merlin

This was just not good enough - Wigan murdered us down the left, with N'Zog making Perch look a very poor fullback ; in addition even Williamson was left floundering by his jump for the first goal...Zog is hardly the tallest of players, but he DOES have genuine pace, which no NUFC forward has. As is usual, there was lots of attempted attacks down our left with Jonas and Enrique trying to play their 2-man band football - Wigan(and other teams will also have cottoned on to this)simply put extra men on that side and snuffed them out ; they were able to do this because they knew we have no attacking strength down our right, where Guthrie constantly drifted inside(and was ineffective anyway)and Perch was terrified of being caught upfield in case Zog left him for dead. Wigan were far more threatening in the first half(as were Blackpool when we played them at SJP)and deserved their lead - overall, they deserved the points but at least the team kept going and it paid off for Colo. Agree with Martinez' comment that he couldn't see us scoring from open play, and this has been the same in many games and I do not accept the theory that we are creating good chances, because we aren't.Only the cross from Jonas, met by Carroll and saved, looked like going in Difficult to see what can be done, but the team's performances are beginning to make the likes of WBA look like genuine PL sides(look at their results AND, more importantly, the performances)whilst we look increasingly like a relegation side...concede simple goals and fail to create good chances means relegation. HBA's injury has possibly tipped the club into a genuine relegation scrap because he is the one forward with real skill and a turn of pace. The next 2 games are even more crucial now and a defeat at home to the Mackems will have the alarm bells ringing right through the club...from top to bottom.

I don't see how accepting two defeats at home to relegation candidates can be labelled as being realistic unless you expect to go straight back down. Exactly --- what is the game all about...being 'realistic' about defeats at home to poor teams ?

Beating Blackpool rather than Villa would have given us a better chance of avoiding the bottom three though. This - and that's the point...

The players can be as determined as they like, but if they can't win home games they are not good enough - determination is great but without the necessary skills it is useless. Cream always rises to the top....

Defeats against Wigan and the Mackems will put the pressure on big-time...if it hadn't been for the fact that Ashley is unwilling to spend decent money, the results at home against Blackpool and Stoke would themselves have place any manager under some pressure. Only Ashley's knowledge that he will have great difficulty in getting a decent replacement will keep Hughton in a job beyond November if we lose the next 2 home games.

A certain A.Shearer was being capped at 21....

Hodgson might just be in the same position as Allardyce was when Ashley took over - newly appointed by previous board and therefore, the new boss either has to see what he can do or fire him straight away and bring his own man in...Ashley did the former and look what happened... Funnily enough I believe Hodgson would do better than Fat Sam if the new owners give him money to spend, but he may have to have a clear-out first... If I HAD to put money down on it, I would back MON for the Liverpool job eventually.

Would we like to stadium share with the Mackems in Washington or Gateshead..!??

Exactly right.

Not true - they were in a worse state than NUFC when Shankly arrived there and he built a great club from nothing..we had every chance to do the same but we had an unambitious board. That is why they became a top European side and we staggered from crisis to crisis until we had some years of stability under SJH and KK, but it didn't last. Even when Shankly retired, he had left in place a system which ensured continuity and the board were sensible enough to keep that going. Good luck to them - if we had been as well-run over the years, we too may have secured a decent buyer when Ashley tried to sell. The only thing I resent is that they DO get a lot of media favour but then, that is what other teams' fans accused US of in the 90s...

Right with the first comment, wrong with the second(unless Dalglish is there temporarily)...my money is on MON and I wouldn't be surprised if he has already been spoken to on the QT..

You're actually trying to talk to someone about their expectation levels & you're moaning about us not creating many chances against a stoke side who had the 5th most clean sheets in premier league last season while we stand as a side who have just been promoted. Ofcourse thats irrelevant because theyre not Inter Milan, brilliant. Then bringing up nonsense about how we'd have done in the mid 90's in another post completely bizarre illogical waffling. Man city, Stoke & Everton actually have three very good defences believe it or not. Us not creating loads in our position really shouldnt be that suprising. We created more than enough against Blackpool & Wolves and should have won both games. Its more suprising that we were the first side to score a decent goal against Man city in the prem all season, with them having just played Chelsea. Stop the overly negative whining. When I have to take advice from the likes of air-heads such as you I will start to get worried. Go back to the Fairy Land you usually inhabit because I have no time for you - I will not answer any more of your brainless posts. As for the 90s, you were only a kid...have you grown up yet ?

They usualy classes as "shots blocked". They are on the SS website anyway. Well done - does that mean 'NEARLY a goal, VERY nearly a goal, or just that the person making the shot was too slow to get past the defender...!? Lies, Damned lies - then Statisitics ; Stoke - we LOST, Blackpool, LOST, Man C LOST - those are the facts,nothing will change them.

IF you wish to stay in the PL, the answer is YES, you DO have to create ENOUGH chances against all but the best sides - we are NOT. You may think Stoke are the UK answer to Catenaccio but I don't ; they are a physical side who we would have blown away in the mid-90s. Are you a spin doctor? ------ and what the hell has that got to do with anything? You really are struggling now, aren't you ? A Spin Doctor ? On what planet do you live ? Spin Doctors are people employed by New Labour ; I thought this was a football forum.....do you know what Catenaccio is(or was ?), Probably not because you are too young, but it was the art of defensive football perfected by Inter Milan in the 60's/70s- believe me, Stoke are NO Inter and if you can't see that instead of bigging them up to be a team we should be glad to squeeze a narrow defeat from, then its no wonder that people think the fans of this club are easily conned - you bring low expectation down to a new level - congratulations !

So you think we're 75% likely to go down... three times as likely as we are to stay up? Seems pretty harsh based on performances and points so far. /quote] Made the decision before we signed HBA and Tiote - decided to stick with it and our results against Blackpool and Stoke at SJP have not convinced me to change it.WBA are playing at least as well as us and getting some decent results - ditto Blackpool although I think they will drop away. We are not making good chances - I have said why I think that is so on other threads..if we fail to do that we will go down - simple as.

I said I would make my mind up about the club's prospects by November and I stick to that. However, it is patently obvious that goals are going to be difficult to come by and that has been exacerbated by HBA's injury. Cannot see much money being spent in Jan unless Ashley has lost patience with Hughton by then, so the lack of goals is a problem. Unlike the blind optimists on here, I do NOT believe we are creating clear chances ; the opposition defence has far too much time to get organised during our attacks because the build up is too slow - we lack a player who can deliver a penetrating final pass, and a forward with enough speed off the mark to use it. Unless the style of play is adjusted to get the opposition retreating QUICKLY, we will struggle to score. Goals win you matches, and you have to score more than the opposition - simple as... All the pretty football and possession is useless unless you turn it into goals...sound simple, but some people seem to have difficulty getting their heads round that fact..! These people will still be saying we didn't deserve relegation if we go down because we haven't converted possession into goals, and they are WRONG - if we fail to do that we WILL deserve to go down.

How many saves from direct shots can you remember opposition keepers making in the past 3 PL games ? 4 on target v City (1 less than city) 7 on target v Stoke (more than stoke) 4 on target v Everton (more than Everton) I ask again - how many SAVES did we force their keeper to make ? Come on, stop hiding behind make-believe stats that can be made to prove anything. I cannot recall the Stoke keeper having to make more than 2 serious saves in the game - EXCLUDING the pen.How many saves did Everton's keeper make? Statistics could, if wanted, prove that a clearance by Krul was an 'attempt' on goal - doesn't mean he has a cat in hell's chance of scoring, does it? Unless we are forcing opposition keepers to save shots, we are NOT threatening their goal - defenders are there to block goal attempts, goal keepers are the last line. If you believe these stats, can you pls list the saves made by the keepers - and from whom - in the games you have listed ? Surely you're not that stupid. Shots on target - number of goals scored = number of saves Can you read ? I asked you to name the player who had the shots saved...what does 'number of goals scored; have to do with anything ? We scored ONE against Everton, ONE against Stoke(a pen) and ONE against City...how is this related to SAVES by opposition keepers ?

IF you wish to stay in the PL, the answer is YES, you DO have to create ENOUGH chances against all but the best sides - we are NOT. You may think Stoke are the UK answer to Catenaccio but I don't ; they are a physical side who we would have blown away in the mid-90s.

How many saves from direct shots can you remember opposition keepers making in the past 3 PL games ? 4 on target v City (1 less than city) 7 on target v Stoke (more than stoke) 4 on target v Everton (more than Everton) I ask again - how many SAVES did we force their keeper to make ? Come on, stop hiding behind make-believe stats that can be made to prove anything. I cannot recall the Stoke keeper having to make more than 2 serious saves in the game - EXCLUDING the pen.How many saves did Everton's keeper make? Statistics could, if wanted, prove that a clearance by Krul was an 'attempt' on goal - doesn't mean he has a cat in hell's chance of scoring, does it? Unless we are forcing opposition keepers to save shots, we are NOT threatening their goal - defenders are there to block goal attempts, goal keepers are the last line. If you believe these stats, can you pls list the saves made by the keepers - and from whom - in the games you have listed ?

Tiote is the best m/f player at the club - he is the main reason we are getting lots of play between defence and the opposition pen area...that is where it all goes wrong. None of this is his fault - he is there to win the ball and set up the forward movement ; his compatriots, Barton and Nolan are the reason it all falls down, as well as poor movement and lack of support up front.

Still sticking to my 7.5....will re-address after the Wigan and Mackem games..

This - it will be our undoing.

This is a must win situation. Even a draw would feel like a defeat and would leave massive doubts in the minds of both players and fans. We may have been conned by the Ref yesterday, but I do not subscribe to the 'we are making chances' brigade, because we are NOT...if anyone doubts this, just try to remember how many times we have forced opposition keepers into brilliant reflex saves, or how many shots we have had cleared off the opposition's goal line. I think you'll be struggling with that one.... Failure to beat Wigan at SJP WILL establish the club as a relegation candidate and if we then lose to the Mackems, I can see real problems ahead for the club, especially if the other promoted sides are doing OK. Ashley will start getting very twitchy indeed.....

...he says seven games into the season. I know, I know. It's just that West Brom and Blackpool are both improving if anything! They're not achieving their success via corny/brutish tactics either. They're also not overly reliant on any single player. I believe both will consistently get results. Certainly a possibility with WBA - they have a decent manager and have signed players which make them a better unit all round. Have some reservations about Blackpool, but if they are still getting results in a month's time, it is a cause for concern.

How many saves from direct shots can you remember opposition keepers making in the past 3 PL games ?