afar

Tbf, that's because you don't know very much about this football thing ;P You what? Just messing with ya.

Tbf, that's because you don't know very much about this football thing ;P

Seems very strange that he's practically admitted, he's actually got no money yet, just looking for backers. He's either a very ambitious and somewhat niave man or a publicity hungry whore.

On the Beeb site, contrast Phil McNulty's blog about Spud's problems with the vile that is written about us. It's well written, shows an element of knowledge of the situation and points out the real problems. Why do they just get lazy and rely on cliches when it comes to us, too far up north for them ?

Some of my balated musings: Thought we got absolutely mullered up until they scored the first goal, Everton looked very good. Butt again gave away a goal, this seems to be happening with alarming frequency this season, he's either giving away posession cheaply or making ridiculous challenges like this one. However because "he was once a good player", even when barton is fit again, I doubt he'll be dropped. His distribution as he showed for the Taylor goal, is pretty good sometimes but he's just becoming too much of a liability these days. After that though we responded pretty well, thought their second was a little against the run of play. I'm still trying to get my head around Enrique's withdrawl, all the danger seemed to come down their left, so we take our left back off ?? Whatever it was a strock of genius because seemed to change the game for us. Taylor's goal was crucial, and the after we got the 2nd, there really only was one team going to win the game, up until the last couple of minutes when Everton had some chances. JK got his team talk spot on obviously because they seemed up for it. Could this be the turning point ? Like Birmingham away last season ? I don't see any reason why it can't be, it's a shame we don't have a game for a couple of weeks because the players will be lifted but on the other hand it gives time for the injuryed players to get back.

I wrote pretty much the same thing in another thread, there is a lot more to what he said than would appear at first glance. Remember he'll have known about this press conference, his first pre match, well before and has planned what he'll say. I think we have to learn that the these days it's not about what you say to the press but the meaning behind it. I think JK has used this conference to get fans and players behind him and create that siege mentality you spoke of. Although it would not at first glance appear to be so with all the swearing but it's an extremely clever tactic and exactly the right thing to do in his situation.

I actually think there is a lot more to this than would appear, JK having a go at the press. TBH it's not been as bad as JK is implying. Where I think he is being very clever is trying to a) get the fans on his side, standing up to the press is an excellent way of doing that, just look at the respect he's gotten in this thread b) respect from the players, they hate journos and if they see there boss having a real go at them, they'll know he's in their corner and be prepared to fight for him c) creating an "us against the world" mentality, like he had a Wimbledon. The interview is fanstatic entertainment but at the same time extremely clever of Kinnear, I think he's gone about things exactly the right way so far, good on him.

TBH it's difficult to predict what sort of state the club will be in by May 2009. We may need to address the striker problem earlier than the end of the season though.

Not particuarily because if you read the question the thread poses, it says would you take 17th right now. All I wanted to do was to see what people thought our ambition for the season should be during this crisis. For me that was and still is survival, we for sure can't be expecting a challenge for Europe or even mid tible at this point in time. So to conclude I don't think anyone that posted that they would take 17th would look stupid if things start to turn around and at this moment in time IF is an extremely big word.

Not particuarily because if you read the question the thread poses, it says would you take 17th right now. All I wanted to do was to see what people thought our ambition for the season should be during this crisis. For me that was and still is survival, we for sure can't be expecting a challenge for Europe or even mid tible at this point in time. So to conclude I don't think anyone that posted that they would take 17th would look stupid if things start to turn around and at this moment in time IF is an extremely big word.

Another chance for him to fuel his anti KK agenda, he's been against him since appointed, probably music to his ears when he resined. No thanks, I'll give it a miss.

I've been so back and forth about this issue, first yes absolutely, then no probably best for a clean break now yes again because we desperatwely need a lift and KK will do it for sure.

Harsh Someone will twig on I actually bought that record, forgot what the A side was that went to number 1, something about chickens iirc. But the South African song was class, obviously makes no sense today but back then when apartide was still around it was very apt. It's in the loft at my mum's along with all my other vinyls from the 80's.

What does that make Spurs? I think Spurs are a tougher win for most clubs, we practically give the points away, the recent cup game showed that both teams were bad but we just edged it for the crappy team challenge. Their problems are much easily solved than ours too IMO, sack Ramos bring in someone who has a clue and they'll be fine. Unfortunately our problems are a lot deeper than just the managerial position.

Roll on the Newcastle games, we need a boost! You know that's what they are all thinking. That comment is very true, we are incredibly such a soft touch now. Even through our last few years of nothingness we've maintained a strongish home record, a lot of teams were pretty defesive when it came to playing us at St James and would galdly take a point away. Now it's like turn up and you'll beat Newcastle. This club is in intensive care atm, touch and go whether it'll pull through, I'm not so sure there is a miracle cure out there.

Don't mock me, it might sound ridiculous but I have a feeling we may win this one today !

You see, i have absolutely no right saying what you've put is right or wrong so i wont, (although my view is different to yours) but i would say that you've over simplified one aspect of your argument and thats the bit about Ashley selling, you've forgotten to mention that he felt he and his family were unsafe in the place he owned, a fear that was backed up by the assault on a lookalike. To me, that puts a huge slant on your final point. Would you risk the safety of your family knowing it was a very real possilbity? Does anyone even consider that he may of felt that he'd already done alot for the club and may of felt that he deserved more support? This is the family that accompanied him how many times exactly ? I wasnt counting. Does it change anything about the statement though. In the exact same situation, are you crass enough and pig headed enough to say you would of stuck around and potentially put yourself and family in danger? Especially if you felt that the club owed you big time. He doesn't need to sit in the away end with the supporters to "hang around". Plenty of past chairmen have put up with abuse from the fans before, but not one has been physically assaulted. Westwood, Seymour, McKeag and Shepherd all suffered tremendous amounts of abuse during there time. I don't deny there may be some knacker who'll try and take a swing for him, but the knacker would likely never get close enough to connect. His personal safety was never in danger, this was just a convenient line to make the gullible feel sympathy for him. it obviously worked on you, or does it just help fill your anti KK agenda ? I genuinely hand on heart dont have an anti Keegan agenda whatseover - i was extremely happy with what he was doing for the club but i just feel the fans reaction to his departure was far too much and they sacrificed something which they were practically begging for before Ashley took over, a long term sutainable plan and all for what? A manager who is absolutely synonomous with the club but someone whos managerial record doesnt hold a flame to some of the managers out there, and certainly not one that is any better than some of the candidates that were alledely interested in us. (CL Final, UEFA Cup vs Arsenal - semi final Euro 2008, CL/QF) All you're saying begs the question why should he have to avoid sitting where he wants? - isnt there a part of you that would feel the club owed you had you paid of so much debt? Sure you don't have an anti KK agenda How is this "Club" ? He is the club, he owns it. If you are talking about the fans owing him, we don't owe him a penny, we've only ever put money into the club not taken it out. Paying off the debt only made his asset more saleable or do you buy into the club going out of existence crap ? If so go post in the Macbeth/Scott Parker/Chezgiven snore fest of a thread.

That's like saying I'm surprised all of the people backing Keegan for walking out because he wasn't happy are not backing Ashley for doing the same. It's a pointless comparison. OK here's a simple couple of question please try to just answer yes or no. Was keegan right to walk out and not fight what what he believed in ? Was Ashley right to say he wants to walk away and not fight for what he believes in ? If you're not happy then I don't blame either for walking away, the main difference for me is their timing. So how is Ashley's timing any better than KK's ? The issuing of that statement was perhaps the stupidest thing he's done, left the club in the state of limbo that we are today, it's been three weeks since he left no manager yet and just been turned down by Terry f***ing Vegatables ! KK may well have thought, look it's only fair to give them to the close of the transfer window to see if they are going to make good. You could argue that he gave them every chance to prove themselves and they failed. And if you've watched any of the last 3 games the player recruitment team sure did fail. KK's comments suggest he walked because he couldn't work with a situation where players were bought without his say, yet he's already mentioned how they brought in Jonas under similar circumstances, if he wasn't happy with it then he should have gone then, he didn't though and left at a time that has hurt us the most. Ashley's statement was naive and has played a big part in us being in the mess we're currently in, most people are happy to accept that he wants out though so don't see it as anything like Keegan leaving. So how does KK not walking when Jonas was bought fit in with those like you that insist he's a bottler and not prepared to fight for his beliefs ? Surely it only proves that he was willing to give them a chance and try to change things from within ? Would you not have said if he had quit before the close of the window "Well he should have gevin them till the end of the window to prove the system works ?". At the end of the day the system failed to deliver, KK may have had to wait to show them that, that would have strengthened his hand somewhat to implement changes. But Ashley was too pig headed to change the system to accomodate the manager even when the evidence showed his manager was right. You think that statement played a big part big ? let me tell you it played a massive part in our current mess, the timing of the statement (which you said was the difference between what KK did and he is trying to do) and the words within it totally devalued the managers role and further demoralised the players. Niaive you call it, for a businessman it's bloody stupid to risk devaluing your asset in that way.

You see, i have absolutely no right saying what you've put is right or wrong so i wont, (although my view is different to yours) but i would say that you've over simplified one aspect of your argument and thats the bit about Ashley selling, you've forgotten to mention that he felt he and his family were unsafe in the place he owned, a fear that was backed up by the assault on a lookalike. To me, that puts a huge slant on your final point. Would you risk the safety of your family knowing it was a very real possilbity? Does anyone even consider that he may of felt that he'd already done alot for the club and may of felt that he deserved more support? This is the family that accompanied him how many times exactly ? I wasnt counting. Does it change anything about the statement though. In the exact same situation, are you crass enough and pig headed enough to say you would of stuck around and potentially put yourself and family in danger? Especially if you felt that the club owed you big time. He doesn't need to sit in the away end with the supporters to "hang around". Plenty of past chairmen have put up with abuse from the fans before, but not one has been physically assaulted. Westwood, Seymour, McKeag and Shepherd all suffered tremendous amounts of abuse during there time. I don't deny there may be some knacker who'll try and take a swing for him, but the knacker would likely never get close enough to connect. His personal safety was never in danger, this was just a convenient line to make the gullible feel sympathy for him. it obviously worked on you, or does it just help fill your anti KK agenda ?

You see, i have absolutely no right saying what you've put is right or wrong so i wont, (although my view is different to yours) but i would say that you've over simplified one aspect of your argument and thats the bit about Ashley selling, you've forgotten to mention that he felt he and his family were unsafe in the place he owned, a fear that was backed up by the assault on a lookalike. To me, that puts a huge slant on your final point. Would you risk the safety of your family knowing it was a very real possilbity? Does anyone even consider that he may of felt that he'd already done alot for the club and may of felt that he deserved more support? This is the family that accompanied him how many times exactly ?

Keegan was almost certainly undermined. Is the club better off for his departure under those circumstances? No. Keegan has gone and the fans are boycotting spending money and are demanding that the "Cockney Mafia" go. Will the club be better off for his departure under those circumstances? Probably. I agree with both your points Mick but I'm having a hard time relating them to the labling of "KK the bottler" and poor little Ashley whose been forced out.

That's like saying I'm surprised all of the people backing Keegan for walking out because he wasn't happy are not backing Ashley for doing the same. It's a pointless comparison. OK here's a simple couple of question please try to just answer yes or no. Was keegan right to walk out and not fight what what he believed in ? Was Ashley right to say he wants to walk away and not fight for what he believes in ? If you're not happy then I don't blame either for walking away, the main difference for me is their timing. So how is Ashley's timing any better than KK's ? The issuing of that statement was perhaps the stupidest thing he's done, left the club in the state of limbo that we are today, it's been three weeks since he left no manager yet and just been turned down by Terry fucking Vegatables ! KK may well have thought, look it's only fair to give them to the close of the transfer window to see if they are going to make good. You could argue that he gave them every chance to prove themselves and they failed. And if you've watched any of the last 3 games the player recruitment team sure did fail.

That's like saying I'm surprised all of the people backing Keegan for walking out because he wasn't happy are not backing Ashley for doing the same. It's a pointless comparison. OK here's a simple couple of question please try to just answer yes or no. Was keegan right to walk out and not fight what what he believed in ? Was Ashley right to say he wants to walk away and not fight for what he believes in ? Actually I know how you'll answer..... but, but, but it's not the same, of course it fucking is.

That's like saying I'm surprised all of the people backing Keegan for walking out because he wasn't happy are not backing Ashley for doing the same. It's a pointless comparison. OK here's a simple couple of question please try to just answer yes or no. Was keegan right to walk out and not fight what what he believed in ? Was Ashley right to say he wants to walk away and not fight for what he believes in ?

I respect you, but your idealism could lead the club to disaster. HTT isn't going to lead the club anywhere FFS. He's just one vocal internet geek spouting on forums, just like the rest of us nerds.