merlin

I don't think the Villa fans would complain about parting with the 12m either...OR MON..! It was NOT a brilliant deal for NUFC because the money was not properly re-invested in the side..having said that, MON is getting far more out of Milner than NUFC ever did, simply because he is a better manager than NUFC have had(with the POSSIBLE exception of KK, but MON has won things as a manager and KK has not - promotions excepted).

Agree about Robson, but he wanted Barca to pay him off, he must have known that Van Gaal was going to get his job... As for other pivotal moments, I give you Cantona scoring at SJP in March 96 - had we won that game(after missing at load of chances)we would have won the Prem and been a totally different club, instead of what we are now, a club that a Wigan fan thinks is not worthy of Steve Bruce because he is destined. quote, for ' far greater things than Newcastle United'...this from a fan of a club that were playing Darlo and Hartlepool not many moons ago...

If Llambias is telling the truth about Kinnear being able to decide on who he gets then the same should be expected for any new manager. That's quite a big 'IF' - the words 'vow', chastity' and 'Cher' come to mind....!

So add a minimum of £50m on top of the 'crippling financial problems' (their words), is that what you're really saying you want him to do? I wanted him to invest the 50m into making sure the ream was not involved in a relegation battle - Oh, wait - that would have meant allowing the manager to manage.... If you'd had said that he could (and should) have freed up an extra 5-10 mil during the Jan window to get those one or two player that we will need if we get anymore injuries then i'd have agreed with you as that should be manageable in a debt sense and not a mad gamble. Throwing a minimum or 50m here and now is just crazy talk. Normally I would agree - but do you think it was wisely spent on gambling on the shares of a company that went down ? He lost THE LOT(100m), so 50 spent on players would have been a far better investment(in fact, 50m spent on booze would have been a better investment..!!). What a skewed way of looking at things, £50m would of been better wasted on the club....only it wouldnt of been wasted - or would it?? Incidentally the gamble took place before Ashley was badly affected by the recession...the other thing is that people are still failing to realise that spending big money would of added the clubs financial woes in terms of wages, supposing we add to the wage bill and fork out £50m in transfer fees, then what happens the next season - would the fans accept a curtial of spending? How do we look to invest next year? Do we sell those on inflated wages? Where is the next lot of money coming from? Howto we get to the next level without relying on Ashleys millions? The only way to do this is ensure that the players we do get represent absolute value for money whilst not spending on large wages. It seems to me that some people will excuse Ashley anything - once again, I have to say that you have your opinion, I have mine and I disagree with what he did, whether it was before the recession or not ; as I remember, it was early last year and by then, anyone with half a brain knew what was coming ; I certainly did, and pulled out most of our Superannuation before the big falls on the markets. Ashley has far more dosh than I have and is supposed to be a successful businessman so he should have seen it coming. In any case, he had taken over a supposed top rank football club and he had a responsibility to back it..... But surely clearing the £90 million debt and subsidising the club to £20 million a year is backing the club. Every supporter in the country wants their Chairman to spend more money, but you have to keep some perspective. Ashley is the first owner who has actually put his own money into the club. The previous regime was taking it out. Yes, I know that and I do appreciate what he did about the debt - that still doesn't excuse the position in which we find ourselves ; I know there is a multiple of reasons, but wasting 100m when SOME of it could have been used to ensure the club stayed in the Prem is very bad business...

So add a minimum of £50m on top of the 'crippling financial problems' (their words), is that what you're really saying you want him to do? I wanted him to invest the 50m into making sure the ream was not involved in a relegation battle - Oh, wait - that would have meant allowing the manager to manage.... If you'd had said that he could (and should) have freed up an extra 5-10 mil during the Jan window to get those one or two player that we will need if we get anymore injuries then i'd have agreed with you as that should be manageable in a debt sense and not a mad gamble. Throwing a minimum or 50m here and now is just crazy talk. Normally I would agree - but do you think it was wisely spent on gambling on the shares of a company that went down ? He lost THE LOT(100m), so 50 spent on players would have been a far better investment(in fact, 50m spent on booze would have been a better investment..!!). What a skewed way of looking at things, £50m would of been better wasted on the club....only it wouldnt of been wasted - or would it?? Incidentally the gamble took place before Ashley was badly affected by the recession...the other thing is that people are still failing to realise that spending big money would of added the clubs financial woes in terms of wages, supposing we add to the wage bill and fork out £50m in transfer fees, then what happens the next season - would the fans accept a curtial of spending? How do we look to invest next year? Do we sell those on inflated wages? Where is the next lot of money coming from? Howto we get to the next level without relying on Ashleys millions? The only way to do this is ensure that the players we do get represent absolute value for money whilst not spending on large wages. It seems to me that some people will excuse Ashley anything - once again, I have to say that you have your opinion, I have mine and I disagree with what he did, whether it was before the recession or not ; as I remember, it was early last year and by then, anyone with half a brain knew what was coming ; I certainly did, and pulled out most of our Superannuation before the big falls on the markets. Ashley has far more dosh than I have and is supposed to be a successful businessman so he should have seen it coming. In any case, he had taken over a supposed top rank football club and he had a responsibility to back it.....

So add a minimum of £50m on top of the 'crippling financial problems' (their words), is that what you're really saying you want him to do? I wanted him to invest the 50m into making sure the ream was not involved in a relegation battle - Oh, wait - that would have meant allowing the manager to manage.... If you'd had said that he could (and should) have freed up an extra 5-10 mil during the Jan window to get those one or two player that we will need if we get anymore injuries then i'd have agreed with you as that should be manageable in a debt sense and not a mad gamble. Throwing a minimum or 50m here and now is just crazy talk. Normally I would agree - but do you think it was wisely spent on gambling on the shares of a company that went down ? He lost THE LOT(100m), so 50 spent on players would have been a far better investment(in fact, 50m spent on booze would have been a better investment..!!).

You make a very good point about Gordon Lee - people slag him for selling Macdonald but he wanted to replace him with Trevor Francis and the board wouldn't cough up the extra that Brum wanted..he eventually signed for Cloughie at Forest... Lee moulded us into a very competitive side in his first season(75/76)and we reached the LC Final and the FA Cup Qtr final ; we beat Everton 5-0 abd it should have been 7, Coventry 5-0 in 5th round replay, Champs Derby 4-3 in the final minute, and Spurs 3-2 on aggr over 2 LC semi-finals..both Macdonald and Gowling scored plenty of goals(I think both exceeded 20)and Mickey Burns also got about 15...only the centre of defence let us down, with that clown Keeley as CH.. Lee still had Newcastle in 5th place when Everton approached him the following January, but the board's lack of ambition decided him to leave..we still managed to qualify for the UEFA Cup.

It was in a pre-season match at Anfield after Beardsley had just signed for us from Everton - he didn't play again for about 7 weeks. Never liked Ruddock and wouldn't be surprised if there was some intent....

So add a minimum of £50m on top of the 'crippling financial problems' (their words), is that what you're really saying you want him to do? I wanted him to invest the 50m into making sure the ream was not involved in a relegation battle - Oh, wait - that would have meant allowing the manager to manage....

The neutrals might have loved it, but to me it was a disaster - a game we should have won. Once Tino put us 3-2 up with that stunning, bent shot around Grobbelaar, we should have been capable of shutting up shop and taking the sting out of them ; we may even have caught them again on the break late in the game.. Defence entirely to blame, with bad marking for Collymore at far post, and on Fowler for their 3rd from corner(Elliott lost him..) - we lost our shape and the weaknesses in the side exposed. Had we won that match, I am sure Man U would have died..Fergie later admitted that he was willing Liverpool on, and I quote ' Us Red teams have always been better than the rest and I wanted them to do us a favour'.... probably the best example of 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' that I've ever heard, because usually, Man U & Liverpool hate each other. The sight of us winning such a game at Anfield would have changed football - because we lost, people began to see us as continual blowers, and so it has remained. Incidentally, Cole & Shearer shouldn't really take part, as neither were playing for us then.

SJH wanted Bobby Robson when Keegan left but Doug Hall and Fat Fred persuaded him Dalglish was the better choice. He's not about to tell the Chairman who to appoint after resigning the duty himself. That and SBR turning us down. Dalglish had a thankless task rebuilding the academy and reserves, balls up the first team mind! I agree - it was AFTER SBR turned the club down that KD was appointed.. Dalglish DID have a tough job because as you say, he had to restart the Reserves & Juniors as well as having to operate on a tighter budget than KK because the club had become a PLC in 97. I thought some of his buys were great value ; Given , Solano and Hammann for 3 and if he had not been fired - far too soon into the 98/99 season - I reckon he would have done a decent job.

Sir John took NO active part in the day-to-day running of the club after he left as stand-in Chairman in 1998. He DID tell the board to get their act together over their delay in appointing SBR in 99, but after that it was entirely up to FS & DH. No blame can be attached to him for signing Souness or anyone after him.

The article tells it like it is - once again, some people just don't like facing the truth. The Echo are quite right - if Ashley didn't check into the club's financial position properly, he has no-one to blame but himself ; a novice could have worked out that there must be massive debts because;- 1. We hadn't been the the CL for 4 years - 5 if you include the proper stages, so there was none of the large income that results from that 2. We had been wasting money on horrendous signings such as Boumsong, and sacking managers who needed compensation pay-outs 3.We had paid well over the odds for Owen 4.We had players on ridiculous salaries who patently DIDN'T deserve them 5. There was a large debt still owing on the ground development Even discounting all of this, Ashley apparently still had 100m to gamble on the shares of a bust Building Society...as I said yesterday, even half of this could have put the team in a better position... As most people are beginning to realise, the DOF system they have put in place is not, and WILL NOT, work.Its jobs for the boys...

To be fair to Bruce, he's developed as a manager so it's not only people lowering expectations. Some truth in this Mick - I WOULD be much happier with Bruce than most of the alternatives, but ONLY if he came with the assurance that he decides transfer policy etc ; that HAS to be the right of every decent manager.

i wished you'd used a different colour....anyway,here goes. point 1).....ie quietly supporting the team etc....what i meant was if we were top 6 no-one would be complaining about lack of communication etc. 2) we know what needs to be done ?----do we ? outside of appointing a better manager than kinnear few will agree will on anything apart from disliking wise and Llambias on a personal level without actually knowing what they do. 3) the bit about keeping an appointment with the arabs.................the ashley side of the story is that they already had a meeting and were offered a derisiory price. turned it down and went on the hoy. i have no reason to believe one story or the other..........do you know different ? Do you know that its NOT the way things happened - why would they say it if it wasn't true ? If can't mak their chances of getting the club on the cheap any better..?In any case, as someone who has been in business for themselves, I know that I NEVER broke an appointment, nor did I expect others to do so with me. As to point 2, yes, many of us DO know what needs to be done because its hardly rocket science - you appoint a DECENT MANAGER, agree a BUDGET with him, and provide him with a decent SCOUTING NETWORK to find future players...he then vets them and decides if they are HIS kind of player before signing them...you do NOT try to undermine him by appointing some guy who wasn't half the player that the manager was, or has nowhere near the managerial experience, over his head as so-called DOF ; NOR do you appoint someone who ran a Casino previously as your Chairman, esp if he has the charisma of a sideboard.... Had ANY of these things been done correctly, we would probably not have been in the dire position in which the club finds itself......and these points are just for starters. a) i don't know but we have two conflicting stories with no evidence,therefore until i get evidence i'll believe neither. b) i've said about kinnear aswell. as for the budget..how do you know they didn't. as for undermining keegan i'll await the court case to see if he was playing power games aswell (he has form) c) we still don't know what the relationship between wise and keegan was. d) appointing a casino boss as chairman.....why not ? take a look at most prem clubs chairmen and see if they are through and through football men ? ashley and his team have made massive mistakes. kinnear long term being the biggest. You are obviously happy with the status quo and the Board - I am NOT... You have your view, I have mine and we'll NEVER agree..I hope, for your sake, you are right, because, assuming you are younger, you are going to have to live with the actions of Ashley & Co for a lot longer than I am ...! typical response of the anti-ashley brigade. i'm not happy but i'm not blaming either. a) they took over from a shitty position. b) i'm not happy about kinnears appointment either c) i haven't got a clue about the remit of wise or Llambias so can't really make a judgement. i can't be right or wrong as what i've said all along is people are jumping in and making conclusions based on sod all and i'm not prepared to do that. if somebody does well i'll praise (i did with fred and hall) if somebody does poorly i'll criticise (as before unfortunatly). the biggest mistake they've made is kinnear. i could understand bringing him in for 6 weeks or so till the club was sold but oncde it became clear there was no sale he should've been thanked and replaced. in my view that was bigger than keegan leaving. ...'typical response of the anti-Ashley brigade..' In fact it is THIS type of response that indicates that you have lost the argument ; WHERE did I say I was anti-Ashley ? I said I disagreed with the Board and I do. In fact, I was very PLEASED when Ashley took the club over because I thought he would run it in a better way than Shepherd - has he done that ? In my opinion, NO ; he has appointed people who have PROVED to be just as bad if not worse...ask most fans about Llambias as Chairman, or Wise as DOF , OR the fact that Ashley swanned off to the USA when the KK problem blew up instead of sorting it out.... I am NOT in favour of unchecked spending on players or signing trophy-type players to keep the masses happy, but I most definitely AM in favour of people being allowed to do the job they were asked to do, and again, in MY OPINION , KK was NOT allowed to do the job.. I have no special brief for KK because I know he has a short fuse and can be hasty, BUT - in this case he was right and both Fergie & Wenger agreed with him. This incident is at the root of all the club's current problems - you can pass over it if you want, but making trite comments about the 'anti-Ashley brigade' will not alter the facts... 'By their actions shall you judge them', and Ashley wasted 100m on a gamble with Bradford & Bingley - money which could have been used to strengthen the side ; even if HALF of it had been available, everyone, including you, would have been jumping for joy....

Where are they all hiding, then? The trouble is that they DON'T..you have undoubtedly seen comments by people on this site claiming that they are not bothered which division we are in, they will still turn up to 'support the Lads..' !!

i wished you'd used a different colour....anyway,here goes. point 1).....ie quietly supporting the team etc....what i meant was if we were top 6 no-one would be complaining about lack of communication etc. 2) we know what needs to be done ?----do we ? outside of appointing a better manager than kinnear few will agree will on anything apart from disliking wise and Llambias on a personal level without actually knowing what they do. 3) the bit about keeping an appointment with the arabs.................the ashley side of the story is that they already had a meeting and were offered a derisiory price. turned it down and went on the hoy. i have no reason to believe one story or the other..........do you know different ? Do you know that its NOT the way things happened - why would they say it if it wasn't true ? If can't mak their chances of getting the club on the cheap any better..?In any case, as someone who has been in business for themselves, I know that I NEVER broke an appointment, nor did I expect others to do so with me. As to point 2, yes, many of us DO know what needs to be done because its hardly rocket science - you appoint a DECENT MANAGER, agree a BUDGET with him, and provide him with a decent SCOUTING NETWORK to find future players...he then vets them and decides if they are HIS kind of player before signing them...you do NOT try to undermine him by appointing some guy who wasn't half the player that the manager was, or has nowhere near the managerial experience, over his head as so-called DOF ; NOR do you appoint someone who ran a Casino previously as your Chairman, esp if he has the charisma of a sideboard.... Had ANY of these things been done correctly, we would probably not have been in the dire position in which the club finds itself......and these points are just for starters. a) i don't know but we have two conflicting stories with no evidence,therefore until i get evidence i'll believe neither. b) i've said about kinnear aswell. as for the budget..how do you know they didn't. as for undermining keegan i'll await the court case to see if he was playing power games aswell (he has form) c) we still don't know what the relationship between wise and keegan was. d) appointing a casino boss as chairman.....why not ? take a look at most prem clubs chairmen and see if they are through and through football men ? ashley and his team have made massive mistakes. kinnear long term being the biggest. You are obviously happy with the status quo and the Board - I am NOT... You have your view, I have mine and we'll NEVER agree..I hope, for your sake, you are right, because, assuming you are younger, you are going to have to live with the actions of Ashley & Co for a lot longer than I am ...!

Thinkers make good managers, none of these are really thinkers bar Platt for me. THIS is the crucial point - people like Venables and Graham were thinkers and had a bit of know-how ; most of the names on this list were just decent players who hadn't had to work hard to earn vast amounts of money from the game...if you take the likes of Fergie and MON into the equation, it looks different..I KNOW they aren't 'English', but maybe that says something about the English education system since the 70's....! In the 60s/70s, people like Clough, Harry Catterick and Bob Paisley were legendary managers...all as English as they come and all three from the NE...as was Bob Nicholson for Spurs, although he was a Scarborough lad.

i wished you'd used a different colour....anyway,here goes. point 1).....ie quietly supporting the team etc....what i meant was if we were top 6 no-one would be complaining about lack of communication etc. 2) we know what needs to be done ?----do we ? outside of appointing a better manager than kinnear few will agree will on anything apart from disliking wise and Llambias on a personal level without actually knowing what they do. 3) the bit about keeping an appointment with the arabs.................the ashley side of the story is that they already had a meeting and were offered a derisiory price. turned it down and went on the hoy. i have no reason to believe one story or the other..........do you know different ? Do you know that its NOT the way things happened - why would they say it if it wasn't true ? If can't mak their chances of getting the club on the cheap any better..?In any case, as someone who has been in business for themselves, I know that I NEVER broke an appointment, nor did I expect others to do so with me. As to point 2, yes, many of us DO know what needs to be done because its hardly rocket science - you appoint a DECENT MANAGER, agree a BUDGET with him, and provide him with a decent SCOUTING NETWORK to find future players...he then vets them and decides if they are HIS kind of player before signing them...you do NOT try to undermine him by appointing some guy who wasn't half the player that the manager was, or has nowhere near the managerial experience, over his head as so-called DOF ; NOR do you appoint someone who ran a Casino previously as your Chairman, esp if he has the charisma of a sideboard.... Had ANY of these things been done correctly, we would probably not have been in the dire position in which the club finds itself......and these points are just for starters.

Has anyone seen the Kylie Ad from 2002 on Youtube for Agent Provocateur....!! Even at MY advancing years, that gets the juices flowing.....!

Facts are facts - NOBODY wished this on Joe Kinnear, but its happened - the club needs to stay in the Prem and every action should be taken to ensure this... Whether he was the best man for the job has been questioned by many, myself included, but it doesn't mean we want him dead...

lyon are about the size of man utd in france in term's of support a huge club, + they are usually a selling club at times as well despite winning 6 straight league titles Olympic Lyon av attendance last season - 36,058...well below ours, let alone Man U.. Marseilles is the biggest at 53,000 - just above our capacity....... i said support, not attendance's ..And the difference financially IS..? I cannot see Lyon being massively popular in other parts of France or Europe ; as has been said, it is their CL income which is the difference and this is one in the eye for all those myopic NUFC fans who claim that 'success doesn't matter'...getting into the CL is VITAL in the modern game and a club the size of NUFC should ALWAYS be challenging for it - however, under the former or present regime........

I agree - this also happens on response boards to articles in newspapers, where clearly some of the contributors are Government trolls etc. The Board will NOT want fans dropping Season Tickets because they become disillusioned after reading others' views on boards like this and the fact that they have been so uncommunicative until this week indicates that they are getting worried about the general unrest, so yes, there WILL be people who post trying to ridicule those opposed to the Board's policies(I use the term loosely..!!).

Having looked at the first 3 pages of response to Llambias's interview comments on nufc.com(its always good to try to see what other boards are thinking), it is clear that the vast majority of fans there are NOT convinced by the Club's owner/board and their policy - and I have to agree. There are far too many anomalies in his statements ; things like trying to 'become an Aston Villa' are ludicrous because Villa run their club in an entirely different way to this lot ; they have a proven manager & coaches who have made progress with the team since day 1 ; they have an owner who most other fans will have forgotten about because he simply provides MON with a decent budget , allows him to get on with it, and turns up quietly to support the team ; in any event , we have already BEEN where Villa are , and even past that by playing CL Football in recent years, so Llambias is showing lack of ambition by implying that we have to use them as a standard - we KNOW what needs to be done but the Board and owner clearly DON'T ; they believe that appointing someone like Wise as DOF and a complete novice like Llambias as Chairman who then try to operate some supposedly-iconic system like the Continentals is going to be the answer to all the club's problems....this is the charitable version...the less charitable view is that they are cynically using the club as a cash-raising device by selling players with talent and replacing them with journeymen whilst making it up as they go along with such decisions as offering Kinnear an extended contract on the grounds that he is 'what they need'....I'll BET he is - I remember Stan Seymour saying that after the Board went up to Hibs and bought Ralph Callachan back in 1977 after Richard Dinnis and Gordon Lee said they DIDN'T want the player.... They have compounded this mistake by keeping the coaches in charge now that Kinnear is out of action, maybe for good ; instead of decisively going for a new, preferably younger manager(for the long term), or an experienced proven guy until the season's end, they have gambled on the club's future, probably out of parsimony... These guys are a joke and their lack of know-how and penny-pinching will return to haunt them big-style. I am NOT convinced and the sooner the club is sold to people who may approach Randy Lerner's outlook, the better for all concerned, otherwise we are all in for a few years of misery.