merlin

I have no time for the FA, but in this case, they are correct - had they brought a case against Barton BEFORE his trials, they could have been labelled as 'influencing' any Legal decision ; this way, they are taking action AFTER the Legal proceedings have taken place. Sorry, but Barton has asked for all he has received, and I DON'T think he has been badly-treated by the Courts - if anything, he has got off lightly...

Yes, I can also help you there - we WERE terrific against a side who had humbled us at Wembley only 6 months earlier ; Tommy Craig's left-foot passing absolutely opened them like a sardine can, and we had them thrashed long before the game had finished... I would willingly have swapped the two games around, as the World would then have been able to see just what we WERE capable of on our day, but of course, Craig wasn't with us when we played them at Wembley in the FA Cup Final, and strangely enough, I think Terry Mac had left to join them by the November game. Must also say that the game against Leicester when we had been presented with the 1st Div trophy on May 9, 1993 was unbelieveable - a wonderful fairytale way to finish a great season and a fitting farewell to David Kelly, who kept the Match-Ball after his hat-trick in the first half...fabulous stuff.

We were mugged, raped, cut up into little pieces, half eaten, burnt to ashes and then pissed on with that injury. If that injury had not happened, I think the minimum we would have finished in the Premiership in between 1997 and 2004 would have been 4th. We were robbed of one of the best strikers in the world after one season, someone who we clearly meant to build the team around. The resulting player was still a consistently good forward, but that extra bit of pace and mobility that meant he frequently got ahead of whoever was marking him had gone. Its also annoying to think what might have been without that injury with respect to John Dahl Tomasson too. That injury effectively ended Tomasson's career with us, as he was neither ready nor suited to playing as our main striker that season. I think alot of our fans dont appreciate just how good a player he went on to be, granted he never set the world alight but he turned out to be a good playmaker, a very intelligent forward all round, and a real goal threat from deep at the top levels. Would have been an excellent foil for a Shearer in his prime, and although that combination might not have been as spectacular or gifted as for example Bergkamp/Henry, it would probably have been more effective in the Premiership imo. Both players would have been like slippery soap off the ball and lethal once on it. But thats why its a squad game now. None of the top teams today are built around one player solely to the extent that if that player is out injured or suffers a permanent dip in form/class/etc then they wont turn into crap overnight. We should never have let the situation get to that, but for whatever reason, we did, and the fall has been painful to say the least. This is a great post, and absolutely on the mark - Shearer was never as good as he had been after being injured at Everton, and as you say, the resulting loss of a CF ruined Tomasson's career with us ; if people think back to his performances alongside Shearer in the pre-season games, he looked a very good player, and went on to prove it both with AC Milan & Denmark over 10 years.. Shearer's injury was the REAL beginning of NUFC's decline as a major force in the Prem - I am sure we would have gone on to be successful had this not happened ; I do not lay the blame totally at Dalglish' feet for the club's performances after he took over - we finished 2nd after being 7th when he took over, then beat Barcelona in the CL ; he also signed some good players, Nobby, Given, Tomasson and Hamman just to name 4 ; he fell out with Fletcher, and that was the end for him but had Shearer NOT sustained that injury, I reckon KD would have been manager for at least 5 years AND we would have won something. Some will not agree, but that is my view.

I think he's given an honest opinion as an outsider. Yes, I agree with that, Mick - Les has every right to give his views from what he knows, but if anything, I suspect even he has been rather circumspect about what is REALLY happening at NUFC ; I suspect that he could probably tell us more about the whole managerial set-up, such as how successful the tripartite of Wise, Veterre & Jiminez is proving, and whether KK is totally happy with it, but for various reasons, Sir Les is not going to do that - not the least of which is that he has genuine affection for the club & fans and doesn't want to put a completely negative spin on it all.... Time will tell whether he has been misinformed or not.......

Such as...?? And for how much??

without a shadow of doubt the best analysis so far with the addendum that we're headed towards taking the place of the aforementioned clubs and punching below our weight, we'd better be careful 'cause look how long it took them to drag themselves back Spurs, Everton and Villa ? ALL THREE of those clubs have had genuine real trophy winning success in the last 40 years since we did anything at all, and ALL THREE of those clubs were above us for the vast majority of this time. Its only recent history which has seen us get above those clubs for most of the time. I like some of your posts mate, but you have this the wrong way round I'm afraid. This is true, but NONE of those clubs have matched us for support since SJP was redeveloped after the club was taken over by SJH in the early 90s - and NONE of them would match us now IF we got back into the Top 4 and somehow increased the size of SJP OR built another stadium... IF being the operative word. I am abviously aware like yourself that the old board managed to finally get the ground re-developed after 80 years of bungling by previous regimes. Those clubs have only fallen further behind us - in ground capacity terms - since expanding the stadium 10 years ago, a move contributing hugely to our "debts" that many people slate, presumably because they think we ought to have kept the stadium at a 36,000 capacity. I've said before, the club should have moved. It is the old boards biggest mistake. When the Castle Leazes project fell through, they should have moved elsewhere. The council would have caved in when they realised the club meant what they said and would pull the club out of the city centre. I know some people say they simply wouldn't have been given planning permission to build anywhere else, but thats the whole point. They should have said "you will give us planning permission or we will move out of the city". I would put progress before tradition, personally. I would love the club to have a stadium like the Millenium in Cardiff. Sir John was prepared to move the club to Gateshead and bus fans' families to the MetroCentre(this would almost certainly have forced the Council's hands) , but he was starting to have health problems at the time(was preparing to step down as Chairman) and Fletcher & other Board members didn't press the Council as they should have done on the Castle Leazes project - then the Brains Dept(in the form of John Prescott) got involved and you know the rest..... The new stadium would have had a 75,000 capacity and sliding roof, so your Millenium Stadium dream was almost realised..!

The side is in deep Do-Do if no agreement is reached - I cannot see either party being happy to let the contract drag on to a Bosman 'Free' at the end of next season, so , if nothing is sorted on the wages front, expect a last-minute transfer to another club by the end of August, or , if other clubs want proof of his fitness, by Christmas. He will be very difficult to replace and we will be lucky to end up above 15th place if he goes WITHOUT being replaced.

without a shadow of doubt the best analysis so far with the addendum that we're headed towards taking the place of the aforementioned clubs and punching below our weight, we'd better be careful 'cause look how long it took them to drag themselves back Spurs, Everton and Villa ? ALL THREE of those clubs have had genuine real trophy winning success in the last 40 years since we did anything at all, and ALL THREE of those clubs were above us for the vast majority of this time. Its only recent history which has seen us get above those clubs for most of the time. I like some of your posts mate, but you have this the wrong way round I'm afraid. This is true, but NONE of those clubs have matched us for support since SJP was redeveloped after the club was taken over by SJH in the early 90s - and NONE of them would match us now IF we got back into the Top 4 and somehow increased the size of SJP OR built another stadium...

Agree with this post 100 percent. Yes - all this is true ; to answer the question, NO, not punching above our weight, if anything, punching below it, as we were for more than 10 years, the second-largest home crowd in England but won NOWT.. YES, we WILL have to suffer a few seasons of mediocrity before we are in any position to attempt to attain former status..too much damage has been done, but the club is at least almost debt-free by modern standards, and that will stand us in good stead over the next few years when others start to struggle with finances.

The likes of Bentley & Santa Cruz SHOULD be players that NUFC are capable of competing for - the fact that we aren't even at the races indicates 2 things;- 1.How far the club has declined in 5 years(players not interested) 2.That the money isn't there, either in wages or transfer fees for this type of player - this is given more credibility by the loss of the likes of Modric & Aimar(IF all the stories are true). Ashley HAS spent a load of cash clearing the club's debts, and he may well be correct in being cautious in the rapidly-deteriorating economic climate now facing the country..BUT - a couple of decent buys would have ensured almost a sell-out on Season Tickets, which currently looks highly unlikely - as does a decent season unless there are some breakthroughs by the end of August ; even then, it will take time to get new players embedded into the playing style etc., all being attempted without the benefit of pre-season training and friendlies....

f*** that.. there's no place for sentiment, yeah.. if you're a fickle Spurs/Chelsea/Man Utd glory hunter bullshit fan I have no problem idolising the players that have given their all for the club and showed not only their loyalty but their class for Newcastle.. I have no problem with Given remaining in the club, even if he's not as good as he was, because he's a legend in my eyes.. same with Shearer, in retrospect, playing him till the end might've cost us a few points, but he's been loyal to us and we as fans should remain loyal to him.. that's what being a supporter is all about if you know what i mean Comments like this show why NUFC are also-rans, and the clubs mentioned as having 'Glory-Hunter' fans are successful ; too many NUFC fans accept unprofessional and sentimental attitudes as the norm from the club, and reflect it themselves - there is no comparison in the case of Shearer, who was himself the ultimate professional and probably used to despair at some of the stupid things done by the club whilst he was a player. Shearer DESERVED some professionalism from the club when he was playing there because he should have been playing for(and with)people who wanted the same things as him - consistent success on the field..he should have ended hid career with a load of medals instead of 2 losing FA Cup medals and ONE EPL winners medal from Blackburn. IF he had become manager, you can bet your life that he would have sold Given if he thought the club would benefit from it.

Agreed, but unlikely he would leave unless the wages were almost up to SJP levels - would rather he left than Harper - poss p/x deal ..??

That's actally a very good point, KK is almost un sackable, unless things really screw up Ashley will alienate his customer base if he pulled the trigger. KK will stay as ong as he wants to IMO, which as I said above could be sooner than we think should he not receive the backing. If you think Ashely won't pull the trigger, then your head is in the sand!, first and foremost he's a business man and he can be a ruthless as any of them and we all know "fickle fans" have short memories! especially if Ashley gets a world class Manager in. All would be forgotten in a second. This is true & NO-ONE is unsackable in football with the exceptions of Fergie & Wenger for obvious reasons ; the length of KK's stay will depend on a) How successful he is, and how much money is available in the Transfer market ; b) how successful the team is on the pitch. Problems with factor a) would lead to more likelihood of HIM walking, problems with factor b) would be more likely that he gets the bullet, but I wouldn't imagine that happening until the season's end UNLESS we are in danger of relegation by Christmas...if he is allowed to sign another 3 or 4 players, and it all goes pear-shaped, he definitely COULD get moved on, but its unlikely if he gets the players HE really wants.

I think the bottom 3 are nailed on this year Stoke, WBA and Hull I'm predicting WBA to do well, above 15th anyway. Agreed - Mowbray is one of the best young managers, and will prove it this season - if he hasn't already..

Already sick of it, but , as was discussed on a different thread, I think the forthcoming economic downturn will solve some of the problems - the Top 4 will continue to prosper, but as other clubs begin to feel the pinch(AND the Sky money will dry up if people cannot afford the subs- this is one area I expect to be the FIRST to be sacrificed when budgets get really tight),they will have no competition and the attraction of the EPL will start to fade for fans ; no-one wants to watch a competition where the results are already certain before it starts.

KK is quite correct - any shortfall in the number of quality players being recruited WILL result in a long hard season, probably not much better - if at all - than the last one. KK is a great motivator, but he cannot make silk purses from sows' ears. The squad is paper-thin and even at its full strength, the current first team is light years behind about 7 other clubs'. As others have said, we can do nothing but await developments by 31 August, when we will be in a better position to ascertain how the new season will develop.

So do I - the whole ridiculous charade is out of control, and it won't be long before the Economic downturn starts affecting many clubs, possibly bringing the whole edifice back to the real world ; and not before time. Hard times coming for many clubs as fans find it harder & harder to pay to support them. Just wait until unemployment really starts to rise next year - and it WILL.

This is probably a fair summing up of the club - we DO have one claim to fame on the size issue, and that is probably the fact that we are(arguably)the biggest club NOT to achieve any meaningful success over the last 50 years ; even clubs like Luton & Leicester have had winning days at Wembley which we have not...Much of the reason for our lack of success is down to the club being either mismanaged from the top together with a degree of bad luck at crucial times. What is more of interest these days is where the club is actually going and at this time, we are a long way from being mentioned in the same breath as Spurs, Villa and Everton as 'big' clubs. I expect one, if not all , of these clubs to finish well above NUFC this coming season and the fact that Aimar has plumped for Benfica is another illustration of our continued fall from grace, although at least he has chosen a genuinely big club...would we be in the running for people like Bentley, for example, let alone Berbatov ?? How many on here would expect Bentley to sign for NUFC instead of, say, Villa if given the choice right now..? If you are happy with the club as it is, that is your choice - loyalty is a great thing, but NUFC have stretched their fans' loyalty to the limit, and beyond in the last 5 years.

Agree with most of this - however, the difference between now and 1999 is that there is far more money(and therefore competition for players)in other clubs like Spurs, Everton, Pompey etc., and that, coupled with the ability some of them have to offer European Football, means we have a much more difficult task to rebuild the side. I suspect a finish between 8th-11th unless there are some major signings in crucial areas by the start of the season

this will only apply when we sign (or indeed bid for?) someone of sufficient stature a club capable of hijacking the deal would be interested in, to date we're pretty f***ing far from that aren't we? Notice that I said 'if he is any good.'..!!

Missing the point here - they don't HAVE tp pay him 110,000 pw ; if we ask him to accept 80,000 and they then offer 95,000, where do you think he will go?? Even if another top club offers him the same, he would go as he is more likely to win things elsewhere..people are forgetting that, and also the fact that he would probably also do it just to p--- NUFC off ..we cannot win unless no clubs in the top 6 want him.

The reason NUFC needs to keep transfers quiet is that too many other clubs are capable of hijacking the player if he is any good - Man U can be relaxed about it because not many clubs can do that to them.. The same applies to Liverpool, Arsenal etc.

If he was playing today aged 25, we wouldn't get a sniff - even Man Ure would have to pay a record fee tp get him.

I agree - its one thing getting rid of a moody and erratic N'Zogbia, but a completely different kettle of fish forcing Owen out of the door unless the club has a replacement who will guarantee us enough goals(WITHOUT any off-field dramas, as Owen does)to keep the club safe, let alone win anything. If Owen leaves and we don't sign a top class forward, I guarantee we will finish in the bottom 6 - all those who disagree may wish to inform me who will get the goals to alter this ?