Parky

This HAS to be a wind-up - MON is streets ahead of Allardyce. Expand?

i agree with that, but you can say that about any player, the more chances they get, the more they'll score, his conversion rate is just too low imo What is Torres conversion rate? Not saying Martins is better because he clearly isn't but Torres misses a lot of chances, the thing is he gets himself in the positions and with the chances created he will score. good point, i have to admit i dont have stats, but i watch martins more than i watch torres, seems torres cant quite lace up his shooting boots away from home but he looks deadly at anfield, torres is much the classier player though, excellent close control which means he can use his pace to go past people like they aren't there, martins just doesnt have that talent Spot On.. How much did Torro cost btw?

i agree with that, but you can say that about any player, the more chances they get, the more they'll score, his conversion rate is just too low imo What is Torres conversion rate? Not saying Martins is better because he clearly isn't but Torres misses a lot of chances, the thing is he gets himself in the positions and with the chances created he will score. You can't really compare Torres in a Liv side where he will routinely get 4/5 chances a game and maybe 7/8 as he did against us and Martins predicament. He is lucky to get one clear chance a match, it's no mystery many of his goals are self made.

The fact still remains that he would have a decent scoring record at any other top 8 PL club. We just don't create enough clear chances for the likes of Martins. Most of our recent goals have come in strange ways or set pieces.

That right back you've been feeling up is going to Manure.

I've already sent him a box of cigars...I figure he'll need the ammo in there.

Let's ignore all the glaring deficiencies in his game too, eh? 23. Same age as Adebayor, Tevez and Torres then. All clubs with a far better training set up and manager than we have. Going to a "good" club doesn't automatically mean that players improve. Just look at Chelsea if you want examples. Martins has peaked IMO. Good enough if we want to stay at the level we're at currently, but not good enough to move us forward. Which of our players do you think are good enough if we want to move forward? Give, Beye, Faye, Enrique (I hope), N'Zogbia. That's about it I think. However, the thread's about Martins, which is why I'm talking about him. You see I like at some of the players you've mentioned and I don't think they are good enough to take us where we want to be either, presuming you're comparing them against players playing for the better teams at the moment. As for Martins, I've made my feelings known about him before and that he's not as good as some make out, he's not as bad as others make out either, as far as us as a team go we look better with him in the team than when he's out of it, that's not necessarily because he's played well but because he stretches teams, not to mention being our top scorer, he's not good enough to be in the starting 11 if we were a CL team but he's good enough for a Uefa cup team which should be our aim. We'll find out how much we miss him come February when we've seen Owen and Viduka up front a month. The problem is the midfield or lack of it rather than the strikers. The fact that our best midfielder recently plays from left back tells you all you need to know about the qualities/or lack of - of the midfield.

"s*** first touch Doesn't no how to use his pace Can't shoot Can't beat a man Passing is s*** No awareness" All those can be helped with training. What about his high voice? Any hope for that?

Let's ignore all the glaring deficiencies in his game too, eh? 23. Same age as Adebayor, Tevez and Torres then. All clubs with a far better training set up and manager than we have. Going to a "good" club doesn't automatically mean that players improve. Just look at Chelsea if you want examples. Martins has peaked IMO. Good enough if we want to stay at the level we're at currently, but not good enough to move us forward. No it doesn't, but the problems with Martins are things that can be made less of a hinderance with good training and a manager who can look at him and see what his exact problems are. We have neither of them imo. thats the sort of codswallop that kept titus bramble at this club, like martins, a lot of his problems are in his brain, and you cant coach intelligence into someone, sorry Insane in da membrane?

Put a poll on it. a) Martins is shit. b) Martins has a shit shot. c) Martins is shot to shit. d) Martins is scatty. e) He has lovely thighs.

"...and time won't give me time and time makes lovers feel that they've got something real"..

We are just over 20 games in man. He hasn't bought all the players he needs to make his system work. Yes its w*** at the minute but to say after 20 games he will win nothing is madness. Top 10 finish this year will be an improvment on last year/season. We're now just as close to the likes of Reading, Boro & Bolton than clubs like Aston Villa, Blackburn & Portsmouth. Sorry, but that's pathetic. I am by no means happy with how we're playing etc. but I'm not sure how it's pathetic given the three teams you mention (in bold) all finished higher than us last year.

I still quite like him as a player with all his faults. Just wish he'd stop looking at the heavens everytime he misses a chance...He's ganna do his neck in like that.

Also the opp def can push up without worrying about being stretched.

He is a kind of beautiful anti-hero dontchya think? lol

If Sam Allardyce still thinks we need a defender before anything else I would kick him straight out of the door. And I wanted his appointment. And the board have to understand the club need some quality players, not cheap journeymen or "lower league gambles" if anything is ever going to improve. Factamundo. Some people have rose tinted glasses on and won't see this or want to accept, but it is the truth. These 5 year plans are bollocks. Winning creates stability not the other way round, and the sooner you get back into europe and winning etc the better. Ashers and Morticia need to get advice they clearly are only at the beginnings of knowing what it takes to run a football club. Get a 'big name daddy DOF' in.

Martins worked the channels, stretched them, created room for others. Owen needs service. That's not the point, it's the result that's important. Sam got it proper' wrong playing 4-4-2, and 4-3-3 the other week. Should try a 1-1-8 we'd score loads of goalz, I mean goals... If he had been on a few mins longer he would have put away that first chance imo. Maybe so. It was the only decent ball we played up to him that I can remember. If we HAD given him another one he would have scored his strike rate says so. Joking aside we have basically been set back by two bad descisions in two big games. But that will average out as the season progresses. Generally happy tonight. Zoggy was magnificent as was Faye. Beye gave Petrov as good a game as any full back this season at a guess.

Butt has been dreadful for weeks man. The way he let them carry the ball on then pick the pass into the box in the build up to the second goal typified him as a "defensive" midfielder. Shite. Howay, he was one of our best players against Chelsea. Butt is a little past it tbf.

Martins worked the channels, stretched them, created room for others. Owen needs service. That's not the point, it's the result that's important. Sam got it proper' wrong playing 4-4-2, and 4-3-3 the other week. Should try a 1-1-8 we'd score loads of goalz, I mean goals... If he had been on a few mins longer he would have put away that first chance imo.

I think you might be talking rubbish.

x months ago it was "Lennon so much better than Milner". Yeah Lennon is also better than Milner. Do you think a winger will resolve all our problems? There are a million things wrong at the minute and dreaming about wingers who we have no chance of signing is the least of m worries. Did you say something? Sorry Dave. Click happy it seems.

x months ago it was "Lennon so much better than Milner". Yeah Lennon is also better than Milner. Do you think a winger will resolve all our problems? There are a million things wrong at the minute and dreaming about wingers who we have no chance of signing is the least of m worries. There aren't a million things wrong at all. We had a very good first half but the second goal killed it. Two good performces on average against 2 top 4 sides.

Excuses? Sven is a top manager, vastly experienced at club and international level and a proven winner, Allardyce is not. Allardyce is an experienced Premiership manager, Eriksson is not. Fair enough, but it's not fair to say Sven has no experience of the Premiership having managed England for years. Sven might have picked up the odd thing about football management in his 9 years in Serie A. lol

Sven had more cash to spend and we sold two of our creative players and didn't replace thm. Sven had a year off to scout the players he brought in. Not a valid argument imo, Sam would have had his list of players he was keeping tabs on; and by all accounts (well one anyway) Eriksson just phoned a super-agent and asked who can we get. Sven had a year off to scout the players he brought in. Sven has a very good European contact list and yes some super agents in his pocket.

Excuses? Sven is a top manager, vastly experienced at club and international level and a proven winner, Allardyce is not. Allardyce is an experienced Premiership manager, Eriksson is not. What are you on about?