merlin

Yep - painful that it happened in the Derby, esp at SJP, but it HAS been coming - did anyone on here seriously believe that we would win after Johnson scored their second..? How many times have we scored 3 goals this seasn and won the match as well..? Pardew's teams are negative and over-cautious....they caught us 3 times on the break but in truth, they were better set-up to win the game. We lack rapid movement when attacking, esp off the ball and that makes it easy for sides to draw us in. The fact that we lost heavily to the Mackems is bad , but the main issue is that Pardew has been found out, well and truly. We are now in a big battle against relegation because if we can get caught on the break like this against our friends' frrom Wearside, think how Liverpool and Arsenal will do with their forwards.... WBA and QPR away our best hope of points.

Tell Dani Alves that. Remind me - where does Alves play again....??

Been expecting that for ages - Cabaye is just the sort of player they need and who will do well there, regardless of what anyone thinks ; he's a class player and I reckon Fergie has wanted him since his goal and performance against them last season at SJP. 20m just the opening shot in this bid, methinks.....

Remind me when we were last in Europe before KK took over in 1992 and we qualified in 1994...? I think you'll find that it was against Bastia in 1977.....17 years....... Prior to that, we had from 1968 to 1970 when we won the tournament. Not exactly a regular competitor until the 90s.

Santon is not a good defender and Haidara looks to be by far the better player in that position. FBs are there to defend, first and foremost and that is how they should be judged before anything else, If they can be a good asset coming forward, great, but Haidara seems to have both requirements and is better at his main job. Whilst he remains in good form I would always pick him before Santon - end of.

What Keegan means is probably that we are a selling club in the sense that we WOULD sell a player who is rated as one of our best - like Cabaye or Krul, for example whereas clubs like Arsenal and the Manchester clubs only sell their top players under real duress, as with RVP last summer. If the right offer came along it is hard to see Ashley resisting a bid for any of our best players and it is hard to see the likes of Cabaye refusing a move to Man U, for example. As long as we are a club that doesn't win trophies we WILL be a selling club along with most of the PL below the Top 6 - top clubs do sell decent players but only when it suits them - not the player or the buying club unless tha player's contract is close to ending and he refuses to stay - like Ba. Its a fact of life in the modern PL.

Comparing Pardew to KK...just don't go there... That WOULD be ridiculous.

Derbies are always hard to predict and as he saying goes, form goes out of the window. This one will be especially tough because they have just got a new manager who seems to specialize in motivation, he has had a full week with them to prepare for the game and to try to improve their fitness which he thinks is below par. They will be desperate for a decent result after losing his first game in charge at Chelsea and we are coming off a tough week with a side who will be jaded. Tiote must come back in because he is fresh and the m/f battle will be intense - Cabaye MUST keep a cool head because if he goes off with a red, we are stuffed. The only thing that can be said with any certainty about this game is that, even more than usual, it will not be for the faint-hearted ; the points are vital to both clubs as well as the bragging rights and the referee will have to be spot-on if trouble is to be avoided. I wouldn't attempt to put a scoreline on it but neutral fans will be licking their lips....those who like steak will be wanting it med-rare before - and after - this match.....!

Tricky season to judge him on, since we have had our best XI in 1 or 2 games (if at all?) We began the season with a seriously under-strength squad which wasn't his fault and by the time he got the players in the season was gone. The new players also didn't have a pre-season yet some expect them to be playing their best football right away. There are so many examples of top players who took a while to get going after a January transfer, yet people blame this all on Pardew "making them worse" which seems equally childish to me. Much of the criticism for our problems should be directed at the board, who completely f*cked up last summer. I think any manager would have struggled to some extent with that squad, with that many fixtures, and that many injuries. Last season was incredible, with a good slice of luck, and that perhaps landed more praise at his door than was due. But this season has gone the other way; much of it has not been his fault, and I'm not sure all of the criticism is deserved. One excellent season and one terrible one. The jury is still out in my mind. Honestly though, changing manager is a major gamble. Could we do better? Yes. Could we do worse? Definitely. There are loads of iffy managers out there like Souness, Allardyce etc who would be lining up for the post. How many in that line would really be able to take us forwards? Keeping in mind they will be working with the same board who in my view are to blame for most of the current mess. Long story short I think he's worth another season based on his track record, but I am not blind to his shortcomings (negative tactics etc). I just don't think sacking him is worth the gamble, having seen some of the managers we've had in the last 10 years. I agree with much of what you say - there is no question that the board failed miserably in not strengthening the side for a tougher campaign last summer. I also agree that Pardew - and the side - had more than their share of luck last season but that doesn't hide the shortcomings in our play that were evident even then. We scraped results in some games where we didn't deserve to and in many cases, it was like watching paint dry as far as entertainment was concerned. Most of us were prepared to cut him spme slack on the grounds that the end justified the means, but this year, there have been examples - Swansea and Southampton among them - of teams who have patently worse squads than ours and yet are performing well and more easily on the eye. This, to me, has highlighted Pardew's limitations as a coach and manager although I accept that we have had a lot of injuries - one has to ask whether these injuries are partly as a result of lack of proper fitness in the players as other teams do not seem to be as badly affected....Di Canio has already said that he considers the Sunderland squad are below-par fitness-wise and this can make a differnence in players being injured. As you say, one good season, one bad, but in the first we had a lot of luck, in the second too many injuries and too few players. Overall though, I look at Pardew's history and it doesn't give me any confidence that he can take the club where it should be, or get us playing attractive football that has more successes than failures. He is NOT a young manager any more, being over 50, so it is hard to see a pattern of success emerging in future years but he suits the board - or HAS done up to now. I also agree that there are bad managers out there, but that is the responsibility of the board to sort out - if they have any sort of acumen they should be able to find out which manager who would take the job has both the past record and the qualities to take the club forward. When Liverpool took on Shankly, they were a second division side in decline - they looked at his record at his previous clubs - and were impressed by his personality and rapport with his previous clubs' fans. They hit the jackpot, but no manager at Newcastle would be allowed the leeway Shankly had at Liverpool, OR the support he got from Peter Robinson, who was way ahead of his time as a CEO/Secretary. Pardew may well survive as manager if we stay up but eventually, this thread will be a hot topic within a few months of next season starting...and then there will be far less choice for the board to pick from if they DO decide to bullet him.

What is ridiculous and childish about the Pardew debate is the fact that some of those who are firmly in his camp start accusing those of us who are not as being 'haters'. This is pathetic nonsense - how can anyone hate a person unless they know them personally and have had bad experiences with them ? I couldn't give a toss about Pardew as a person and don't have any personal feelings towards him one way or the other but I DO care about his performances as manager of NUFC. In that respect, I think he is lacking in the qualities necessary to bring any sort of success - and that especially includes entertaining football - to the club. I believe him to be a lower PL/upper Championship manager who has demonstrated his limitations not just at this club, but at the others where he was employed - that is the ONLY basis on which I judge him and I suspect that most of us who are not fans feel the same way. If the board are happy to see us middle/lower part of the table most years and scraping results through negative football, then he'll stay - whether many fans will put up with that over an extended period is another question... We still need 4 points to be reasonably safe from relegation - if we achieve that it will be interesting to see what happens in the summer both on the transfer front and the manager's position...if we were by any chance to go down, he's out..end of. My ONLY fear about his being sacked is the board's intentions afterwards but I believe that they have done enough in January to allay at least some of the questions a prospective manager would have. They have also given him enough rope to hang himself with the new players...... We shall see, but this thread needs to revert to an adult debate about a serious question.

Fans shouldn't HAVE to accept 'human error' by officials when the technology exists to correct it - I disagree totally with people who make excuses for the powers-that-be not using an official in the stand watching an instant replay of, say, a penalty decision when the ref is already carrying a head set to communicate with his line officlals etc. The amount of time taken to review such a decision these days is minimal and wouldn't affect the flow of a game at all - similarly with goals scored from a disputed off-side decision. This works OK in other sports and there is no reason at all why football shouldn't be dragged into the 21st Century when there is so much money at stake in the modern game and an incorrect decision can mean the loss - or gain - of millions of pounds for a club. How would any of the old traditional defenders of refs decision 'being final' would be just as happy to accept this if NUFC was victim of an incorrect pen decision in the final game of the season which sent the club into the Championship..? Not many, I reckon.....

The club is clearly in a much better financial state than it was under Shepherd and also, better than most PL clubs. Obviously, clubs, like people and businesses, have to live within their means but we will still need clever investment in order to progress. The CL is obviously the holy grail of obtaining a sizeable increase in income which is why the so-called 'Top 4' bust a gut every year in order to stay there, and why clubs like Liverpool and Spurs are trying to oust them...we will need to achieve CL football on a regular basis in order to greatly increase the income but that means heavy investment in the squad. We are not far away from having a side who can challenge for CL places, but there are some critical gaps and we also need, in my view, a better manager and coaching staff. It will be interesting to see whether Ashley is prepared to go the extra mile to boost the club player/manager-wise - if , as is stated, he doesn't want the loan back, maybe he is - we shall see, but it is heartening to see that the owner has stabiilized the club financially and that we are in no financial danger...well done.

I don't know how you can claim the goal was not the result of a scramble - Cabaye's shot deflected off a defender(it was never going to trouble Schwartzer) and luckily, fell to Cisse who did what he is best at in the penalty area - controlled it brilliantly and scored. No way was it like some of the goals Marveaux has conjured up through brilliant passing, we were fortunate although the players earned it by their efforts right into added time. None of this makes me feel any differently about Pardew - we play percentage football when we have players capable of much more and our results over the season reflect our play. Everyone has their view about managers - it just so happens that the likes of Mick, HTT and I differ from yours and some others...that's football.

If it is a case of one or the other, then Mackems - definitely. We NEED to be in the PL and if by beating Sunderland we do it then so be it, even if it would mean going out to Benfica on Thursday....hopefully, if given a better manager, we can qualify for Europe again by the end of next season - there is NO guarantee that relegation would mean we got back into the PL as quickly as we did last time. The club CANNOT afford to go down, and hence, the Mackems game is the more important, by a mile. I would rest ANY player who was not 100% fit against Benfica if I knew they would be fit for next w/e.....

A win which was absolutely vital for the club's survival in the PL and deserved because of the failure of the officials to spot the blatant pen when Rise armed the ball round the post from Gouffran's header. Very very late, but a great time to score and Cisse took the chance brilliantly.....a pity he doesn't get more of them. Delighted for the players who kept going right to the end and persistence paid off, even if there weren't many clear chances created - most of them were basically though scrambles in front of goal although Anita was unlucky with his deflected effort on to the bar. Krul made a season-saving save from Berbatov which could have altered the whole game - he possibly kept the club in the PL with that stop. Together with the mackems going down at Chelsea, this result gives us a vital breathing space....3 points now should keep us up and after QPR dropped late points to Wigan, they are virtually down and only one place is left to fill - win next week and we are almost there. None of this alters my views about the manager, but we need to stay in the PL and I was as pleased as anyone else that we made it.

Good post - none of us want to see NUFC relegated and because of that, the win was vital and necessary. However, like you, my views of Pardew haven't changed and I think he should be replaced in summer provided we can get a better manager - which I believe we can now. As for the genius you quoted on facebook, sadly, NUFC have always had too many fans who are too easily pleased and the board have been very successful at managing down some people's expectations. When you think of SBR and KK managing the club, I am not surprised you despair of people like that..!!

Agreed - basically only one place left now unless either of those 2 put together an unbelievable run. It will be a disgrace if NUFC fills that place after the money spent in Jan...

Did you actually read the post... Actually, where I live IS like a different planet.....all good by me too...!

A very good and sensible post - well done. A pity others cannot take off the blinkers...

And before anyone says anything here, a couple of years ago this was different as it appeared that we were an unattractive club who players didn't want to be 100 miles of with an owner who was unwilling invest/was just going to pocket the cash etc. That simply isn't the case at all now. bit of a way to go before you can call us a club that should be battling for the top 4 every season with the sides all battling for it atm Yeah, because they all have top managers. Chelsea fans would disagree, but they have other advantages Chelsea can buy their way into the top 4, Arsenal are staying in on sheer inertia at this stage, Liverpools history and profile allows them to have an easier job of attracting better players like Suarez to the club who would never come here even if we were in the identical position to Liverpool when trying to sign him from Ajax. Arguably the ones who don't have a significant advantage over us are Everton who can barely be called in the cl race any year but could be said to be challenging for it and they stuck with Moyes even after a relegation battle after a good season and Spurs who have a similar enough methodology to us in how they work but are a few years further down the line. A few years ago they were still challenging for the top 4, as they have been for donkeys because they've had good managers. Moyes is a better manager than Pardew too, just because they stuck with him and it worked doesn't mean it's the same with every manager. It's the same with Fergie "What if Man U sacked him back in 93!" or whenever it was, well yeah, but what if they stuck with Alan Pardew in 93? Also, Moyes was a damn site younger than Pardew is now when Everton stuck with him...he also had very little to spend then and Kenwright admitted that - they knew he was decent because of his past record and they had no alternative. Pardew has had the luxury of millions being spent on the side 3 months ago on order to help him keep us up...we are still threatened by relegation and if he has had injuries, some of this may be down to the players not being properly fit/trained.

We lost 2 days ago. We lost 2 days ago against a very good side, away from home, largely due to individual errors, in the first leg of the QF of a major european competition, whilst creating some very good chances which we were unfortunate not to convert, without a number of important players. I don't see how it's relevant to the "this team should be challenging for 4th and it's all Pardew's fault we're not" argument. So you think we should forget about all the other defeats we have had this season,,? Remind me how many PL away games we have won..??

After yesterday's results, 3 points is a must - anything less will ensure we are genuine relegation candidates. If Villa manage to stay up I reckon that those who were saying Lambert is a rubbish manager will have to eat their words...remind me, how much has he had to spend in January...? Also, Southampton continue to improve beyond all expectation. We can only hope that the Mackems get nothing from Di Canio's first game as manager because 3 points - or even a draw - for them will give them a huge lift before the Derby..... As I said - 3 points a MUST...

When deciding this, the controlling factor is who would take the job ; given a free hand, Mourinho would be the stand-out candidate.....proven record and probably has a soft spot for NUFC because of the time he spent with SBR and knows of Sir Bobby's obvious affection for the club - he knows what could be achieved.... In the real world, Mourinho would be a non-starter because he has the choice of clubs who would spend far more than Ashley and Co over a long period and he knows that he would be given more control of the budget. Ashley wouldn't meet his wage demands under any circumstances.... I would back Mick's choice of Laudrup but I think that the compensation package Swansea would demand rules him out for obvious reasons - otherwise I reckon he would be a good choice given his age and record at a smaller club. He will be in demand by other top clubs in summer. Martinez has blotted his copybook big time after his ludicrous defence of McManaman's tackle on Haidara - trying to pour oil on waters is one thing, lying is another..also, the history between Whelan and Ashley would make this an expensive and difficult appointment - no problem with Martinez' style of play or keeping Wigan in the PL which is like getting NUFC into a EL spot...he's done it more than once, too. Of all the names on the list, Moyes would be the one I would try for - not too expensive to sign, proven record at Everton despite very tight finances and undoubtedly ready for a move now. Even getting Moyes would be far from easy as there will be competition from other clubs - he could also be a dark horse for replacing Fergie at Man U as Ferguson holds him in high regard and Man U have a history of choosing slightly unfancied candidates as manager. An outside choice for me would be Guus Hiddink - top class manager who has managed all over the world, mostly successfully and can get the best out of his players...unlike the current incumbent..! Would be short-term because of his age, but may get us into a trophy-winning situation before he left and that would make it easier to get a good younger manager to replace him. This afternoon's result/performance will tell us whether this thread will be on-going......

That would depend on who he was replaced with but carry on being daft in an attempt to justify Pardew by making it look as if people only want shot of him because of 3 or 4 defeats. Nobody - certainly not me - wanted KK out when he came back in 2008 and we struggled in his first 8 games. We could see what he was trying to get the players to do, and it eventually came good...Pardew has been here for more than 2 years - can anyone see a similar effective and attractive style of play emerging under him...?? If a new manager was showing steady improvement NOBODY would want him out in his first season even if results weren't too great and this squad is capable of MUCH better football than we are seeing now. Too many players under-achieveing under this regime.

The thing is, nobody is right or wrong. It will not change how bad this season has been if we do well next season and last season will not become worse than it was because of this season. Is he a good manager or a one season wonder? Some think he's a good manager based on one season while others think he's a poor manager based on what he’s done here and most of his managerial career which has been more lows than highs. Personally, I've seen very little during his time here to think he can do anything more than stagnate and fluke the odd decent result/league finish. We simply haven’t progressed as a team under him other than our league position last year which was more often than not based on some negative football and tactics. I know this has been done to death but it shouldn’t be forgotten. He spends 4 out of 5 days coaching the team to defend and we’re about as bad as it gets in this division, even if somebody on here tries to disregard some goals conceded. Our defence includes an international keeper, an international left back, an international right back and two international centre backs if fit and played together. Our midfield can contain 5 international players and our main forward plays for his country. I see no reason to believe that a team which can contain 11 internationals aren’t better than what we’ve seen this season and I’ve seen nothing to make me believe that our manager is playing the type of football that best suits our players. I don’t think we have a single player who thrives with us sitting back as often as we do and I can only put that down to Pardew. I would guess that our lowest international player count this season doesn’t go below 50% yet teams who would struggle to field that many on a good day are doing better than we are. I’m sick of the excuses that he and others come out with on his behalf. We aren’t a team that should be looking to scrape enough points to stay in the division with 7 games remaining and it’s a massive waste of the players in our squad. What is our playing style? Do we have anything as a team that anybody could call a strength? I’d fail to answer either of those questions and he’s been here for something like 2 ½ seasons and that’s p*ss poor. I don’t see anything to suggest that he’s going to change, he’s got a personal comfort zone and he’ll stick to it because it’s all that he knows and that’s a problem because his idea of how football should be played doesn’t match what our players are good at or comfortable with. He’ll dabble from time to time and it will fail more often than not because the players aren’t used to it under him as we don’t seem to work on it. If we’re going to do well on a constant basis then he’s going to have to change and I’m not sure that he’s capable or comfortable enough to see it through. If he’s going to change then it will have to be what we work on at the start of the season and we would have to stick with it. Again, I can’t see any evidence of that being likely to happen and for that reason I will see next season as more than likely being another wasted season if he's still at the club. The excuses used this season by Mr Negativity just don’t add up. The reasons he uses for excuses aren’t enough for a 5th placed team to become a 15th placed team yet some are falling for it. If people want to fall for the s*** he comes out with then so be it, ignorance can be bliss but it will not change where we are and how poorly we’ve played. If people think he’s the right manager for us, why? What makes him right for us? Don’t use the shitty argument that we can’t do better than him because that’s bollocks. The argument that he’s going to suddenly have us playing free flowing attacking football is pie in the sky and baseless. This is a great post Mick - sums up everything I feel about Pardew as a manager. I just cannot believe that some people think he's suddenly going to turn into SAF because he had one successful season...and as you say, the football was often awful and we rode our luck spectacularly...we also got lucky with Cisse who almost single-handedly got us into the EL with his goals. As I have said before, I was prepared to give him a chance when he arrived at SJP but I had major reservations about his past record, and I know that former senior members of the club were warned that he would perform exactly as he has, by some of his former employers. He has shown absolutely NOTHING in either the team tactics and now, frighteningly, in his player motivation, to give anyone confidence that he will improve things, even with a much better squad than we had last season. The number of silly statements he comes out with merely make matters worse and Benfica rammed some of those right back down his throat. As for people quoting Moyes, Kenwright had to stick with him because Everton were much poorer as a club then than we are now - Moyes NEVER had millions thrown at him in his second full season as Pardew has here. Moyes also had a decent record at PNE before he joined Everton and was a younger manager - there is no comparison in the 2 situations.