merlin

After reading a fair few comments from earlier in the thread, some people need to get their heads round the fact that NUFC are NOT a popular club anymore, especially in the south. We upset a lot of comfortable journalists by challenging the London-NW axis back under SJH and KK - also, to a lesser extent under SBR, but they weren't as vocal about him because he had been England manager. Once the 'Entertainers' tag wore thin and we fluffed the title in 96, they began to see us as Paper Tigers who they could laugh at, esp once SJH and KK went and again after SBR was sacked. TBF, they have had a point since then...we have had a succession of dire managers, a board which was nepotistic to say the least and then a new owner who has done his best to make money from the club by turning it into a laughing stock with mindless decisions...because he too is a Southerner, we are resented by people down there because we rejected him and his southern oppos like Wise, the two Spanish sounding guys , Llambias and managers like Pardew and the Womble King. The media don't like him because of his decision to give exclusivity to News Corp(SKY)and Mirror Group, so we get a bad press there. TBH, the majority in the rest of the UK would be delighted if the club folded tomorrow, apart from the fact that most of the PL get a decent points haul from playing NUFC and SKY get full stadiums to show every time they visit SJP. You would have to be stupid not to think that all this has gone unnoticed by the PL, the FA and Refs generally, and that is why they act accordingly... It has NEVER been easy following NUFC and it isn't going to change any time soon..!

Waddle was just as bad on our commentary in Oz....supported Marriner over almost every decision apart from his not awarding a pen for Thauvin's tackle..!

Regardless of the decisions made by Marriner, this match shows us that we have a number of strengths and a number of problems. The fact that the side kept Arsenal out until late in the game shows that in certain circumstances(i.e. when a team like Arsenal keep possession but use a slow build-up, we can keep them at bay because players like Colo, who was outstanding yesterday, are not having to turn and chase a speedy forward as would be the case if the opposition was playing on the break). Colo's experience enabled him to read most of what Arsenal were trying to do and the rest of the defence also kept discipline...Haidara gets crucified on here, yet he was second only to Colo in his defence effectiveness yesterday. If anything, he was safer than Janmaat on the other side. Until Giroud came on, Arsenal were also without a tall forward . We shall never know what would have happened had Mitrovic not been sent off and everyone has their own view about this player. It IS possible that refs have made their minds up that he needs to be watched and the foul was definitely borderline ; certainly a yellow and maybe a red although Coquelin, who dived and play-acted all game, was probably responsible for Marriner bringing the red out...together with his dodgy decision about missing the Thauvin tackle which should have been a pen. It is hard to imagine we would have got anything yesterday if the Pen had been awarded and Mitrovic stayed on the field....they basically outplayed us in m/f and with their off-ball movement although for me, Wijnaldum was just behind Colo for MOM yesterday ; his best game in a B & W shirt in terms of overall commitment and he was instrumental in taking the pressure off several times by his ability to hold and run with the ball. What we lack in m/f is a player with vision but we aint going to get one of those in a hurry. Anita and Colback did a decent job of stemming the flow in front of the defence, but Anita spoiled this by often giving possession away after intercepting the ball. Thauvin did a manful job on his own when you consider this was his first PL full game but he was never going to do it all by himself - the whole team was given just too big a task once Mitrovic went and several others were on yellows but even the Arsenal goal had a hint of fortune about it, being slightly deflected by Colo's heel. We may yet rue the fact that a PL-experienced forward has not been signed...Mitrovic out now for 3 matches and we face a tough few games yet with a trip to the Scouse-beating hammers next. There IS potential in the side but no back-up once injuries and suspensions take their toll...its also hard to see where goals are coming from at PL level and it is going to be late in the season before the side starts showing what it is capable of.

We won't know what this squad is capable of until they have completed a season....too many new/young players and it takes time to bed them in. However, I agree with HTT - the club should be capable of finishing Top 6 EVERY year, but never will consistently under this regime. Top 10 is what they want and whilst that target exists, climbing into the top 6 is a pipedream. Any position less than 12 is a fail, though, and so is getting booted out of the Cups by lower league opposition......

OK, I mistyped the stadium name(but to old timers like me, Man C will ALWAYS be associated with Maine Rd !), but READ MY POST...Did I, or did I not say HBA was TAKEN OUT BY DE JONG.. Incidentally, HBA could also be inconsistent but how you have come to deduce that I was stating that in connection with the de Jong tackle, I have no idea. Tbf your whole post didn't really seem to have much of a coherent point to it, you basically trotted the "french wingers are moody" line out It might have looked 'incoherent' to you because you clearly haven't got the intelligence to understand it - and don't waste your time trying to reply again, I am not interested in either the opinions or posts by people like you.

OK, I mistyped the stadium name(but to old timers like me, Man C will ALWAYS be associated with Maine Rd !), but READ MY POST...Did I, or did I not say HBA was TAKEN OUT BY DE JONG.. Incidentally, HBA could also be inconsistent but how you have come to deduce that I was stating that in connection with the de Jong tackle, I have no idea.

Haven't seen Thauvin in a full game yet so won't pass judgment until then but I hope against hope that he will be the real deal. Players of this type are prone to be inconsistent - that goes with the territory as they are often 'mood' players - but also very likely to be targeted by the opposition with often dire results...think HBA back at Maine Road in his first real season and clearly taken out by de Jong. Older ones among us can remember Geoff Allen(architect of our first Fairs Cup victory over Feyenoord in 1968)getting taken out by Peter Hindley at Notts Forest later that season in desperation as Allen was destroying him and we were 1-4 ahead at Forest at HT. Allen suffered Cruciate ligament damage and in those days that was curtains. He too was a left winger and brilliant with it. In later years, Harry Kewell, also a left-sided attacker, was badly injured when at Leeds and was never really the same player afterwards. If PL defenders see that Thauvin is a threat they will do everything they can to stop him - even perhaps man marking in which case we need others to step up to the plate. It will very interesting to see how Arsenal go about things on Saturday if Thauvin is selected and plays well.....

A good draw, they will bring quite a few fans and will raise their game at SJP - nevertheless, a great opportunity to make further progress in the competition(not before time)and a win here would start to make things interesting if there was a decent home tie in the following round. I remember our run to Wembley in 1976, it got really exciting after we beat Notts Co and the two-legged Semi v Spurs was a great tie. Hope the club can give the fans some similar excitement this season but that defence continues to worry - funnily enough, we had worries about CD in 76, with Keeley as steady as Williamson is now but when Supermac and Gowling(as well as Mickey Burns)were getting goals as often it was less of a worry then than Williamson is now because we don't have such prolific goalscorers.

Not going to happen - injury-prone and always has been...and for long periods too. We need a PL class CB.....like pronto. 7 days to go.....

We need Perez' mobility and change of pace/direction....he offers a great link between m/f and attack and works his socks off. He will prove to be an important part of the squad as the season gets going.

Pluses from this game ; Colo at last looking something like he used to be...credit where its due, a MOM performance from him A MUCH better attitude from the players after the first 20 mins...dug in and actually LOOKED something like a team for the last 20 mins of first half. Krul's save from Chicharito...a turning point. Haidara - much better from him and is a real asset going forward..his defending was mostly OK too. Mitrovic NOT getting booked and looking as if he could really trouble PL defenders once he gets up to speed...needs a partner though. Great header could have put us ahead although it would have been a travesty if we had sneaked it. The result - a confidence builder for both players and fans before the tasks that lie ahead. Negatives ; The side don't look collectively fit - faded badly in second half and we were lucky that Man U have not got a great finisher because we allowed them to camp in our half by constantly giving the ball away and players stopped finding space or running for each other...this is how we used to play when Pardew was in charge and McClaren has work ahead to alter this mindset. We lack a playmaker like Cabaye..I said this last week and after we faded it was even more obvious. If Cabaye was alongside Wijnaldum we would look - and be - a far more dangerous side although Wijnaldum himself has faded in the second period of the games played so far...some of this will be altered as he adjusts to the PL pace but also down to the fact that he is the only m/f player with pace and skill..and he knows it so has to take more responsibility. A player like Cabaye would help us keep possession more often and if we continue to give the ball away we will lose a lot of games. Churlish to say much more, but everyone knows where the weaknesses are... In summary, more absorbing than enjoyable - we rode our luck, but a vast improvement on last week's debacle. Before anyone gets carried away, look at what happened with Bournemouth - newly-promoted teams often produce shock results, but once we start beating the likes of WHU away from home we can say we are really making progress. I hope this result doesn't end up with the club thinking they can do without another CB, because Taylor will soon be injured again...

As one who witnessed his debut v Spurs - and in which he cheekily forced Ray Clemence into a great save from a direct FK, I always feel that this lad could have been one of the very best midfielders England ever had...if only he had had half a brain or a better manager when at Newcastle after Charlton left. Very sad what happened to him, he was far more talented than Beckham and should have been a far bigger star, but he was not married to a Spice Girl..

Is that his missus? Good Lord. If his skills are anything like his taste in women he should turn out to be worth a mint - one of the best looking wags I've seen for a long time. Oh to be young again...and rich, of course..

Wish Armstrong all the best but when he starts scoring at a Championship club, then we know he's the real deal. He is probably playing a strata below his current ability level but we can only hope he keeps progressing.

The mess at NUFC isn't only because there is a lack of knowledge at the top...there certainly is, but there is also a LACK OF WILL to do anything about it as long as the club steers clear of relegation. Swansea and Saints WANT to achieve things(Swansea actually won the LC a couple of years ago)whereas NUFC has been(and probably still will be)run purely to stay in the PL and without any desire to win silverware. As you say, there is NO continuity in the transfer market and players are bought purely for what the can realize financially in future years rather than to fill a glaring gap in the side or in anticipation of a departure. Until I see things happening differently, I will never believe that the club's policy has changed, no matter WHAT Ashley might say on his 'preferred' media outlet(i.e., one that doesn't criticize him or the club's lack of success). Swansea and Saints make us look the amateurs we are.

In Ashley's world - yes. There is more exposure in the big city areas of both Europe and worldwide when you are in the CL. NUFC under him are just also-rans in the PL and will remain that way whereas Rangers will almost always qualify for the CL after establishing themselves in the SPL again...don't forget, Ashley was quite happy to send NUFC to NZ for pre-season last year in an attempt to get into...the AUSSIE market ! If he and Charnley knew what they were about they would have arranged friendlies in Oz like Liverpool and Man U did this year...they played in front of capacity crowds and cemented their support in Australia which is a much bigger country. Then again, with a small squad like ours, pre-season should probably be against clubs like Gateshead & Darlo because we don't have to travel far...!

Much of what HTT says is correct, but right now we have no alternative than to give McClaren several more games to get a team sorted out and that means a team capable of at least winning most of its home games and being able to collect some points away from home. The whole problem is that we were NEVER going to get a top manager under Ashley and whilst he remains as owner we never will because none of them would accept the job under the lousy conditions they have to work under, i.e. beholden to the likes of Penfold(now he really IS out of his depth) to organize pre-season(which is done to suit Ashley's marketing plans)and sign quality players in the positions we need in time to get them into a pattern before a season starts... NUFC is undoubtedly the biggest club McClaren has had to manage and there is little doubt that, under a more ambitious and focussed owner, he wouldn't be manager now but we are stuck with him and he does at least deserve 10 games to sort things out ; having said that, the signs are not great because he has stuck with players who are clearly either not good enough(Obertan etc)or players that are past their best(Colo). He has very few options, but the likes of Aarons, Perez and Mitrovic should be at least given a decent spell to show what they can do because we are weak in the positions they play in right now. The team lacks a playmaker(like Cabaye)and a decent CB but at least one of these positions is NOT going to be rectified before January at the earliest. I hope Thauvin improves wing service, but I am a bit wary that he may turn out to be another Cabella and lightweight for the PL - if so, the money will have been wasted as it could have been spent on one of the positions we are weaker in. McClaren's forte in the past seems to have been as a decent coach - if so, he will need to use every bit of that experience to get the best from what he has to work with because we are clearly NOT going to get signings that will address the major problems in the side. If the team is showing no improvement by January, then questions about his managerial capabilities should and will be asked but he has an unenviable task which not many others in his profession would either relish or accept. The biggest question should be more about how long Ashley will hang on to the club if we look like being dragged into a relegation battle again...Rangers are already showing signs of storming the Scottish Championship and he may see their possible promotion back to the SPL as a better vehicle for his European marketing although he may wait until they actually qualify for the CL in a year or 2 - not a happy prospect for NUFC fans....

I've always liked this lad but he was desperate on Saturday - his sending off was fully deserved and just plain stupid. When he went, any chance of getting something went with him and that was already slim enough.

Cisse is not and never has been, a target man...too easily brushed off the ball and poor control under pressure from defenders. Complete waste of space when played as a lone striker and as this seems to be McClaren's preferred system, he should be sold and a better holding striker brought in. Cisse's best season was when he had Ba taking the weight off him and Cabaye providing better service from m/f. He is purely and simply a poacher.

I hope this guy is worth the money because defence is our biggest problem and unless we get another striker we are not going to be able to score enough to win points...Thauvin MIGHT be a good player, but he's a luxury unless we stop goals going in at the back.

Very well put, A small club like Swansea who obviously have intelligent football people running their affairs, continue to leave us standing when it comes to sensible decisions and appointments. God only knows how successful our club could be with such people at the helm. We won't find out for a long time...if ever. NUFC is always going to be a tempting money machine for whoever owns it...

This mismatch only went to prove what I thought last week - McClaren has a heap of work to do in sorting this team out and he won't do it with the current personnel, or at least, a large percentage of them. Apart from a 10 minute spell before Janmaat stupidly(there is no other word for it)got himself sent off and we threatened to make a game of it, Swansea were streets ahead...and that applies not only on the pitch, but with their whole ethos as a club because they shouldn't be in the same street as NUFC when it comes to potential but also when you look at how they have steadily built a better side and established themselves as a PL side likely to finish Top 8. They have a progressive and astute board, a seemingly fine young manager, a united fan base and are supported by their local authority...compare this with the total shambles which has been Newcastle United under Ashley, with the constant unrest off the field due to lousy decision-making at the top which has led to a constantly fractured team on the field, with good players(how we could have done with Cabaye yesterday, there was NOBODY pulling the strings or with the vision to make things happen)being sold off and not replaced halfway through a season ; in case anyone needs reminding, we have flirted closely with relegation twice in the last few years and been relegated once under this regime - I can remember Swansea being beaten at Darlington in years gone by, which shows you just how much they have advanced and how much we have gone retrograde in the past 10 years. South Wales is a rugby place, but Swansea have turned all this around to become a very good PL outfit whilst we, the club with the third largest stadium in the PL, are often linked with relegation and struggle as well as being the standing joke of the football world. The game yesterday was an outstanding example of how clubs with ambition but limited resources(in comparison)can leave potentially top clubs standing because they are run properly and have the confidence of their fans. We are so limited in cover for crucial positions, due largely to Ashley's penny-pinching policies, that McClaren had little choice but to persist with Janmaat following his booking early in the game instead of being able to sub him after he was lucky to escape a second booking before the inevitable happened ; we are so limited that the manager had to play Colo and Mbembe together last week after one had just been signed and the other had done little pre-season and CD will be a nightmare for most of this season unless there are more signings before 1 Sept, which to date has been looking unlikely. The lack of firepower up front is obvious ; Cisse is poor as a target man anyway and was left largely isolated, with only Obertan trying to get wasteful shots in from outside the box. There was NOBODY pulling the m/f strings, Wijnaldum is clearly more of a box-to-box midfielder than a creator like Cabaye and long range passing was often poor and mis-hit. Wijnaldum will take a while to adjust to the PL and he disappears for long spells as the game passes him by and Mbembe is also struggling a bit with the movement of players in the PL, with Gomis leaving him for dead when he beat the Offside trap for their first. Obviously, some of these things will improve as players adjust, but the basic weaknesses in the side are there for all to see and unless this is addressed quickly, we are in for at least half a season of struggle. To say yesterday was disappointing is an understatement and should at least have served to remove the scales from the eyes of the ever over-optimists that form a large part of our support.

..and he'd be quite right - Tiote looked as if he didn't give a stuff last week and in my opinion, we probably lost 2 points after he came on because he just sat back and didn't attempt to pressure Saints m/f or offer an alternative going forward. Needs to be sold.

This...or at least, get a point - cannot see any more points coming in the following 2 games v Man U & Arsenal so vital to pick something up to avoid being dragged down early.

McClaren has a heap of work to do in order to sort the team out. I saw the whole match on TV live and whilst there was an improvement in effort and attempting to play out from the back instead of hoofing it, the problems we knew existed were all too obvious ; Colo caught out several times in the second half and was lucky to get away with it because Southampton should have scored at least twice from this. We need another quick CB. Was satisfied with Mbemba's debut - he IS quick and can play but both he and Colo were struggling against Pelle when balls were played into our box because neither is a tall defender. Wijnaldum had some good contributions and obviously has talent - great running and header for the goal - but seemed to fade as the game went on. Too soon to comment on Mitrovic, didn't have enough time to get into the game but he looks a physical CF although not very quick on first impression...we shall see. Sissoko was the main threat until our m/f was disrupted and Tiote didn't look as if he gave a monkeys....always played a short, safe ball every time he got it and never made much effort to help build attacks....once Long equalized(I dreaded seeing him come on as he has often given Colo a chasing in previous games against us), only one side was going to win if anyone did and it wasn't us... We all know about Obertan - a Curate's Egg, good in parts but ... great run and cross for the goal and at least he tried. Thought Haidara got better as the game went on and his defence work seemed to improve. Colback was the brunt of some grumbles until he redeemed himself with 2 saving late tackles and block - previously he had been slowing attacks and he IS one paced. Loads more, but overall, a reasonable start against a team who won't be push-overs - agree with all those who wanted Obertan off and Aarons on in the second half because we may just have been able to snatch it then. Defence will continue to be a problem with the same personnel in the middle.