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Credit to Fabregas as well for backing up all the stuff he's been talking about. He's got cojones, that boy does. If Arsenal win this thing, it might even be a 'statement' game from him. I read an article in the Independent today about how Fab and Ronaldo still don't have that game under their belt, the game that truly elevates them into superstars in the way that Kaka's performance at Old Trafford last season did for him. Maybe today was it? I thought Walcott looked really good (again). Great pass for the second goal. It might have looked easy but it was perfectly weighted and he didn't hesitate in playing that ball as well.

Fantastic performance from Arsenal. God I wish Man Utd got kicked out today. They were nervous and looked shaky all game whenever Ben Arfa or Benzema ran at them, but Lyon never really got in their stride.

5 in midfield would be good. Zoggy Duff Butt Geremi Milner And then I'd say Martins up front but with Owen being captain, having him up front ain't too bad either. The only chance we have of getting a point is somehow sneaking a goal and not letting them dominate the midfield. If they do, we'll get played off the park so 5 in midfield should be a big consideration. I thought we did well with this formation against Man Utd away as well (until you know..). At least the first half of that game was very encouraging and Liverpool aren't exactly filled with players like Ronaldo and Tevez who can tear us apart.

Jenas played the holding/defensive MF role under SBR. Who plays that role now? Nicky Butt. We sold Jenas for £7m, since then we have bought Alan Smith for £6m. Where were we then? Where are we now? No. Jenas was carried by Speed. Whenever Speed was out (as rare as it was), Jenas wasn't himself. When Speed left, Jenas became even shittier than he was. Obviously this is relative i.e. his shit is not equal to Alan Smith shit, but the point stands, his form deteriorated over the last couple of seasons of his stay and we got good money for him. That, to me, is good business. What we did with the money we got for him is another business altogether which is why I don't understand why you've mentioned Butt and Smith. Actually, if you were to truly consider Jenas' situation with consideration for his replacement, you'd have to realize that the £7m went towards signing Scott Parker, who was as good as Jenas (the version of him that we saw in the last couple of seasons) imo.

It was fantastic business selling Jenas for £7m. I was, and still am, very pleased that we got that much for a player who attempted a sum total of zero forward passes in his last 2 years at the club. Just because he's a better player now (or just in form) doesn't mean that he would have gone the same way if he stayed. Even the captain's armband couldn't help him raise his game. And I haven't said anything about Nicky Butt, and neither have I mentioned Alan Smith so I have no idea why you decided to talk about them...

Some bloke at the Arsenal away game this season just pissing on the wall when he was actually IN THE BATHROOM. We were lining up and he only had to wait for one guy to finish up but nope, he just whipped it out and splashed the piss all over the wall. Absolutely disgusting

I thought Jenas stagnated and so had to go. I was actually pretty happy that we managed to fetch £7m for him, and as good as he's playing now, does anyone think that he would be playing well if he was here? He doesn't have the balls to dominate the midfield, doesn't have the vision to spray passes around and he would have been another average center midfielder if he was still here. On a tangential note, Parker's habit of passing the ball backwards was very reminiscent of Jenas' attitude on attacking and we all know how effective he was. We missed Bellamy dearly (and still do) and I think KK should make a move for him this summer. He's still injury-prone but I'd take him for anything up to £7m. He's still a very underrated player and he'd jump at the chance to come back here, no doubt about that. Only 28 as well. He'd be the perfect partner for Owen if we want to play expansive attacking football.

QFT

Keep your random philosophical musings to yourself, no one wants to read them

I'm just fake scared.

We need Spurs to score. Come on you useless tits.

At least we have proper defenders playing. Would have loved for Martins to start but at least our midfield will be balanced this time.

I'm not sure what he would learn in his first 90 minutes against Stoke, we were all over them. His next game was a draw against Bolton and we spent most of the game camped out in the Bolton half, again, he wouldn't learn much because we had games like that even when we were referred to as "The Entertainers." I'm starting from the Bolton game and the fact that we couldn't break them down, had no shots, no real chances at all would have given away a lot about the quality of our midfield.

Touche. Though he will have seen how shit our midfield is. Even if he thought Geremi was any good, he would have known that we needed some classy midfielders after 45 minutes.

If we survive, it won't be disgraceful. It'll have given him 5 months to have a look at the players at the club and 5 months to scout players. If we survive, it'll have been a wise decision not to sign anyone in the Jan window. Wise? Jesus Christ. It will be fortunate. Wise would of been getting some players in who could spark a very poor season. Wise? mackems.gif Fuking hell. Typical short-term outlook. Wise? Fortunate? Semantics as far as I'm concern. We won't be stuck with overpaid players whom we've overpaid for and might not even need. Typical short term look? Shut the fuk up man, If you cannot see that our inactivity in the winter window has had a negative effect on this club you want (and i've thought this for a while now) shot with your own shit. We are already stuck with overpaid wasters, and what's to say KK in the summer (and what's to say he would do it in the winter window) wont do the same again or equally as bad, stick with the wasters we've got and treat them like 1st teamers? So you're suggesting that someone who's been out of football for 3 years comes in and spends £10m each on players that he hasn't seen before to 'spark' a poor season. mackems.gif Why not wait until the summer? The season is a write-off anyway. I'm not going to get into argument about why that is the case, but the fact is, at the time Keegan came in, we had little chance of Europe. Get your head around that fact. This 'spark' would have costed us a tidy sum (since it costs money to buy quality players and they cost EVEN MORE in January) and Keegan wouldn't have fucking known who to buy anyway. He would have had to spend money on a) players he hadn't seen before, or b) lesser quality players that he knew i.e. Premiership players playing for mid-table teams. Now, which Premiership teams would sell to us in January for a reasonable fee? No one. Do you think Bentley would have come in had we offered Blackburn £10m in Jan? Do you think a team with an outside chance of getting into the Champions League would sell one of their key players for £10m in the middle of the fucking season? Why not let him wait 5 months to evaluate the players he has at the club? Why not give him 5 months to scout players around Europe before spending his allotted sum of money? If we survive, Keegan's decision not to spend will be proved to be very astute because he's now had ample time to see things the way they really are. Like I said, if you wanted him to spend money just to satisfy your stupid urge, then it is a very short-term outlook. All of this hinges on whether we survive. But if we survive, Keegan will have done the right thing. You make valid points to a degree but where I think it fails is that you don't realise that people can come into a football club and see straight away what the most overwhelming need is. Keegan would not have needed 4 or 5 games to see what we needed, he would have seen it after 90 minutes, and his people in the dugout would have already known precisely the same thing and confirmed to him that he was correct. Unless they are all complete dickheads of course. I don't think the decision to buy or not to buy is either good or bad to be honest, if it is Keegans and I hope it is because if people meddle into this area then he WILL walk out, I think the decision not to buy is an absolutely huge gamble, and personally I think they should have targetted one or two players and just got them, I'm thinking of David Bentley here who's value in the summer will be more than it would have been 6 weeks ago. I agree that he would have seen what he would have needed in 90 minutes, but could he have gotten quality, reasonably-priced players in during the last 2 weeks of the window? He was out of management for 3 years, I doubt that he had a shortlist of midfielders/fullbacks/strikers in mind when he took the job. I doubt he had a realistic one anyway i.e. players that would come to a struggling club with a new manager. And apart from trying for Premiership-proven players eg. Woodgate and SWP, what were his second choices? Third choices? 2 weeks isn't a lot of time for someone who's been disconnected from the footballing world for 3 years. And you might say 'oh well the club had scouts', well, did (does) Keegan trust the judgment of these scouts? If not, and surely you won't develop a trust in 2 weeks, then why would he spend money on the players that they suggest? Surely anyone can see that it'd be stupid to do so. Keegan's already mentioned it in an interview - 'scouts can do their job but ideally I'd like to see the players myself before buying them' is something like he said iirc. I've seen you mentioned the old board signing Woodgate but you're ignoring the fact that Leeds were in financial trouble at the time. There's no other club in the Premiership in that situation now. And there wasn't a quality player available in Jan because of circumstances such as the one that Leeds were in. Everyone has money, no one needed to sell and it was the middle of the season = overpriced players. I'll state that survival is worth paying lots of money for, so right now that's the be all and end all. But, if we stay up, then the gamble (and I do agree that it is a gamble), will have worked. I don't see why there's any argument on that. If it works (we stay up), then hindsight will have shown that his decision was good. Simple enough really.

So saving up money to spend on players that he'd know more about in 6 months is stupid then? Good stuff.

My bad. Point stands. I think

If we survive, it won't be disgraceful. It'll have given him 5 months to have a look at the players at the club and 5 months to scout players. If we survive, it'll have been a wise decision not to sign anyone in the Jan window. Wise? Jesus Christ. It will be fortunate. Wise would of been getting some players in who could spark a very poor season. Wise? mackems.gif Fuking hell. Typical short-term outlook. Wise? Fortunate? Semantics as far as I'm concern. We won't be stuck with overpaid players whom we've overpaid for and might not even need. Typical short term look? Shut the fuk up man, If you cannot see that our inactivity in the winter window has had a negative effect on this club you want (and i've thought this for a while now) shot with your own shit. We are already stuck with overpaid wasters, and what's to say KK in the summer (and what's to say he would do it in the winter window) wont do the same again or equally as bad, stick with the wasters we've got and treat them like 1st teamers? So you're suggesting that someone who's been out of football for 3 years comes in and spends £10m each on players that he hasn't seen before to 'spark' a poor season. mackems.gif Why not wait until the summer? The season is a write-off anyway. I'm not going to get into argument about why that is the case, but the fact is, at the time Keegan came in, we had little chance of Europe. Get your head around that fact. This 'spark' would have costed us a tidy sum (since it costs money to buy quality players and they cost EVEN MORE in January) and Keegan wouldn't have fucking known who to buy anyway. He would have had to spend money on a) players he hadn't seen before, or b) lesser quality players that he knew i.e. Premiership players playing for mid-table teams. Now, which Premiership teams would sell to us in January for a reasonable fee? No one. Do you think Bentley would have come in had we offered Blackburn £10m in Jan? Do you think a team with an outside chance of getting into the Champions League would sell one of their key players for £10m in the middle of the fucking season? Why not let him wait 5 months to evaluate the players he has at the club? Why not give him 5 months to scout players around Europe before spending his allotted sum of money? If we survive, Keegan's decision not to spend will be proved to be very astute because he's now had ample time to see things the way they really are. Like I said, if you wanted him to spend money just to satisfy your stupid urge, then it is a very short-term outlook. All of this hinges on whether we survive. But if we survive, Keegan will have done the right thing.

If we survive, it won't be disgraceful. It'll have given him 5 months to have a look at the players at the club and 5 months to scout players. If we survive, it'll have been a wise decision not to sign anyone in the Jan window. Wise? Jesus Christ. It will be fortunate. Wise would of been getting some players in who could spark a very poor season. Wise? mackems.gif Fuking hell. Typical short-term outlook. Wise? Fortunate? Semantics as far as I'm concern. We won't be stuck with overpaid players whom we've overpaid for and might not even need.

If we survive, it won't be disgraceful. It'll have given him 5 months to have a look at the players at the club and 5 months to scout players. If we survive, it'll have been a wise decision not to sign anyone in the Jan window.

I'm not bothered. Not the best of strikers anymore, we won't recoup much money for him and we're paying him a shitload in wages anyway. I'd renew but with a shorter deal and only if he accepts a severe paycut. I'd actually prefer a lucrative pay-as-you-play deal with substantial bonuses for scoring/assisting because at least that way we're not guaranteeing him anything, and actually creating incentives for him to play and score.

So Big Sam plays shit football, loses some games and should be given time? KK comes in and loses to Man Utd and Arsenal and should be shown the door? Have a word. I don't think he means that KK should be gone, but that Allardyce should never have been sacked in the first place because it caused upheaval at the wrong time (middle of transfer window, middle of the season ahead of a tough schedule).

With the exception of Zoggy, none of our players can push the other team back. None of them run with ball with any conviction and I don't think any of our midfielders truly knows what it means to pass and move.

Compared to the defence which qualified for the Champions League, Hughes Dabizas O'Brien Bernard Switch O'Brien out for Woodgate and Dabizas for Bramble if you want and it wouldn't change much because Woodgate hardly played. I rate Beye more than Hughes, and Faye and Taylor/Cacapa are imo, equal, to the pairings we used back then. And as good as Bernard was offensively, he was shite positionally and was always caught out (the Wolves FA Cup game instantly springs to mind). But, in that team, we weren't under constant pressure. We kept hold of the ball well, weren't pressured into passes and had an abundance of pace which pushed the other team back = takes longer for the opposition to attack = more time for defence to get set, and time for our mids to come back and help. Compared to the team we have now, we give the ball away too easily, have no pace which means the field is shortened and thus, when we lose the ball, we're very liable to losing easy goals (as Man Utd demonstrated), or being counter-attacked. The midfield's the problem, not the defence.

We're not that far off from being a good team (3 or 4 players imo), so in that respect, I agree with what Mort is saying. Two CMs and a right-winger. If all of them are top-class, I think we'll be a good team next year. And if Mort feels like it, we could spend some money on a striker as well. But anyway, our team doesn't need a full overhaul. As shit as the players have been, it's about the team coming together. We don't need galacticos in every position to be a team that can challenge for Europe. We finished 13th in two consecutive seasons with SBR before he bought Bellamy and Robert and that vaulted us up to 4th. I really feel we've got the fundamental aspects of the squad down. We've got a decent defence, one which I rate more than the ones which finished 4th, 3rd and 5th (excluding Woodgate's rare contribution), and our strikers are all capable, on their day, to score goals. In the same way as Shearer needed a partner like Bellamy, Owen also needs a partner who will do the work for him. Our main weakness is keeping hold of the ball, and that's because our players lack pace (= defence tightens up = no space = less time), and many of them lack the required intelligence level to pass and move (Smith and Butt *sigh*). If we can sort out those two things, and of course give them some time to gel, we'll be a good team.