merlin

True - but the reason that crosses are not coming into Carroll(I mean from the bye-line and NOT thumped in from halfway between Pen area and HW line..!) is because the wingers/fullbacks are not getting past the last defender and pulling the ball back. Unless you do this, a player like Carroll is totally wasted. Can see him leaving if he keeps getting lousy service and his head will go down. Routledge was lousy yesterday and although Jonas is best at getting to the line, he can't cross very well. We lack real quality in one or two crucial positions.

It wasn't a problem for Bolton - they let him go...to us..!

Maybe that's why he's been to so many clubs and they've all given up on him - the PL ones anyway.. You cannot afford luxury players in the PL unless you have a really good side.

Not a bad line-up at all...

Striker. It is Nolan's job to support our striker, not Barton's. Yes it is - if you persist in playing ONE man up front in a home game, BOTH attacking midfielders are responsible for supporting the striker...and Nolan doesn't do it anyway. I think Barton is not properly fit.

Taking off a defensive player and leaving on an offensive player when we need a goal. Shocking that like. Tiote's not a defensive player from what I've seen so far though, he wins it but also drives us forward (far more than the insipid Barton who is trying to perfect the Nicky Butt aimless chip into the corner). Tiote was absolutely bossing the central midfield imo. Barton was better than Tiote today. Barton's passing was nearly perfect for the whole game. u watching another game? he had a few great hollywood passes but his crossing corners and freekicks was horrible f***ing horrible. his second half perfomance was piss poor, and this is coming from a barton fan. I've said that before, they took him out of the game in the 2nd half near perfectly because he was running the show in the 1st half. I can't remember doing Tiote anything what was really countable today. CH had some tough choices today in a very tight match in which although we dominated posession, we very rarely gave Stoke serious problems even in the first half ( i think only 2 shots on target was the stat iirc). There was something missing from the players (perhaps the ususal suspects) in the second half and Nolan alwaus looks knackered to me after 60 odd mins. Chris has got a lot right over the last couple of weeks and I don't really want to have rip into him at all. But...I would question taking off Hba who kept their whole right side pinned back in fear and not taking Nolan off for Shola. Bringing Shola on for Tiote was a gamble cause he was our only real protection against a big phyiscal side. Once he came off they cruised throught the middle at will. Anywat the team is still developing and there will be close games where we win. Team still developing? We have only made 2 changes since last season and apart from Carroll, NONE of them are exactly youngsters are they..? Simple fact is we do NOT have enough quality in crucial positions and the manager is reluctant to drop Nolan.

Couldn't agree more. We were never going to beat Stoke by getting in a battle with them. We should have hit their lumbering defenders with speed and skill, HBA had plenty of joy in the first half had anyone had the wit or movement to make the most of it. I like Hughton but he needs to show a bit more faith in his football principles instead of trying to shoehorn all his favourite characters into the team and playing safe. All true - agree about Barton too, because playing a 4-5-1, esp at home, puts huge responsibility on ALL the midfield players to support the CF ; esp when he's having a tough day as was Carroll. Main problem is we haven't got enough pace on the flanks - Gutierrez and Enrique are a better pairing there than Jose and HBA. HBA needs to play in Nolan's position with Guti on the flank. You then have the problem of Guti's poor crossing and final pass...... As was said before the season , we are short of a couple of players - a striker and a creative midfielder who can put accurate passes through a tall massed defence. You made some good points but can't agree with the part of the creative midfielder. We have one already and probably one of the best in the league, it's just that a) Hughton is blind and can't seem to drop Nolan and let that creative midfielder play where he is supposed to and ii) even when he did roam to the middle to try and influence the game more, there were absolutely no movement upfront...nobody was making any runs at all! HBA got frustrated being stuck on the lef that he was going inside and even to the right to try and make something, but that inevitable meant that we lost our shape. If Hughton only had the balls to drop Nolan, that would solve quite a few problems. a) HBA would be more influential and he can be given the freedom to play across the park and b) with Jonas on the left, we would not be losing our shape that often with the added bonus of getting back the Enrique + Jonas combo. The only downside I see is that with Jonas on the left, yes we would have to endure some of his s*** crosses, but that would be more movement and I quite fancy Jonas and HBA combining well with short and run passes. I made that point in my post on the match summary thread - trouble is, that if Hughton WON'T drop Nolan or take him off when he should, we are going to lose matches....and Hughton will eventually lose his job.

tbh this is the first game where we've struggled to make chances and thats down to the way stoke play i think, vs blackpool it was the finishing and their keeper that kept us from scoring rather than lack of chances Not true - how many chances did we create at Everton apart from HBA's wonder strike ? And as for Blackpool, most of the saves by their keeper were a result of defender errors rather than excellent clear-cut chances created by us. It doesn't matter HOW much of the play you have, you are never going to get goals unless you create CLEAR chances...and apart from the Villa and Wolves games in the Pl, we have not created anywhere near enough ; this is mainly because the wingers are not good enough to get past the final defender. You can't say 'that is down to how Stoke play' either, because the job of an opposing team is to get a result ; the home side has the responsibility to entertain and win the match.

Just as after Blackpool, perhaps ..?

Tony Pulis took all the honours yesterday - he got it right with his tactics and subs whereas Hughton did not. Not totally as simple as that, but a worrying pattern is developing in home games now - we are controlling large parts of the game but failing totally to create any REAL chances. If Huth's clumsy foul on Carroll had taken place at the Britannia Stadium, we almost certainly would not have got the pen - def not if it had been at OT or Emirates, so we got lucky with the award anyway. Apart from that, only a cross-cum-shot from Enrique and two missed free kicks from HBA looked like causing Stoke any trouble. We dominated MF in First H, but it petered out near their box because we WEREN'T GETTING PAST THEIR FINAL DEFENDER on the flanks ; do that often enough and even the best organised side will crack. Why did this not happen ? 1. Routledge didn't do the business on the right 2. HBA didn't do the business on the left - his link with Enrique is nowhere near as productive as Jose with Jonas but then Jonas can't cross or make a good final pass.... Barton was playing too deep, that is Tiote's job - Barton should be getting into position to support Carroll as should Nolan(nothing further needs to be said about THAT..!), but he is not quick enough...I still think he has a fitness problem because he fades as the game goes on. Many of his passes are sideways, not enough forward and to be fair, Carroll has far too much to do against a massed defence to keep the ball when its played up to him. We needed a second striker brought in and we still do - 4-5-1 is poor at home unless you have really quick and dangerous MF players, such as Rob Lee. The lack of a decent quick forward plus the absence of a quick, accurate attacking midfielder is costing us as I thought it might before the season started. HBA might fill the latter role, but only if he plays in Nolan's position, and we all know that is going to be a problem for Hughton....it may turn out to be a final one if he leaves it too late to act. I won't say Stoke were deserved winners because they didn't create much in the first half and they got lucky with Perch's OG although the lad had to go for that ball played in. We didn't create enough chances to win the game and the only threat to them in 2nd half was a shot from, ironically enough, Perch. Very, very disappointing result and also worrying because of lack of clear chances - cannot recall more than one occasion when their keeper had to make a decent save. If this pattern continues in home games we are going to start struggling - just because we beat Villa 6-0 in the first match does not mean we have cracked it..look at WBA, they had a poor start but are now doing OK. Winning the CCC last season does not guarantee our survival.

Couldn't agree more. We were never going to beat Stoke by getting in a battle with them. We should have hit their lumbering defenders with speed and skill, HBA had plenty of joy in the first half had anyone had the wit or movement to make the most of it. I like Hughton but he needs to show a bit more faith in his football principles instead of trying to shoehorn all his favourite characters into the team and playing safe. All true - agree about Barton too, because playing a 4-5-1, esp at home, puts huge responsibility on ALL the midfield players to support the CF ; esp when he's having a tough day as was Carroll. Main problem is we haven't got enough pace on the flanks - Gutierrez and Enrique are a better pairing there than Jose and HBA. HBA needs to play in Nolan's position with Guti on the flank. You then have the problem of Guti's poor crossing and final pass...... As was said before the season , we are short of a couple of players - a striker and a creative midfielder who can put accurate passes through a tall massed defence.

This - Nolan did nowt apart from the pen and a poor miss 2nd half and its obvious Hughton won't drop him. Even if he did we have very little option to replace...

This - Perch was unlucky with the OG, he HAD to go for the ball...blame Tony Pulis and Stoke for being so unsporting and exploiting our weaknesses under physical pressure..!

All part of Murdoch's bid to charge for everything - so far, his attempt to get newspapers on line to bill people who log in has fallen flat ; hits on the Times and NOTW sites are through the floor since they charged for access. All that has happened is that people who read the Times have gone to the DT and the Ad revenue has fallen by 50%... Couldn't happen to a nicer Father.Son combination...!

This - as someone said, the Media love them(many scousers work in broadcasting)and in PL terms they are, like the big banks, viewed as 'too big to fail'...they are also part of the grand EU - sorry, I mean UEFA - group of supposed 'Top' Clubs so authorities will bend over backwards to keep them going. And I mean - EVERYTHING....!

Whatever anyone's views about our dear friends on Wearside, you have to give credit where its due. They kept going against Arsenal and got a result, even though the officials were clearly at fault in allowing the game to go beyond its true time scale ; teams can only do their best to get results, and officials adding time on is not the players' faults. They got a good result at Liverpool yesterday even after a highly controversial Kuyt goal put the Merseysiders in front - Bent scored two goals, and he is doing well for them ; he would have been an asset at SJP... It will be very interesting when we play them and this is probably one of the most even Derbies for years ; it could go either way.

After yesterday's results, esp WBA winning at the Emirates, we need to win this match. West Ham also won and we need to keep picking up the points esp at SJP where, if we lose today, other sides will perceive a weakness in our home tactics. Always a tough game physically, the team need to impose itself on Stoke early, both to keep the fans happy and to prevent the visitors' confidence from growing. I will be delighted with any sort of win, but a defeat would be a disaster from the point of view of confidence among both players and fans...we do NOT need a situation where SJP becomes a liability rather than an asset....

Gazza was the best young player I've ever seen ; when he was 17, JC gave him his debut against Spurs and he straight away forced their keeper into a great save from a direct free kick, bent round the wall. He had been part of our FA Youth Cup winning side that year(1985), the first time we won the trophy since 1962 when Bob Moncur and David Craig were in the team. His cockiness and ability on the ball were obvious from day one and he went on to being a great player. He was miles better than Beckham because he had everything - except a steady brain..! Had he been under the control of Fergie or Cloughie instead of Venables, I reckon he would have been the best England player for generations. Like many ultra-talented players(Best etc), he never really made the best of his career and was haunted by drink and a bad marriage and those things jaundiced people's opinion of him. The tackle he made on that Forest player in the FA Cup Final took the edge off his game after he tore his cruciate ligament. I wish him well in his latest venture - he had no malice about him and as SBR said, he was just 'as daft as a brush..' Sadly, one cannot imagine him living to a ripe old age but he was a great talent who will always be remembered fondly on Tyneside.

Ref's will start looking for it if they are seeing it highlighted on TV. As I've said before, I totally agree..I think the reason he hasn't been SEEN to do it before is that he was up against a tricky AND physical forward in the Everton game. He MAY be OK against less skilled but large forwards and Sunday should tell us. Mick is right about officials though, and when we play top 4 sides(who always get an easier ride from refs)they will be looking for this. Either way, he has to learn to avoid holding if poss.

You guys are being starved - we have seen the lot here in Oz, even the LC game at Chelsea AND the Stoke game is televised by Foxsport on Sunday night,,,,

Must add ; MILNER...I was right about him and I could see why KK walked when they sold him and didn't bring in a quality replacement...I reckon he would have done really well at SJP if KK hadn't walked and they had kept him. We would have been 25m richer by now !!

1st Season Perhaps we came close If he hadn't been injured for several weeks, we might well have won the PL, but the main problem was that parts of the side were needing replacement and KK walked after Christmas.

Of current side; Carroll - RIGHT, I knew he had something when he scored that goal against Stoke Coloccini - WRONG(maybe..!), thought he would never adjust to the PL ; so far he has done well this season ; hope he can keep it up.. Williamson - NOT DECIDED ; he worries me with his tendency to hold/grapple with forwards in the box, but otherwise quite steady. Enrique - RIGHT; was convinced from the start he would make it Lovenkrands - RIGHT, thought he would be lightweight and is. HBA and Tiote ; Looks good, think they will make it. In the past; Supermac - RIGHT, thought he would be sensational after seeing him play for Luton and was even better than I thought. Keeley - WRONG, though he had all the attributes, but he was dire Tomasson - RIGHT AND WRONG ; thought he would be good and was - but NOT at SJP through factors outside his control.. Far too many others, but a mix of right & wrong.

Shame for Steve Harper after his long wait to get the first-team jersey ; he's a good keeper, under-rated by many and its no coincidence that we have done OK with him between the sticks. Krul DOES need experience though and his uncertainty with crosses etc will hopefully be improved by his coming stint in the side. Wish Harper all the best...

Why? Because Williamson is a penalty waiting to happen most of the time, Sol gives us more from a leadership point of view. Thought Sol and Colo together last night, looked pretty good. Williamson has been a steady eddy so far, but just think he's gonna get called for the holding he does constantly at some point. He reminds me a bit of Bassong who did very well for us but was always a little borderline. If he stay of the right side of the line he looks good but wouldn't take much to push him over. Agree with comments about Williamson - made the same point after the Everton game because he DOES hold players in the pen area and soon refs are going to be telling linesmen to watch for it - they will also be looking out for it too and we WILL concede pens that way.