merlin

The TF article sums up most of what I have said about the club in the Blackburn match thread - I agree with almost everything they have written, and anyone who can't see that this article sums up the plight in which the club finds itself is living in La-La land. Although I think highly of Owen's skills, I WOULDN'T have made him skipper - but then, there is NO obvious candidate anywhere in the side, and I didn't rate Allardyce's choice of Geremi either.. Perhaps that is one of the main on-field problems ; there is NO inspirational figure who can pull the players together and create a team spirit...as for those wanting Barton to get it, well, how much respect would YOU have for this guy ?? The team is possibly the most dysfunctional unit in the Prem, with characters like Zog(the sulk),Barton(the thug)as against professionals like Beye, Owen & Given who must view the whole pantomime with contempt and their discontent transmits itself to other players...the 2 Argies are in their first Prem seasons and must wonder what they have got into...the players all know that Kinnear is there because nobody of any status will take the job, so how much faith do you think they have in him OR the Board ! On top of that, the manager makes the club look even more ridiculous by his spaced-out comments on both games and referees - this also puts the club at a disadvantage in future games as refs will undoubtedly talk to each other about his attitude and foul-mouthed outbursts...its one thing to do that sometimes if you are Fergie and manage Man U, a completely different scenario if you are Kinnear managing a football circus like NUFC... Having said all that, at least Kinnear stood up to the plate when no-one else would, but that tells you more about how NUFC are viewed in the game than Kinnear's courage - he was out of work,61 and offered the chance to manage a large Prem club for a FEW months - what would you have done in that situation? The main problem starts, as ever, at the top - the Owner, 'Chairman' - I use the term in it loosest sense - the DOF(again, in the loosest sense..)all fail to inspire confidence from either their employees or customers(the fans), and have given the media - always looking for an excuse to run the club down - plenty of ammunition to assist the demolition. This is basically what True Faith are saying - indeed, it is what MOST fans are saying - and they are almost totally correct. If anyone had told fans 10 years ago that Kinnear would be managing the club because no-one else would do it, or that the club looked a cert for relegation, the fans would have laughed in their faces - just shows how it takes a special talent to ruin a club of Newcastle's potential....

How dull would the Prem be without the comedy show that is NUFC..SOMEONE has to keep the fans of other clubs amused in these tough times....!! Seriously, I sometimes think that some fans have such low expectations that a team challenging for promotion in the Fizzy-Pop every year(and JUST missing it..) would be more satisfactory for them than trying to punch the club's proper weight in the Prem.......

This is the best point....

That's an intresting knee-jerk reaction right there. While I agree with some of your post your forgetting one key factor. Form, it can change, even with the slightest bit of luck. Yes in current form it isn't looking good but it only takes one large slice of luck to turn the whole issue on it's head. We just need to hope it changes sooner rather than later. Nothing to do with knee-jerk(I've been saying the side is not good enough to stay up for a while, and my RELEGATIONMETER assessment was a 7 - WEEKS ago..) OR Form...the players' attitude tells you everything because those that CAN play, don't want to, and those that may want to play aren't up to it.. I don't know whether you have ever seen a Newcastle side relegated, but I have - TWICE...believe me, this side is showing all the signs of those predecessors..

Bollocks. We'd be s*** in the SPL as well. s*** in the SPL is 3rd. I think we should make the northumberland senior cup, our no1 priority every season, Blyth would probably beat us tho. The club used to do that in the 70s and early 80s...

You are right, and that is what it took to get rid of McKeag in the end...all this 'get behind the lads' stuff is old hat from the 50s when they really DID get behind them because they had a good side who tried their hearts out. Ashley & Co are only interested in the dosh - if they thought they were going to get another financial caning, they'd soon get their finger out.. Door-mats get trodden on....

Another good post, BG - I also was sickened by Dyer's antics at Boro and players like him have ruined the game for me....the club, though, are just as responsible as the players if they were prepared to sell them all at the start of the season; its no wonder the best ones want to be away - its a shambles..

The writing has been on the wall for a long time, in my opinion, and this result/performance has just about confirmed that the club is going down unless a miracle on the scale of Flight 1549 happens. Unfortunately, whilst the lucky passengers on that flight had an expert in charge in the form of Sullemberger, NUFC has Kinnear , Llambias, Wise and Ashley trying to land the club in the proverbial Hudson without it breaking-up....my money would be on Sullemberger every time..!! There have been many on here who keep saying things like 'WBA are already down' blah blah, and 'Blackburn & Stoke are worse than us, so we'll stay up'... Well, those who are guilty, what do you think NOW ? I have never been convinced that WBA were certs because they have continued to play good football and the manager(who I rate very highly indeed)has kept their heads up ; their form is in direct contrast to ours, having won their last 3 home games, yesterday against as side that may well be in the struggle too, so a virtual 6 points...NUFC, on the other hand, have performed abysmally, ESP against sides at the bottom when they need to get points - witness yesterday's gutless perormance. WBA have played the same number of games as us, equally divided between home & away fixtures and they are just 2 points behind NUFC...if their home form continues as it is now, I would put money on them overhauling us.. Despite losing at Chelsea, Stoke gave them a real fright, and they too are showing more bottle than NUFC. Only the Mackems and Boro are showing poor form now, although Villa's win at the SOS was hardly a shock. The body-language of the players basically tells the tale - they are poorly-motivated, the best ones want to leave, and they are ill-equipped for a relegation battle ; all classic signs of a club in disarray.. The manager is totally out of his depth at a club like Newcastle and tactically naive ; the Chairman is a non-entity who shouldn't be in charge of a Go-Kart, never mind NUFC, DOF(in all but name)another square peg in round hole, and as for the Owner - does he EVER learn anything ? I think those who have never thought about it should start buying maps of England to find out where the Championship clubs are based - you'll be needing them next season.. And, if anyone thinks it will be a quick return to the Prem, look at Reading now...and ask yourself how long famous old clubs like Wolves have been down there... It may be that the years under SJH and KK were the best years we will have in the modern era and it may be 7 years before NUFC are in a position to make a return to the top strata of football - if EVER. I'm just glad I saw the club performing as it should between 93-98, and 2001-3.

Shay deserves better than NUFC - period. The club is as big a joke as it was just before KK arrived in 92, and any player who can better himself would be stupid not to leave if he has the chance ; would YOU want to be playing Fizzy Pop football next season if you were Shay Given...??

Things can(and will)get a LOT worse....

So people are still blaming all of this s*** on Shearer? Jesus christ, nobody even mentions him anymore. Man United still sing songs about Roy Keane. Is it killing their club? Get a grip! Are Roy Keane or Cantona or Solksjaer ever mentioned in line with the man united job when fergie hints at retirement? Are they f***. Shearer is, and its f***ing embarrasing. Until he has a little stint here, and fails, we can never truely be rid of it. So we've got Kinnear because people are worried that fans want Shearer? Absolute rubbish. Wtf, how does what i said amount to that? Shearer was a player for us, and great one. AMEN, let's put him to bed. Small time mentality. Well the main problem we're facing is nobody wants to manage the club. You've hinted that it's because of the shadow of Shearer (if that's not what you mean, what the hell do you mean?) No, i haven't. Never mentioned it infact. Not from the other managers angle either. He's not THAT influential anymore. However, it's embarassing that when the position for manager has come up, you get the feeling they seriously want him, Keegan practically begged him to come at some level. It's pathetic, he's an ex-player, let's leave it at that. TO move on, we need to get rid of that mentality, imo. Nobody knows for certain how successful Shearer would be as a manager, but if his attitude to the game and personal drive is any guide, then the chances are he would do a decent job at the very least - do you think that Kinnear is any better ?? There was a certain Centre Forward who was also a hero at both his last clubs and was a native of one of them...unfortunately, he had to give up the game at 29 at go into management at a lower Div side where he became a great success... Neither of his two previous clubs asked him to return as manager despite both being in a mess, and he went, instead, to Derby.... Do you suppose that either Middlesbrough(where he was born and scored hundreds of goals)or Sunderland(where he was worshipped and loved the club), ever have thoughts on what might have been had one Brian Clough ever become their manager...!? And do you wonder whether NUFC would still be regarded at the NE's supposed No 1 club had Clough ever gone to the Mackems....!!?? Perhaps you ought to give it some thought......

Giving Kinnear a 2 year contract is an admission of opt-out ; basically, Ashley is just desperate to keep the club in the Prem, even if its by the skin of its teeth, rather than invest in it and try to recruit a younger manager with long-term potential. If you look at Kinnear's record, you can tell what sort of club(and team) NUFC will be for the next few years and its not pretty ; take into account that one day(hopefully!)Ashley will sell,and then the new owners will have all the sorting-out to do and that ALSO will take at least 2 years.... Look forward to mediocrity for the foreseeable future, AND plenty of controversy with Refs, FA etc...

I still don't understand the stick Sir John Hall gets. I don't dislike him for what he did - more so because I don't think he was completely honest. I disliked his claim that the club would have gone bust without his intervention and I dislike the way he underplayed how much money he made out of the club despite frequently claiming otherwise. I also found his "Geordie nation" stuff patronising (though not to the same degree as Shepherd's). You are wrong about the club not going bust - it WOULD have gone into receivership for sure if SJH had not taken over. The fact is that he was actually on a World Tour as part of Alan Whicker's programme when dear Douglas phoned him in Sydney to say that unless they stood surety, the Bank would foreclose, so Sir John told Douglas that the Cameron Hall directors were to put a rescue package together, and he would take over when they got back. It is also a fact that the Bank(Barclays at the time)wanted to grab Sir John's personal Loan to the club which was made to allow KK to buy Kilcline from Coventry - crucial to the club staying up that season - because the club owed them money ; the personal loan was NOT part of the bail-out agreement. I do agree that he made a lot of money out of the club, but he took the risk in the first place when it could all have gone sour, and nearly did with Ossie in charge...unfortunately, that is what capitalism and investment is all about - look at our current Dear Chairman's gamble on Bradford & Bingley which went spectacularly sour and lost him 100m...that's life. The 'Geordie Nation' thing wore thin because he didn't follow up on the Scouting and Academy schemes - mainly because KK wasn't too bothered about that side, but Sir John DID finance the Falcons, the Cobras Ice Hockey, and the Basketball team in an effort to make the club like Barca - that was never going to work because most fans are just interested in Newcastle United. He also wanted to build the Leazes Park stadium, which would have been the best in Britain ; derailed by his having to step back from the club day-to-day due to ill-health, and lack of real pressure on the Council who allowed a bunch of nimbys to derail the project..SJH was ready to move to Gateshead if Planning Permission was denied, but too many fans were against it... As things have turned out, we wouldn't have got near to filling it right now, so just as well.... Personally, I don't give 2 monkeys about the money he made - he DID save the club when it was needed and gave it the chance of being a top outfit...he got old and its hardly his fault if those that followed him didn't build on the platform left.. When you talk about financial greed, you can find some much better and deserving targets just now..!!!!

How anyone could not rate any part of O'Neill's management is absolutely beyond me ; he is the man WE should have had and, had he been stupid enough to come to the comedy show that is Newcastle United, we would have been doing as well as Villa are now - IF he had been allowed to manage in his own way...

yes but when ur paying someone over 100k a week you expect f***ing 10x better then what he's doing at the moment It's not just Owen's fault, there is absolutely zero goals contribution from the midfielders. Duff, Butt, Jonas and Guthrie....how many have they got between them in half a season? It's pathetic. In total agreement.

A wind-up maybe, but my first thought was 'What have the Mansfield fans done to deserve this.??'

Too late for words - we need action ; transfers, new Chairman etc etc.

A huge topic with many solutions - mine are ;- 1. A takeover by someone who is REALLY interested and will devote 100% to the club's future 2.A new, permanent manager who is fairly young and keen to build a CLUB, not just a team.This means involvement in Reserves, Juniors, Academy development ; everything on the playing side...in fact, like SAF who arrives at OT around 7.30 - 8 am most days and deals with all outstanding managerial paperwork etc., the goes on to training, watches Juniors etc etc. 3. Constant development of coaching side via a/m manager so that a system of progression occurs like Shankly had at Liverpool 4.TOP CLASS medical staff and facilities 5.TOP CLASS Scouting system both at home and abroad 6. A general 'family feel' to ALL who work at the club from juniors and Tea-lady right through to Chairman & Directors ; a house divided against itself cannot stand..... 7.Enough finance to make SENSIBLE buys at the top level when the club achieves stability. These are the basic needs, and we have NONE of them right now...

AT LAST - the voice of reason...well done, BG, you are obviously a fan of many years who KNOWS what a bad team looks like. Do I detect a bit of sarcasm there? Apologies if not! No sarcasm at all, BG - I genuinely agreed with all you wrote.

The Chinese have a saying ; 'It is better to keep one's mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and prove the point beyond all doubt'..... I reckon you have just verified the truth of their saying...... Wasn't that Mark Twain? He pinched it from China - reputedly a Confucius saying, Brummie..

Dr Jekyll?? Sorry, but I think Mr Hyde has got the upper hand - maybe Dr J has taken too much of the 'potion'....!!

AT LAST - the voice of reason...well done, BG, you are obviously a fan of many years who KNOWS what a bad team looks like.

The Chinese have a saying ; 'It is better to keep one's mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and prove the point beyond all doubt'..... I reckon you have just verified the truth of their saying......

2 f***ing 1 on 1's he's missed in the ties. WORLD CLASS, CCCCCCCCLLLLLLLLLEEEEEAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYY NOT In that case, let him go to Man C or wherever, and affirm our RRRRRRRREEEEELLLLLEEEEGGGGAAATTTTIIIOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!! Hope he goes so you can get some more practice with your Caps lock....

Theres a lot of 'willing it to be true' too. He sounds just like the German finance minister willing the British economy to fail. Quite typical of the Germans actually, I was in Berlin most of last week and one of the big discussions was how much the NHS is on German telly, with them saying how thats falling apart too. A pattern emerging? I don't think he's willing failure more heralding it. I think the German financial minister was probably doing the same. I think most of Europe would welcome the English game losing it's financial clout and a return to a more level playing field and that seems to be happening. In general I think Germans admire the English game and are less anti than some other nations about our recent dominance. As an Englishman I would like to see the possibilty of a Czech, Romanian or Bulgarian side competing seriously in the European cup as a club built on tradition and national talent rather than 4 English clubs who have bought success and have virtually no local players. (Man Utd excluded - credit where due) You mean Platini? Agreed about the general sentiment but the idea of an open free market for labour, goods and services across the EU wasnt our idea, it was franco-german. When its not to their advantage, they lobby for changes that re-set the system back to their advantage. Personally think, f*** em. This is true, but it always has been - UK politicians are quite happy to go along with it because they get nice tax-free jobs in the EU after Westminster... Blair gave away Britain's budget rebate back to the EU after a hazy hint by the French that they MIGHT review the Common Agricultural Policy(from which their farmers benefit hugely).... what happened? No reform and you guys now pay MORE tax to cover for the increased contribution... Just one small thing....there are plenty more...