merlin

Would take Ashton like a shot IF his fitness proves to be OK following the ankle injury - Kewell was never the same player after his....Ashton would be a great foil for either Martins OR Owen, though rumours persist about whether one or either of them will still be at SJP next season. Distin would be a good signing for little money, and a decent Left Back is a MUST; Carr/Babayaro to be moved on, more chance given to Edgar - also think Troisi may come through next season, so maybe Emre will go.

Agree with this totally - its just plain stupid to blame kids for wanting to support these other teams/players.At one time, there was a possibility of NUFC becoming as big as any in the land(AND most in Europe), but those days have gone now, and probably for ever. The last few years of mismanagement have occurred at a time when the top 4 clubs were becoming virtually unchallengeable due to the money they were receiving from their success, and like it or not, money and success are what people want in this day & age. Kids get far too much in my opinion - all this crap about 'Peer pressure' etc is just down tp lazy & weak parents not being able to tell a child 'NO', so they get most of what they want materially. Its not good for anyone and makes people very selfish, but to expect them to suddenly be automatic fans of a club which has not won a trophy for 38 years and has suffered humiliation on and off the field, when they get 'the best' in other areas of life is like expecting a fox to keep chickens as pets ! Life has moved on guys - wake up & smell the coffee.Be honest - if you bought a decent holiday & got crap accomm., you'd be on to the Company like a shot.Likewise, if you have a decent motor and it starts giving trouble, you'd(rightly)be complaining bitterly to the Dealer and expect it put right. People have more choices than ever now, in every walk of life - trying to sell a vision of 'Gang Loyalty' doesn't work anymore, and the sooner Shepherd & Co realise this, the better it will be - I just hope its not too late, but I wouldn't bet on things changing soon as there now appears to be no hope of change on the horizon.

I really don't believe that Roeder would be so stupid. That kind of comment would inevitably backfire if he knew it wasn't true. This has Shepherd's fingerprints all over it. I don't expect the club to buy players, but I do expect honesty. don't think Shepherd has been honest to either fans or manager. You're expecting Shepherd to be HONEST with the fans...!!?

Kevin Keegan dramatically revived fortunes of the club, by saving NUFC from relegation to third tier of English football, and then bringing us in next few seasons to the very brink of winning Premier League title. Without him and Sir John Hall, Sir Bobby Robson wouldn't even have a chance to do much for the club, as without him our position would be so much different. Still, Keegan's fame will be overshadowed to some extent if any NUFC manager succeeds in winning either PL or FA Cup in this decade or early in the next one. Sir Bobby Robson is no doubt a true legend, but in most part not for what he did as NUFC manager. Remember too, that SBR was also asked to become manager by Lord Westwood in 1975, to replace the retiring Joe Harvey. Robson was at Ipswich then, but despite his being a 'dyed-in-the-wool' Black & White, he refused. This was at a time when he could have really done well - he was only 42 then. However, Lord Westwood & Co had a bad reputation for lack of genuine ambition(selling top players), so no doubt that had some bearing on Robson's refusal and you can understand that. I have less sympathy with his refusal to take the job after SJH asked him when KK left - he said that it was due to his sense of loyalty to Barca, but everyone and his Uncle knew that Barca were going to replace him with Van Gaal - I reckon Bobby wanted the contract pay-off , but that was his decision.What is indisputable is that we would have been in a much better state at that time, he was a few years younger - there was a load of money for players, and I reckon we might just have grabbed the title within a year or so. There is no doubt he did a very good job during his first 4 years, even though he DID make some poor value signings, but he should have gone gracefully at the end of 2003/4 - had lost the Dressing Room and the Club needed a strong(but RESPECTED!)new broom - NOT Souness. SBR definitely among top 3 NUFC managers of all time, but that is not saying much - he was at his best before he arrived.

It would be interesting to hear the views of those who saw most of these returnees as to whether their second spell was as good as the first ; the only one who really stands out for me was Beardsley - had a great second spell at the club under KK. Hibbitt was a limited success, John Craggs hardly played after he signed again. Terry Mac was also reasonable, but not as good as when he played at the Club between 71-74. Elliott nowhere near his best on the second stint(too many injuries).

That's a great post Mick - Agree totally.

Agree. I also think that those who slate Bolton for the type of football they play wouldn't give a toss what Newcastle played like if they were winning. Not that I think Bolton are so bad anyway because I don't. Allardyce may also be a different manager if he had bigger resources. By far the biggest factor for me is the fact that he is a stayer, he's been there for years, and improved them and kept improving them. Put against the fact that he can man-manage players, there are many players at Bolton who have been around and they respond to Allardyce, nobody wants to leave Bolton. Gary Speed has said that he is a manager who players listen to when he speaks. This is massively important for a club like Newcastle, it is huge. It makes me even more convinced that Allardyce would have been the man for us. Having said that, I am prepared to back Roeder which is something I never felt about Souness and Gullit too in fact, personally. Agree with most of what you say, but the title of this thread is a comparison between Roeder & O'Neill, not Roeder/O'Neill & Allardyce.

Lets just see if you still bring this up in a year's time- I will be VERY interested to see who sticks their head above the parapet then ; O'Neill has had virtually NO money to spend yet, but he will have in summer. This is not the time to judge - running a club is a marathon, not a sprint and it takes at least 1-2 years to build a decent side. O'Neill went into Villa very late in the close season, with no time to make a full stab at his own signings. If he is STILL below us at the end of NEXT season, maybe you have a point - and as for Roeder, lets wait until this season is over before making any lionising claims for him.In my opinion, Pearson has been the reason for our recent change in fortune.

To be honest, the best looking option for NUFC right now is to take a gamble on 3 players - Distin, Neill and Upson.I know Neill/Distin are free agents in summer, but LFC are after Neill, and it is better for us to test Blackburn with a bid right now, as we won't have a chance in summer. These guys sre not the best possible players in their positions, but are capable of filling other positions, i.e Neill can play at CB as he proved in the WC, so would be able to cover in the event of injuries. I believe Distin can also slot in at LB, so that also would help out. If Viduka could be signed for a minimal fee(WITHOUT any sort of trade involving Milner) I would go for him too, as I believe he would take the weight off Martins, and be a great target for Milner's crosses - he is very good at holding the ball too. These players would, I believe, give us a real chance of at least qualifying for the UEFA, and maybe better in terms of siverware provided we can get past Brum. I reckon we could do the lot for for around 10m, and recoup some by selling Emre to Bayern. probably a total outlay of 6m.

There are two things about this rumour which are quite astonishing - one is the fact that NUFC need defenders desperately, esp full-backs, the other is that there is ANY chance of Milner being sacrificed. Phillips has proved incapable of getting into Chelsea's side, whilst JM has come on in leaps and bounds since he went to Villa on loan.Milner is 21 and going to play for England in the near future - Phillips has had his chance, and would not get into the England side in front of Milner at this time - and Milner is about 4 or 5 years younger. Duff also was incapable of getting into Chelsea's team and we bought him - to what result!!?? Do you seriously want a repeat of this situation with Phillips ? Does anyone on this site seriously believe that if Milner was to go to, say Villa, that he wouldn't continue to improve under MON ?? I have said before that the problem with NUFC is that there is no consistent PLAN ro BUILD A SIDE - we have got at least 2 top-class wingers in Milner & N'Zogbia, and NO DECENT FULLBACKS... How often does it have to happen before someone gets the message ? We were doing this back in the 70's, only then it was Central defenders we needed in order to finish off a potentially good side. We are not exactly flush with CDs today, but fullbacks are a desperate need, yet there we are looking to change a position which already looks in good shape, whilst ignoring 2 that are hopeless. Ho Hum......

We had a spell of signing promising youngsters when SBR was in charge(Milner was one) and at that stage, we were still looked upon as a good bet for them to join - in the top 5 of the Prem, playing good football, Shearer still there etc. etc. The old saying 'any mud thrown always sticks' comes to mind - NUFC has degenerated so much in reputation over the past 3 years that players like Bale will always pick Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool etc ahead of us if given the chance, so it is basically a waste of time trying to get into an auction against those clubs if they want the same player. Only stability & success on the field will change this, and these 2 things will be a long time coming, so NUFCs only real hope is to keep developing its OWN youngsters - that's why Academies were so important to us, and should have merited prime consideration; you can't sign players outside the window either, which makes life difficult - in 1971, we signed Terry Mac from Bury, and the first time I saw him v Liverpool, it was obvious he was going to be a great player.He was right on the Scousers' doorstep too, and we pinched him because our scouts were quicker to the punch(he was only 20,000 pounds - imagine how much a similar youngster would cost today..!).Had the Transfer Window system been in place then, we may not have got him because they would have more time to assess the player.Don't forget, he was also a Scouser, so would probably have chosen them if given the choice.As it was, they had to pay us 175,000 for him in 1974 - big money in those days. The Transfer Window system is biased in the favour of big, lazy Clubs - little Clubs with good Scouting systems cannot beat them to the punch as easily now.

Yes, hat-trick against the Gunners on his debut - was 17 at the time, I believe. Did you guys know we actually made a bid for him at the same time Blackburn/Man U were in for him !?? I saw Sir John at M&S in the MetroCentre just before Shearer signed for Dalglish and he told me we had bid just over 3m for Shearer, but he knew it wouldn't come off - we were in the First Div at the time, although it WAS our Promotion season, but Shearer wanted to stay in the Prem, and he has said he didn't find out about the Newcastle bid because the manager of Saints was Ian Branfoot, a self-confessed Mackem....no-one is saying Branfoot deliberately kept it from him until it was too late, but you do wonder... Had he signed for us then, Andy Cole would probably not have been bought... Physically, he didn't properly develop until he was 21, but was much quicker before his injuries and was very strong at Blackburn ; once saw him shrug off Steve Bruce and leave the rest for dead before scoring his side's second goal to defeat Man U in 1994/95 - a goal which enabled them to win the Prem as it turned out.

This is undoubtedly the correct answer. Over here in Oz we get the UK Daily Express for Expats weekly - last week, a certain Mr McKay featured very prominently in the back page report about the Stephens Report on corruption in Football - apparently, McKay was accused of being one of the Agents who were obstructing the Enquiry by refusing to give personal Bank Account/Taxation details. Interestingly, one of the findings of the Report was that(Quote); 'Significant Conflicts of interest identified, including payments by an Agent to a firm managed by a relative of a club official.One agent acted for 2 clubs AND a player in a single transfer' (Have any of you managed to find out who this refers to..!!??). Also, Boumsong was the subject of scrutiny by the Quest team 'following his transfer from Rangers to Newcastle'...

As one Brian Clough used to say ; 'If your Aunt had b---s, she'd be your Uncle.... We didn't do it - end of story. You've got to MAKE History, not try to re-write it.. Don Revie once got a Gypsy to exorcise Elland Road because of a so-called Curse.

The Club IS cursed - by bad Direction/Management, complacency rules due to Over-Loyal fans who 'Demand' 'Attacking' football, which leads to trophy signings without any real check on the long-term fitness or loyalty of these players. There is no real Long-term planning, and KK certainly was NOT Shankly - witness the over-hasty and illogical scrapping of the Reserves'Juniors instead of all-out Investment on Academies of Excellence, both home & abroad. There always has been a lack of professionalism , which, when Liverpool were at their peak, was the hallmark of the way the Club were run under Peter Robinson - the 'Boot-Room' system pioneered by Shankly ensured continuity on the playing side, witness the seamless continuation of success after Shanks retired(in fact, the Club went on to win the European Cup AFTER Shanks had gone). To me, Liverpool are the club most like NUFC in their geographical situation(former major seafaring City, with Football-mad working class population who share a sense of humour), but there the comparison ends - they are still run on far more professional lines, and the fans expect success - ours are simply happy with 'Attacking Football' and being proud to be Geordies.Neither of these qualities will put pressure on the club to be run successfully. I remember Nelson Cairns being shown on Sky back in 96 when we looked like winning the Prem that year, and feeling sad for him that we fell at the final hurdles. I never expected that he would still be waiting for success now(or even, to be honest, that he would still be around !!), but I'm afraid that he will have to reach the magic ton if he is to see Newcastle as winners again. I am nearly 40 years younger than he, but even I am not confident of seeing the title at SJP again. Any new Board has a great deal of hard work in front, and the Game itself is corrupt.

Earlier in this thread, I said I was waiting to see what happened in the 3 tough games before passing any form of judgement...Do we really need to see what happens on New Years' Day to confirm anything!!?? Roeder MAY have taken on a difficult job - but that was HIS choice.The Transfer Market activities before the Season were NOT promising, and I remain to be convinced that he has full control of that area, but its is simply now a matter of survival until May - anything else is a massive bonus. Cannot see any other than big changes at the Club over the next year, WHOEVER is in charge...

Some of the negative comment about Moore is well out of order - OK, he didn't play for a while through injury, but I am willing to bet that the Club would NOT have made Europe last season if he hadn't come in and steadied the ship.Yes, his pace has gone, but his reading of the game is still good & he had a good WC for Australia. Don't forget, he cost us NOWT in the transfer market except wages - now, if you want to take the example of Bramble....!!

I find that bizarre. I always felt safer with Hislop in goal (even though he wasn't that great either). Disagree - neither were top class, but Hislop was much slower at getting down to ground shots than Pav - once saw Pav make a really tremendous save at SJP against Everton ; ball hit defender & Pav was going wrong way - changed direction in mid-leap, and not only stopped it, but held the ball too.

Agreed - I doubt whether the results at Anfield or Ewood Park would have been altered by having Given in goal.Shay is better in most aspects of being a GK, but he doesn't have Pav's height, and at Anfield, two of their goals were headers in the box, so I doubt if Given would have stopped them either. Also, don't think Given would have stopped Cantona's goal at SJP - it was the result of bad defending on the far post that allowed the unspeakable Frenchman to sneak in, and he finished well.We could & should have massacred Man U at SJP, but even though we lost, it was a moral victory as we played them off the park - had Ferdinand scored just before half-time when Asprilla put him in, we would have got 2 or 3. They DID go on a great run, but we should have held our nerve - we can always speculate with hindsight, but had KK been able to use players to kill off the games at Anfield/Ewood when we got in front, we would still have won, regardless of Man U.We lacked a hard, professional edge when we needed it, and clubs who win titles always have this - the only team ever to win a major trophy with all-out attack were Brazil in 1970, and they were a really brilliant side.Even then, they only had to play about 6 or 7 games to win the trophy - the League is a long slog, and you have to be able to dig in sometimes. I know many NUFC fans don't like that, but that's reality. That season killed us off as realistic challengers - certainly for the foreseeable future, and maybe for ever.

Agreed - also, don't think Martins is a sole up-front type of striker, he's not big enough to hold the ball properly. he actually needs a big guy like Ashton for him to play off, using his pace to get on to the target man's lay-offs.

Does anyone here(they will have to be 50+) remember Lennie Hepple ? Lennie was Bryan'Pop' Robson's Father-in-law, and he was a balance expert.He was credited for making Pop into the striker who was instrumental in us winning the Fairs Cup in 69 by improving his sharpness & balance on the ball. Well, during KKs time as manager, I used to see Lennie regularly in the Lounge before games, and he was a top bloke . KK invited him down to Maiden Castle where the team used to train, in order to work with some of the players, and Lennie told me a really interesting story about Pav - apparently, he was so athletic, despite his stature, he could bend down from the waist and pick up a pound coin in his mouth !! Anyone like to try that !!?? He could also kick his leg up the ring of a basketball net !! He was, as those who remember his first stint here will confirm, one of the best GKs at dribbling the ball round attacking forwards when defenders played the ball back to him to boot out - sometimes, it gave you heart-failure, but it was great to watch ! The crowd used to sing ' Pavel is a Geordie', and one day, he whipped his jersey off to reveal the slogan printed on his vest !! Think it might have been after promotion, can't be sure. Great Character, and really loves NUFC.

Agreed - these two, with Beardsley at his peak playing just behind them, would have been easily the best pairing . They were both great players with slightly-different strengths but complimentary and a real handful for any defence.Shearer's speed, prior to his injuries(don't forget the cruciate at Blackburn before he joined us) and his fierce competitive spirit, with Sir Les' all-round skill & excellence in the air would have been a nightmare to face. Goals could have come from a variety of sources - in the air, balls behind defenders(laid on by Beardo), powerful long-range shots ; you name it. These 2 have the edge over the other candidates.

As a follow-up to my posting, I have to add that Pearson seems to be doing a great job with the defenders, esp the young players. I was very sceptical when he was appointed, given his links with 'Captain Lager', but there is no disputing the improvement which is there for all to see. If this continues, I am prepared to admit being wrong, and give him much of the credit for the all-round team improvement. You will never have a great team unless you have a solid defence - even Clough, a former CF always built his teams from the back, so Pearson may turn out to be more important to our future than Roeder...

Credit where it is due . You cannot fault the improvement of late , but it is only a few weeks since we looked a relegation side. The true test will be performances against the likes of Man U and even Bolton and Everton away from home.Spurs seem to have been our rabbits for most of the last 10 years, yet I can remember when we could never beat them no matter how well we were playing. Another gauge will be the type of players signed in Jan - there have been links with Bailes & Barnes, both look quality young home-raised prospects.We would probably have to fight off Arsenal for at least one of them, so if Roeder succeeds there, he's definitely making real progress. My judgement waits until the end of the season - and NOT just in terms of any Silverware ! I think Knightrider has it right in the title ' the Right man for THIS Newcastle United...'

Couldn't agree more - he was awesome and we could do nothing about it (except buy him ) Don't you remember how he applauded the Milburn Stand fans who clapped him off the field..!!?? I thought then, that in the right circumstances, this guy might just sign for us...!! That's true, believe it or not, but his performance was still not the best from an opposition player(at least, from my experience). Sorry, guys - this comment should have been attached to the Owen Hat-trick thread - clicked on the wrong quote..