merlin

Hughton's comments are very likely to return to haunt him later in the season....

Nailed it. Not sure he has tbh Every team outside the top 5 has to feed off the scraps they dont want. They have not covered themselves in glory over the last 4-5 years with there transfer dealings. In fact i cannot think of one player who they havnt paid well over market price for, who has set the place alight. We have to go for wild cards like Ben Arfa. He could well turn out to be the new Ginola or Robert just as much as he can be the alternative. Your pessimism, and old-school attitude also contributes to the mediocrity we, as fans, settle for. 'Old school attitude..' !? What planet are you on ? Wherever it is, I hope Newcastle United are being the successful club you seem to believe they are ...and as for teams outside the Top 5, how many have the support that NUFC has ? Methinks you are conveniently forgetting a few facts - NUFC HAS punched below its weight, and living in a fools' paradise will not alter those facts ; we should NOT have been outside the Top 5 after the base KK and SJH set up in the 90s. If you believe my comments are pessimism, perhaps you will put an alternative 'Optimists' view ? And as for being another Ginola or Robert, how do those players compare to Ben Arfa except on perhaps playing position ? If Marseilles want him out of the door, its a sure bet that they don't want him at their club.

Both kept under lock and key for the majority of the time because they were controlled by great managers. Keane NEVER stepped out of line at Forest because he feared Clough - and rightly so. Clough was once asked if he had chinned Keane and he said 'No - he wouldn't have got back up if I had..!' Cantona was hardly a wild card outside the club in the way that the likes of Dyer & Co have been - he was simply a bit of a strange guy.

Dave, I know blind optimism can be irritating. But you must surely be THE most pessimistic person on this entire board Haha, not really. Like you I'm just expecting nothing. I've been the same with NUFC for as long as I can remember. Hope for the best, expect the worst. You can't blame ANYONE for being pessimistic where NUFC are concerned - those of us who have been following the club long before many on here were born have seen it lurch from disaster to disaster with only a small period where it looked as if the club might eventually punch its weight....the only meaningful silverware coming over 40 years ago. The tone of many contributors to this site show that quite a number of fans have accepted the club as second rate although they won't actually come out and say it ; the fact is that the club IS second rate at best and likely to remain that way for the foreseeable future. We had our chance to join the big boys back in the mid 90s and fluffed it ; we then compounded that by committing suicide in the way the club was run after SJH left as Chairman and by appointing a succession of bad managers after SBR. Even under Sir Bobby, we were never the power we had been in the mid 90s - the fact that we never really looked like challenging for the title tells you that. Once the NOTW broke the scandal involving DSH and FS, we were targeted by the sports media as potential figures of fun ; something that created much resentment among other teams' fans who took great delight in seeing our self-inflicted downfall. A`place in the PL is the LEAST a club of Newcastle's size should be expecting and the fact that we are far more likely to be relegation candidates than in the top half shows how far the club have fallen ; what is more, unless progress is made it will be increasingly-difficult to sign the quality players needed to make the side better, hence Hughton having to look for bargains in the lower leagues or abroad. All the talk about players like Ben Arfur fails to conceal the fact that top clubs do not want him because of his character - successful clubs NEVER build teams around players who are controversial on or off the field and NUFC has had far too many of those in its history..... It takes years to build a successful side/club, and we will need much time and probably a change of ownership in the medium term to get anywhere near doing that - Ashley is probably the best NUFC can expect in the current climate and at least he is keeping the club away from major financial problems which plague many PL clubs. It just means some(MORE)years of putting up with mediocrity, and fans like Dave know that.

It's certainly in our interests to sign Cleverley, for those kinds of reasons. But Gosling isn't out for the season, and so I wonder whether Cleverley and Man U may now have better options ie somewhere he's needed more. Natural pessimist me, though. Know what you are saying but with injuries like Goslings there will be a easing in period too so Cleverley should get nigh on 3/4 of the season ahead of him. Plus they are different players and Cleverley will offer a lot more in attacking situations from what i have seen which is what we need more. I can see Cleverley getting well over 30 appearances which is exactly what Fergie will want for him. Dont see any problem with this idea as its win-win for everyone. http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/sport/newcastle-utd/2010/07/25/nufc-in-four-way-fight-for-young-tom-cleverley-79310-26924469/ Might be speculation on the Sun's part, but they're saying that Ferguson is asking for assurances that Cleverley will feature regularly in the first team, which is fair enough, and that may cause us to lose out. Which would be a shame. Tbh I've got my doubts about Routledge having an impact in the Premiership, despite his playing a big part in the final promotion push. Playing with two out and out wingers is also a bit risky at this level, for us. I know we're probably only talking about a one season loan, but I'd really try and find room for Cleverley. But here is the stumbling block this bit innit But Newcastle boss Chris Hughton is considering other options while chewing over Red Devils counterpart Sir Alex Fergusons insistence that Cleverley be guaranteed a regular starting place this season. To be fair you can see fergies point, the lad needs to be playing week in week out. I'm prety sure he would start each week anyway but just tell fergie that either way and f we try him and he isn't good enough yet we'll have broken the terms of his loan when he's dropped and he can go back. Don't blame Fergie for wanting some assurances about Cleverly, esp after what happened with Rossi's loan period. Ferguson is too professional a manager to want assurances that Cleverly will start every game because HE wouldn't give those assurances to anyone himself, but he is right to expect the lad to be given a regular place on merit ; Cleverly's record whilst with Watford indicates that he WILL do the business and I sincerely hope we don't lose out on this player simply because Hughton is afraid of upsetting members of the group that seemed to be acting as go-betweens with him and the rest of the players last season. NOBODY should be guaranteed a permanent place unless their form merits it - that includes Cleverly, but also EVERYONE ELSE at the club. If the Sunday Sun is correct in its assertion that Cleverly favours a move to SJP, then that surely is a good sign of the player's commitment to the cause.

Quite possible.

This - people arguing about the merits of Best and Lovenkrands are living in cuckoo land - neither are, or will prove to be , adequate for the Prem, and whilst he has time and some things going for him, the jury is still out on Carroll ; we won't know how effective he will be until midway through the season but I would put more money on him succeeding than the other 2 - and 'succeeding' means getting into double figures over the season...

I hope this Cleverly deal goes ahead - a good young player who will boost the attacking options of the midfield. We will have done well if we get him because Man U also have less cash this year than is the general rule, so in view of Fergie's high opinion of him, it would seem he might be doing us a favour. We'll see....

We don't have Man U's spending power - even though that has been cut back ; we also don't have the same spending power as we did when KK was manager in the 90's. We ALL want winning/attacking football, but we haven't the means to buy it so we have to produce it locally - an that will take time and shrewd buying. While it's true we can't compete with the teams getting regular champions league football and those with rich sugar daddies, we have (or should have) a bigger advantage over the majority of other clubs in this league than we did back then, thanks to a built up fanbase and a larger stadium. Where does the idea we're suddenly paupers and should accept it come from? Because 1) the stadium capacity/fan base will only become an advantage once FIFA/UEFA bring in rules that force clubs to run on at least a break-even basis 2) Regardless of how much money is raised through STs, Merchandise sales etc., the buying policy is dictated by the owner and Ashley is clearly NOT going to allow large transfer budgets OR big wages. In the a/m circumstances, the manager has no alternative but to look for bargains and concentrate on the Youth policy. In any case, unless CL football is achieved, NUFC will NEVER be able to compete at the top level and fans will have to be satisfied with a constant battle to retain PL status and poss the odd cup run. Several thousand more fans at SJP will not make us better than other similar clubs - if that were the only criteria, we should be better than Everton and Spurs, but it will take years before we are anything like as good on the park. The club's location in the NE is also a handicap when competing for decent players within the price range unless they have a local connection.. Do you see anything different to this happening ?

We don't have Man U's spending power - even though that has been cut back ; we also don't have the same spending power as we did when KK was manager in the 90's. We ALL want winning/attacking football, but we haven't the means to buy it so we have to produce it locally - an that will take time and shrewd buying.

This is patent nonsense - Carroll scored almost 20 goals last season and despite Shola playing in the Prem, he has NEVER looked like being a legendary Newcastle No 9, either in his general play or goals scored. Carroll is not yet in the No 9 club at SJP, but he has much more chance of making it than Ameobi ever will. The only person who thought he was a decent replacement for Shearer was himself. Carroll got 19 in 42 games (7 as sub) Ameobi got 12 in 19 (8 as sub) http://www.journallive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2010/01/18/shola-ameobi-wants-to-fulfil-ambitions-at-newcastle-61634-25622463/2/ Sounds fair enough to me, or maybe you prefer players to have no confidence in themselves or desire to be the best? As to what this will do to his confidence: Probably not the best of news for a self confessed confidence player who if fit will play a lot of games next season. He's not the greatest striker in the world, but it's ridiculous the amount of stick he gets, and unfortunately he's probably the best goal scorer at the club right now. You've proved my point - Carroll was FIT enough to play the necessary number of games to score his total - Shola rarely has been. Picking out 12 matches is a poor way to judge a striker who has been a first-team squad member for almost 10 years.....Carroll is many years younger than Ameobi .

...'Bringing relegation into things is just confusing people'.... Well, you got it partly right - it would certainly confuse the club's bankers ! Unbelievable that anyone could think that relegation doesn't matter in all this. You're proving my point really. I didnt say relegation doesnt matter anywhere, its just gone over your head. You are correct there, too - it HAS gone over my head and, I suspect, over everyone else's who is reading this. Sorry to have to labour the point but football at the top level is ALL about results.

This is patent nonsense - Carroll scored almost 20 goals last season and despite Shola playing in the Prem, he has NEVER looked like being a legendary Newcastle No 9, either in his general play or goals scored. Carroll is not yet in the No 9 club at SJP, but he has much more chance of making it than Ameobi ever will. The only person who thought he was a decent replacement for Shearer was himself.

The number 9 shirt is part of Newcastle folklore mainly because of the likes of Hughie Gallagher and Jackie Milburn, who were both great goal-scoring centre-forwards. Macdonald was the next player who truly deserved that mantle and that was 15 years after Milburn left SJP. Not sure that Quinn deserves to be among the a/m names - got goals, but was not as exciting to watch as the others After Supermac, I reckon Andy Cole was the next deserving wearer and if Quinn was to be considered, so then should David Kelly because of the major impact he had ion the 2 seasons he spent at SJP. After Cole, both Ferdinand and Shearer deserved the shirt, but it will be a long time until the club has a player at CF who is as good as any of those 3. Carroll is a local boy, and therefore perhaps has a better claim than anyone else at the club right now, but we need to see goals from him on a regular basis in the top flight before he can be able to wear the shirt without it being a handicap. Pele made the No 10 sacred in Brazil, and only Zico and Kaka have come close to him since. Likewise, Cruyff made it a hard job for any Dutchman to wear the No 14...its all about special players and the number they wear rather than just the No 9.

...'Bringing relegation into things is just confusing people'.... Well, you got it partly right - it would certainly confuse the club's bankers ! Unbelievable that anyone could think that relegation doesn't matter in all this.

Barton needs to do his talking on the field - the days when he was viewed as possible England material are long gone(although even HE might be considered for the current England side - and that's hardly a compliment...!). When he starts to dominate the midfield during the forthcoming PL season, then he can make his mouth go, although he has never had a problem doing the latter.... Unless he does the business this season, his career will fade away.

It's all very well quoting the likes of Allardyce and Bassett when saying that fans wouldn't want combative or defensive football at SJP, but how about using the likes of Revie and Clough instead ? Both of these highly successful managers started out building teams that were hard to beat - Revie had Bremner, Giles, Charlton and Hunter and Clough sat in his car all night outside Roy McFarland's house so he could get him at CH before Liverpool did ; he also signed MacKay who, although being a good footballer, was a hard sod who could mix it - ask Len White...... People hated Leeds because of their physical approach but the Leeds fans couldn't care less because they were, with Liverpool, the most successful team in the country. It's only when the basement football is unsuccessful that fans start whingeing about it - and Allardyce was NOT successful at SJP.

I think the earliest we'll be in a title race will be the season after next. Sorry Mick - can't agree, I reckon it will be at least 3 seasons before the club is anything like a title contender..unless you using irony of course...!! As for the topic - I would rather win titles, stay up, win cups etc by playing 'ugly' every time. Losers win nowt, and you just have to look at how the club's image as 'The Entertainers' has left it no affection among neutral fans around the country to see that. We are not there to create entertainment for other teams' fans - our own, perhaps, and only then if it leads to winning results. The object of the game is to win - full stop.

It is essential that the club stay in the PL - if that means the side has to play 'pragmatic' football to do so, then so be it. Clearly, Ashley is NOT going to provide the necessary funds to obtain players who are able to play attacking football AND get results on a regular basis, so the manager has to make do with the resources at his disposal. In the current financial climate, it is clear that even Man U are not going to be major spenders in the transfer market, so at this point one can understand Ashley's caution but the difference between prudent spending and staying up is a very hard one to call. It would seem that players like Cleverley(who scored for Man U against Celtic), may not now be available to us if Fergie is intent(or has no choice)in making do with what he has, and that would be a pity because young players with ability on season-long loans would have been a good stop-gap for NUFC. They might also make the football a bit more interesting with their skills, but Hughton has to do the best with what he is going to get and what he has now. I am not sure, though, that the side has the players to play percentage football like , say, Stoke ; we do not have the necessary speed or physique in defence, or the speed in midfield to carry that off but no doubt the side's ability to defend a slender lead will be vital in the coming season - it will also determine whether PL football is at SJP by 2011/12...

Was glad to see the back of him - a talented player who turned into a waste of space and spent too much time believing his own publicity ; will never forget the way Scholes rammed Dyer's boastful claim to his England place right down his throat at SJP when Scholes orchestrated a 6-2 win....pure justice !

Agree with most of this - good choices .

This was one of the worst WCs I can remember. There were precious few outstanding players, hence Forlan being chosen as the best player at the tournament. As an entertainer, he wasn't in the same league as some from the past, like Garrincha(Brazil, 1958), Pele(Brazil, 1962 and 70), Cruyff(Holland, 74), Eusebio(Portugal 1966), and more recently, our own Gazza(1990) and Zidane,(France 2006). I think the tournament has become sterile and over-politicised, probably as a result of Blatter's policies. He is also to blame for the blatantly-stupid policy of avoiding technology, something at which football now lags other major sports in adopting. I believe this to be a means of enabling referees to have a hand in dictating the way games go, thus casting doubt on the honesty of the whole sport. There is no excuse to continue this antediluvian policy because it takes only split seconds from an official in the stand watching the TV replay(or a bleeper in the goal frame/ball)to confirm or change a ref's faulty decision. All refs now have head-sets, and most stadiums replay screens.... Those who fight against this are totally wrong - football has ALWAYS had to change its rules when players or managers have adopted policies that enable them to use the rules to their own advantage, but spoil it for the spectators. Our own Bill McCracken & Frank Hudspeth were responsible for the change to the offside rule in the early years of last century, because they had it off to a fine art - Newcastle were renowned for the ploy, and so successful at it that it was changed from 2 defenders(excl GK) to one - the rulers of the game at that time felt that it ruined the sport for the fans by limiting the number of goals. Likewise, the back-pass to goalkeepers was banned more recently to try to prevent time-wasting ... Blatter is a dinosaur(and a suspect one at that ..!), and should be removed as head of FIFA.

If Gosling has signed, his value to the side will, as ever, be determined by what happens on the pitch next season. On the face of it, he seems to possess decent skills, but the Everton fans seem to think he lacks pace, and this is a problem right through the current Newcastle side. As with Perch, I will make no judgments until I see him play several times, but the fact that he is young, reputedly talented and English all count in his favour - as does the lack of a big fee. I hope the lad does well for us. It's all Gris to the Mill and now we need a decent forward......WITH pace.

With the squad as it is - 7.6 to go down, no better. IF 2 decent players are signed - 6. We don't know who might leave yet.........this is Newcastle United. The midfield is absolutely dire in its current format and WILL struggle desperately in the Prem unless it is strengthened. I need hardly add that relegation will be disastrous if it happens again ; any decent players will be away for certain because the club will have proved it has no ambition.

Depends on the status of the club ; in the mid-90s, we looked forward to the start of the season knowing that at least we would be in the running for Europe - these days, its the end of April, hoping beyond hope that the club will be staying up...