merlin

Probably the most vital win of the season so far - if this game had been lost, relegation would have been a certainty... By no means out of the woods yet, because the coming fixtures are tough - esp at home - but the club at least now have a chance of staying up.

I'm surprised you had time to say all of that with most of your time spent with your nose against his arse or your mouth around his cock awful reply tbh.... Completely agree and agree about the KK comment too. Kevin was our most successful manager in recent times and that probably coincided with the fact that he was the manager in every sense of the word. He knew what he wanted, got it and generally gave us the best years we will ever see. Even his second spell was amazing as that team he took over was doomed. Getting that lot to play football, was a miracle I felt. It was to some extent a greater accomplishment keeping us up last season than it was saving us from the old 3rd. Keegan wanted to do the managers job in the way that the job should be done. Control over team selection and also buying and selling. When he had that we were relatively successful and when he felt that was being taken away from him, i.e. the PLC, then he couldn't manage in the way that he was used to and probably promised. So off he went. Of course similar things happened with Ashley, he wasn't managing like he expected he would do (Wise etal) or even was promised and so away he went. I think Bobby had a good spell when he was managing in the true sense of the word, buying well with folk like Bellamy and Robert etc but it seems that he started to fail when his management was undermined. I am sure his attempts to get rid of Shearer (reported a few years ago....was it to Liverpool?) were the first indications that he was no longer fully in charge. I expect Bobby would have left on principle but of course, with his age etc, he had no where else to go and so continued with his power diluted. If younger, he would also have walked away when the contract was changed, as it was obvious his management was severely weakened. We had the same sort of thing with Gullit really. Probably a bad appointment but again he couldn't manage in a way that he wanted, again Shearer the stumbling point and so off he went. Not saying Gullit was right at the time but he wanted Al out of the pictiure and I imagine that Freddie disagreed with this forcibly. Whether right or wrong, Gullit couldn't manage properly and so left. Difficult to sort out the other managers in the same vein but Roeder was always under trial in many ways, Sam wasn't here long enough, although probably just as well and JFK is a puppet to some extent and again isn't a manager with real control. Souness I cant decide upon though his run in with Bellamy maybe suggested that he had full support from the chairman and therefore full control over team matters etc, just useless whatever power he was allowed. KK could not work under the situation of Wise etc and the buying and selling of players he didn't approve of and I feel thats why he left. Many feel he should have stuck it out but thats not Kevin's way. The job was not what he was told it was gonna be and I am sure if he knew that at the start, he would not have returned in the first place. Perhaps he should have chucked it as soon as Wise was appointed but maybe he didn't realise the full extent of the dilution of his management until that final day or so of the summer transfer window, when players were coming and going without his consent or even knowledge. Its hard to see another manager having full control but until this happens with a good man in charge, we won't go far. Those who have been successful have had this, best example of course at the present time is Ferguson. He has been a manager in the full sense of the word and I think thats the only way it can work. Until we have that here, we won't ever move forward and I suspect that its never going to happen and that Kevin and to the lesser extent Sir Bobby, may be the last true managers of NUFC. If HTT has been sticking up for KK in respect of this, then I would have to agree. Comments following his contribution could have perhaps been a bit more constructive but then agan, maybe the name says it all. I always enjoy your comments, KeithK - I suspect , from your username, that you are from a similar era to myself...! Agree with all you say, but would add that Wenger also has most of the control at Arsenal - both he & Fergie said that they thought KK was right to walk after the fiasco last Autumn and that they wouldn't tolerate interference in buying/selling either. Sadly, I believe we have seen the best of Newcastle United and I doubt very much whether the club will even be a serious contender for CL football again, certainly not under the present regime....oh yes, and your final comment ABOUT the comment was spot-on...!!

Totally agree.

Yep - agree with this.

I don't know why anyone is arguing about what may or may not have been in the so-called 'Fine print'.... The facts are that Ashley made a profit in the last transfer window - end of... He has NOT backed KK and the current manager is just a temp because no-one else would take the job. Its time to accept that the owner has messed up BIG time, and the club will be an also-ran for the foreseeable future.

People knock him for being a 'Plastic Geordie'..a bit unfair, but if he DID take the job and do fairly well, do you think he would stay if Man U came calling after Fergie retires....??

Ask the Scots if they thought he played 'Fantasy Football' up there.... You will soon find NUFC fans complaining if they DON'T get so-called Fantasy Football - look what happened when Dalglish was manager(and he inherited a tighter budget than KK), he was slated for playing 'unattractive football', but got us to 2nd place and a Cup Final..he was fired after the second game of a season because of the mortal sin of drawing the first 2 games, one away at Chelsea, because of 'Unattractive football'...what happened when Gullit got the job ? A load of idiots wearing curly wigs and chanting 'Sexy football'....what happened after that? Ask Shearer & Rob Lee..... And then, there was Allardyce......and then, Kinnear..... Mowbray got Albion promoted playing decent football - you can't get the players who have those strengths to play a different way in the Prem - its hardly his fault if he hasn't been given the dosh to get the players necessary to change the system ; and don't forget, he was a tough CH himself, so he knows all about defending... NUFC have tried getting so-called 'proven' managers, incl a foreign one in Gullit who did well at Chelsea...none of it has worked. The club's only option is to get a younger manager with potential and let him run the club on a proper footing without interference. Erm, Robson? Erm - he was 66 when he joined the club and although he did a good job, he turned it down when SJH asked him after KK left in 97....he also wasted quite a bit of money on bad buys and lost control of some of the wasters in the Dressing Room - that's why we need a younger manager who will REBUILD THE CLUB. The simple fact is NUFC have tried "so-called proven managers" and at least one of them has worked, which is why I picked you up on your claim that none of them had. Choosing a young manager is not the club's only option, it's simply your preferred option, let's not confuse the two. I'm all for giving the job to a younger manager, but that manager must (in my opinion) have some experience (ie not like Shearer), but if they pull a good older manager out of the hat then I'll be satisfied. The important thing for me is that the decision is taken based upon logic, that we get someone who is likely to be good and not simply because they will appeal to the emotional side of our fans. We've seen where that leads us and it's not a place I want to end up again. And who among the older managers is likely;- a) To take the job b) Be acceptable to the supporters ? Robson was for 2 reasons - he was a NE man and he had been successful not only in England, but abroad too... Look at the discontent when Redknapp was approached for the job, mainly because he was a Cockney and that he hadn't had the success Robson had. George Graham was mentioned as a temp manager after KK left, but this board had plenty of posters who thought it was sacrilege...likewise Venables, and these were men who had won things BUT - they were older managers. As it happens, I don't think EITHER of them would have performed as badly as Kinnear.... 'My preference', as you put it, for a younger manager is because the club needs someone who wants to be a success, NOT someone who is on their last pay day ; Houllier would be a reasonable stop gap, but ONLY with a younger man alongside him, and anyone who has faith in their own ability would NOT want someone looking over their shoulder or interfering in team affairs. I agree with those who say that its a gamble with Shearer because he has NO proper managerial experience, but as I said on another thread, that doesn't mean he might not be a success if given the chance ; we have had TOO MANY managers & false starts, and the next one has to be a stable guy who can grow with the club as Shankly did at Liverpool and Revie with Leeds. NUFC has been a joke club, staggering from crisis to crisis for too long - we need someone who will bring stability, progress and longevity to the manager's office - whether we can achieve this under the current regime is doubtful to say the least.

Ask the Scots if they thought he played 'Fantasy Football' up there.... You will soon find NUFC fans complaining if they DON'T get so-called Fantasy Football - look what happened when Dalglish was manager(and he inherited a tighter budget than KK), he was slated for playing 'unattractive football', but got us to 2nd place and a Cup Final..he was fired after the second game of a season because of the mortal sin of drawing the first 2 games, one away at Chelsea, because of 'Unattractive football'...what happened when Gullit got the job ? A load of idiots wearing curly wigs and chanting 'Sexy football'....what happened after that? Ask Shearer & Rob Lee..... And then, there was Allardyce......and then, Kinnear..... Mowbray got Albion promoted playing decent football - you can't get the players who have those strengths to play a different way in the Prem - its hardly his fault if he hasn't been given the dosh to get the players necessary to change the system ; and don't forget, he was a tough CH himself, so he knows all about defending... NUFC have tried getting so-called 'proven' managers, incl a foreign one in Gullit who did well at Chelsea...none of it has worked. The club's only option is to get a younger manager with potential and let him run the club on a proper footing without interference. Erm, Robson? Erm - he was 66 when he joined the club and although he did a good job, he turned it down when SJH asked him after KK left in 97....he also wasted quite a bit of money on bad buys and lost control of some of the wasters in the Dressing Room - that's why we need a younger manager who will REBUILD THE CLUB.

Yes, a great article by Caulkin, and he rightly puts the rest of the lousy UK media in their places. Everything he says is correct and, as one who was part of the last big challenge to change the club, I wish NUSC all the very best in their task. Unfortunately, times have changed now, and whereas we thought it was taking big money to shift McKeag & Co, it was washers compared to what is now required both to oust Ashley & Co and to rebuild the club to where it managed to get to in the mid-90s. The world is in slump so it will not be easy to persuade someone to come up with the millions required, maybe for a few years... If I still lived in the UK and was 10 years younger, I would be part of any sensible movement for change but you have to be sure it would be for the best - look what happened when SJH stepped down from day to day involvement....there is a saying 'be careful what you wish for - you may end up getting it'(I wonder if Paul McCartney ever reflects on this about his ex-wife....!), but the club couldn't be run in a much worse way than it is being now.

Ask the Scots if they thought he played 'Fantasy Football' up there.... You will soon find NUFC fans complaining if they DON'T get so-called Fantasy Football - look what happened when Dalglish was manager(and he inherited a tighter budget than KK), he was slated for playing 'unattractive football', but got us to 2nd place and a Cup Final..he was fired after the second game of a season because of the mortal sin of drawing the first 2 games, one away at Chelsea, because of 'Unattractive football'...what happened when Gullit got the job ? A load of idiots wearing curly wigs and chanting 'Sexy football'....what happened after that? Ask Shearer & Rob Lee..... And then, there was Allardyce......and then, Kinnear..... Mowbray got Albion promoted playing decent football - you can't get the players who have those strengths to play a different way in the Prem - its hardly his fault if he hasn't been given the dosh to get the players necessary to change the system ; and don't forget, he was a tough CH himself, so he knows all about defending... NUFC have tried getting so-called 'proven' managers, incl a foreign one in Gullit who did well at Chelsea...none of it has worked. The club's only option is to get a younger manager with potential and let him run the club on a proper footing without interference.

In terms of attitude(Nolan & hopefully, Taylor), we have strengthened - in terms of skill & talent, probably weakened....Zog had a stinking attitude but was more talented than BOTH Nolan & Taylor - Given a good keeper, but I rate Harper higher in some respects, so not too bad a deal apart from the ridiculous price. In the club's position, attitude is important, but talent can win you games....its a hard one, but I still think we'll struggle to stay up, esp if we lose to WBA.

I agree - was my choice after Allardyce was fired. Reasons? Look up his career on Wiki and see how has has been a real battler in both career and personal life(let's face it, ANYONE taking over THIS poisoned chalice is going to need ALL that..!). Has done well wherever he has been, and even Fergie would have struggled to keep WBA up on Mowbray's meagre budget ; plays attractive football and with a decent striker, would be higher in table. Still young(around 45), a NE lad and capable of building a CLUB over several years while playing the type of football the fans want to see, which is what Newcastle needs, esp the stability... Whether he would join the club if we went down and they didn't is another matter, but if we BOTH go down, its a possibility because he's been there over 2 years now, got them promotion, but probably realises there is a limit....there will be no doubt that he is aware of how big a club NUFC could be. Whatever happens this season,I reckon he's destined for bigger things.

I was 19, and in the Army, Benwell Lad..!! Missed the games because I was 300 miles away...just as well. The 3-3 draw ended with John McNamee scoring and swinging on the bar(at the Roker end, I believe.. McNamee was a legend - we used to call him 'The Bear', and people like Keane, who thought themselves hard men, would have been terrified of him ; remember him scoring against Spurs at SJP in a draw once, and it was sheer brute force that got him into the box and getting the equaliser - their defenders were bouncing off him....!! Burton was the more skillful defender, and I always thought that he and Bobby Moncur were a really tough defensive pairing ; added to Frank Clark and David Craig, they were the best defence NUFC has had for 40 years...no surprise that we won the Fairs Cup with that back 4. As you say, great days...sadly, we are miles away from that now, and I don't imagine that either the atmosphere(being in the old Leazes End was fantastic, you swayed 10 feet every time a goal was scored), OR the special feeling of being a NUFC fan will ever return.

Deserved a draw, no more, no less.... Better second-half performance but they had the best chances in first half - an absorbing match even if the quality wasn't great. Ameobi was just awful, but at least his pen was a good one - I was sure he would miss.... How any one can knock Enrique is a mystery to me - the lad was probably our best all round player, making just one bad pass ; great support to Jonas on the left and is faster than some people think. It will be a bad error if he is sold, he is going to be a good player - I always thought so, and it looks as if he has been determined to prove himself ; we need that sort of attitude.... Jonas had some great chances to put in decent crosses, but failed to make most of them count although he WAS heavily marked and you can't knock his workrate and temperament. Duff was - well, Duff.. Bassong very good, we would have lost without him, Harper also good apart from one mistake ; his block after we scored saved the game. Coloccini looks unhappy with the physical style of the Prem and was caught out badly by Cisse for their goal...I'm still not certain about his long term prospects at NUFC,but he would probably be a success on the Continent if he returned there because he IS a good footballer. Quiet but useful debut by Nolan - his tackling/chasing back will be vital if the club are to survive in the Prem. but sadly, I think this was a 'must win' game - the game at WBA will NOT be easy and in my view we are underdogs...if the game is lost, we will be firm favourites for the drop and I will raise my relegationmeter rating to 8 from a firm 7....

I thought the lad had improved considerably since the last time I saw him`; his physical presence does unsettle defenders and that is something we have lacked for a long time. Also, his laying off of the ball, and bringing other players into the game has improved. IF he keeps at it, he could be a useful addition to the side because it seems to me that most of his problems have been related to his attitude... He is probably the type of player Shearer would have been able to develop, being a CF. At this stage, he could go either way - develop into a good player, or become like Ameobi, hyped up to the gunnells and then failing to reach his potential, but he is better than Ameobi in some ways right now.

Give over man. You could probably count the number of folk who at the time then wouldn't want MON on one hand and still have some left. Milner is doing no more than he did here, the only difference is he's in a better team. You've said it yourself, his crosses still need improvement. What next, Zat Knight - the new Maldini? I don't know how long you've been watching this site, but there was a LOT more than 5 people who DIDN'T want O'Neill when he went to Villa..NOT that you are going to get many who admit it, although one has had the grace to do so..! And maybe it YOU who should 'Give over[...because looking at Brummie's comments, he has clearly seen an improvement over the past few weeks..is that so surprising, just because the 'Theatre of Excellence' that is NUFC can't manage to do the same with players....!? Are you counting those who'll have said they didn't want him (anyway) AFTER he'd gone to Villa which I would put down to a good old fit of pique? (Mr 75 excepted of course) Right, back to the main point. Milner. He's always had a 100% work rate, he's always had a great attitude. You say, and I don't think you'll find anyone disagree, he needs to improve on his crossing, so unless MON has injected some pace into him, exactly what has he improved on since he left us? You'll have to ask Brummie - as I said, we can only take HIS word for the improvement because he sees him far more than we do now - MON also said after the game that he thought Milner had been terrific, so he will know...we can only guess, but I would say that his anticipation may have improved because Robertson will have been working on both this AND his crossing skills.

After I watched Michael Owen score a hat-trick against us at SJP in Gullit's first game as manager and saw him applaud the Newcastle fans in the Milburn Stand who waited at the end to applaud him off, I had a feeling that he would play for the club one day..it wasn't just a psychic thing because I also knew he shared an Agent with Shearer. Its a pity the whole thing didn't happen sooner when Shearer was still a threat because , providing teh injuries had been kept at bay, they could have been the best striking duo in the Prem.

Has to be better than most of the current midfield, but I still worry why Bolton were prepared to sell him - its not as if they are in a much better position that Newcastle, but they obviously consider him as expendable. Should at least bring some aggression and link movement to the midfield.

You must be the eternal optimist - if the club goes down, you'll be waiting longer than a year to see it on TV again if you don't get Championship games there. The average time the club has been down each time it has been relegated is about 5 years - it was 5 and 6 respectively the last 2 times.......

There are probably 3 about the same level, including Kinnear - by rights, he shouldn't be within 100 miles of a club as big as NUFC, but the fact that nobody else wants the job tells you what a mess the Board have made of it since Mort went. Kinnear is there for the dosh, but I DO believe he is worried about the way its going and the fact that he has far less to spend than the likes of Spurs and Man C. He is all the present owner and board deserve - as the saying goes ; 'You get the Govt you deserve..'

I often agree with your comments, BG, but although you are correct in your summary of the club and its players, this isn't the worst situation since WW 2. I reckon 78 was the worst - the club had just gone down, it had a bad Board(I think Rutherford was the Chairman)which didn't look like changing at all, an uncharismatic manager in McGarry(although he was a better bet than Kinnear is now..!)and all the decent players had either gone or wanted to go... There seemed to be NO future, and indeed, it was 2 years before McGarry mounted a promotion challenge(which flopped at the last few hurdles and cost us Peter Withe who went on to win the European Cup with Villa)... It was to be another 2 years(1982)before KK arrived as a player, and another 2 before we finally went up in 84..even then, the board contrived to lose Arthur Cox before the next season started because......THEY WOULDN'T BUY THE PLAYERS HE WANTED....does that sound familiar...!!?? However, if the club goes down this time, it is a bigger fall from grace after 16 years at the top and being runners-up twice and Cup Finalists twice, as well as several campaigns in Europe and even some CL appearances. Also, it is hard to see the club bouncing back quickly because there is nothing in Reserve. Probably the SECOND-worst since WW2 - there wasn't as big a gap between the top teams and the rest before.

There are some on this site who will blame Harper for EVERY goal conceded, simply because they are miffed that Given is on his way - likewise, some who will blame Owen for being injured, even though he has gone most of the season WITHOUT being out for a long spell. The facts are that the club is in turmoil, the manager third-rate, the players largely not playing as a team and, in many cases, not decent Prem standard.. The whole thing has been an accident waiting to happen since all the disruption at the start of the season and relegation would be a just reward for those who are supposed to be running the club ; many on this board haven't seen Newcastle in the second tier of football, and you will not enjoy what you see if this happens. Difficult to see how a major improvement can take place in the club's circumstances unless we get a PROPER takeover - and that could take a few years. NUFC should be held up as an example of how NOT to run a top level football club - we had a brief respite between 93-2003, and it has been 'back to normal service' since then. The injuries sustained tonight have just about put the final touch to how the season will end....

Give over man. You could probably count the number of folk who at the time then wouldn't want MON on one hand and still have some left. Milner is doing no more than he did here, the only difference is he's in a better team. You've said it yourself, his crosses still need improvement. What next, Zat Knight - the new Maldini? I don't know how long you've been watching this site, but there was a LOT more than 5 people who DIDN'T want O'Neill when he went to Villa..NOT that you are going to get many who admit it, although one has had the grace to do so..! And maybe it YOU who should 'Give over[...because looking at Brummie's comments, he has clearly seen an improvement over the past few weeks..is that so surprising, just because the 'Theatre of Excellence' that is NUFC can't manage to do the same with players....!?

Where are all those now who said they didn't rate MON as a manager OR his style of football AND they didn't want him as manager at NUFC...?? Whilst Milner never had great pace, I always thought that O'Neill(and John Robertson, who also lacked great pace as a winger)would get more out of him than we ever saw at SJP - even KK didn't really want him to go, so he must have seen something in him. His crosses needed improvement certainly, but we can only go on what Brummie say because he sees him week in week out, and if he thinks Milner has been superb over recent games, it would suggest that Villa's management/coaching are getting more out of him than NUFC did - and that wouldn't surprise me one bit.. I also think that the player probably feels more settled(and wanted)at a club which is clearly on the up and ambitious ; whatever the merits of Ashley & Lerner, the American is clearly coming out on top as a club owner right now, and Villa are the only club with a realistic chance of breaking the Top 4 monopoly for the foreseeable future. If Pennant has an attitude problem, Milner will turn out to be the bigger success over the years - he has time on his side too...