the Conference League I couldn't give a toss on the money, as you say its a trophy and the cumulation of a season of hard work, ups and downs. I was just responding to the point on value made above my post

And that's why I stuck to using the current rules as a model. I don't think the first year or 2 will be that different, there will need to be a phased approach considering when in the season they have said things will change. I agree on sales, minimum of £50m but we will have a bit of muscle to flex in the summer, certainly enough to bring in a striker, right winger, centre back and keeper. The calibre in each position will depend on the Hall situation Minteh I think will be in the squad and of course Tonali comes in like a new signing.

Hence the need of a good team, you are 100% right we cannot afford too many missteps on the way. That's the real difference between the top 4/6 and the rest, they can swallow mistakes easily. I still maintain that you can get as good a team for £200m as you can for £400m with the right structures around the club. It's harder to do, but possible

I know the Adidas money kicks in next season, I've skipped the current season as the ask was what can we do in the summer. This starts at what we did in 2022/2023 (£60m loss for FFP) and then adjusted for what we know will change for 2024/2025 such as sponsorships and Europe. Basically I'm working on the assumption that we go pretty far in EL or CL next season and this plus the Adidas money equals our CL and Fun88 money from the current season so I can add it to the £60m loss

I'd say you can if you have the financial backing, enough scope to invest in the team and a strong recruitment model coupled with a good coach. You don't need to be breaking or even getting close to world record fees to have a team competing, you need a structure that identifies those not quite at that level but who will become 'world' class in a year or 2. You need to investment room to allow the players to grow into the team over a few years and not feel that you need to sell them. If the allowable losses were £180m rather than £105m I'd say we could both get a team that is right in the mix with the Sky 6 and can outpace at least 2 of them with the teams we have in place

I'll stick to the current rules here, not the UEFA ones. And even then its hard to say. What we know is that a loss of £60m falls off the calcs and we will make a small profit this year so in simple terms you have what we did this year plus £60m in additional amortisation and wages (working on the basis that Adidas and EL/EC offsets Champions League). So you could spunk £200m in the summer if you wanted to. However, there is a longer term view that we have £60m drop off next year and the year after, but then a profit of £15m will drop off the year after and if you keep a £60m loss in 2024/2025 and 2025/2026 you are back to where we are this season, but with bigger revenues and wages no doubt. So they may go down the route of replacing a £60m loss with a £30m loss for the next 2 years to balance this out. Really depends on how aggressive they see revenue growth. Gun to the head we will spend £250m which will would add £50m of amortisation and £30m-£50m of wages. Taking last year as a starting point £60m FFP loss in 2022/2023 + £50m increased revenue (Sela, Adidas, Europe) - £50m amortisation on new purchases (I'm going to assume that the increase from last summer is evened out with previous windows signings dropping off) - £50m new wages (this is high but not totally unrealistic over a 2 year period) = £110m FFP loss So we would need to sell £50m profit worth of players. Likely to be Miggy, Wilson, Targett (or we keep Targett and don't follow up on Hall) and another. I don't think it would need to be a Bruno, Joe(s) or Isak That would be pushing the boundaries I think but would be an ambitious summer whilst staying in the rules

There's a whiff of a journalist being briefed in that story

I think we've danced around the drain this year. If we take the Swiss Ramble figures as a reference point then we can deduct around £10m of costs from the published accounts to get to the FFP profit/loss, it seems like we need to make a FFP profit of £15m this season (again using the SR figures as the actual values aren't published) so that's a break even / £5m profit position needed in the accounts. Starting at a loss of £70m (ish) we're increasing our amortisation by £20m (5 years of Tonali, Barnes and Livramento) but have roughly the same profit from selling Maxi and will have some of the amortisation value from last year fall off. We're then left with needing an increase in TV money, prize money and sponsorship to total around £65m more than 2022/2023. Champions league is worth around £20m and Sela £25m. So I think we'll be OK this year, but getting 5th or 6th and a cup final would help to reduce the loss from finishing 4th and the Carabao final. This is also the worst season for us if we bat smartly as we should be increasing our income and the pool of players who have a sales value to move forward. It is a bit of guess work though as we don't have the full breakdowns on what goes into the FFP calcs

To be honest I doubt they were that involved in the battle to get the club. Amanda will have been doing the hard running, it will have been a bit of background noise to PIF until the point it got close

Its £10m-£12m if you win it and we'd expect to be one of the favourites for that. It may not be much, but it is one years amortised value of a £40m-£50m player.

If I get the time I'd like ot have a good read through the accounts, they of course don't tell the whole story but unless there are any real exceptional costs I don't see how you bring the £119m down to the £37m that falls off in a single year so the 3 year loss will increase and it could be a white knuckle ride for FFP fans for this season. We do come back to the same point of this being nuts.

they wouldn’t be in the loss if they are capital costs though. any money spent on putting a building up, laying new pitches, gym equipment etc etc would sit on the balance sheet and be depreciated in the same way player registrations are. it would only be staff costs, running costs and then the cost of any youth player purchases that would sit in the loss

i haven’t gone through your accounts to see, but wouldn’t most of the costs in setting up an academy by capital costs and therefore not included in the losses? yes you’d have the payroll costs for the academy staff but nothing for the buildings and facilities. Fees for buying young players would also be written off for FFP, can’t think of much else

More or less, The only difference is that our losses were fairly consistent and we are building additional revenue streams bit by bit whereas Villa's has come out of nowhere really. Would need to see if there are any exceptional costs in there because the fundamentals in player wages and amortisation are going to increase by as much, if not more than their European revenue. As Midds says, its ridiculous for both of us

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/05891280/filing-history This year's aren't up, but they will be here in the next couple of days