Happy Face

We haven't reported a profit before player trading yet. Operating profit for the last 7 years has been... -29.0m -24.7m -37.7m -33.5m -3.9m -5.1m -0.6m I'd expect us to spend in Summer. Conveniently ignoring the mahoosive tv deal Why discount player trading btw? Does that money not count? Because people seem happy enough that we basically spend what we earn from player trading. My point is that there's been nothing in the kitty over and above that to spend. Until now. There were TV deals in place when those results were announced. We've increased outlay since moving into the current TV deal.

But the point I was laughed at for was that we will spend in Summer.

Discussion started with someone laughing at me for thinking we would spend in the summer.

Apart from after being relegated we've never really sold big in summer. We've not spent much more than we've recouped either, except last summer. When profits grew.

Missed it. Didn't ignore it. TV money is revenue so it was a strange way of phrasing it

Yes but nobody is talking about Shepherd are they? Where is the TV money then? we can afford to spend that no? Shepherd? You've lost me. TV Money? Up until now? No we can't afford to spend that because it's all been used to cover costs. Operating profit includes TV money and we've reported a loss every year. Again, this is why I expect the bumper profits this year to be followed by a good summer spend. It's also one of the reasons I've always been optimistic about Pardew's replacement. The club can afford to look at starting to grow now, rather than surviving the loss making years. You brought him up! Not me! Aye well we will see, optimism towards Ashley is just so unfounded these days shocked it still exists Ah, you were referring back 2 posts. Soz. I'm not optimistic about Ashley. See my other post about what he's done wrong. I just don't see the evidence for him pocketing tens of millions of the clubs income people seem to suggest.

Best part of £150m is a strange way of putting £78.2m It doesn't matter if Wages eat up the vast majority of it as it has up until now.

Yes but nobody is talking about Shepherd are they? Where is the TV money then? we can afford to spend that no? Shepherd? You've lost me. TV Money? Up until now? No we can't afford to spend that because it's all been used to cover costs. Operating profit includes TV money and we've reported a loss every year. Again, this is why I expect the bumper profits this year to be followed by a good summer spend. It's also one of the reasons I've always been optimistic about Pardew's replacement. The club can afford to look at starting to grow now, rather than surviving the loss making years.

I have no doubt that we will. I often think the anger at Ashley is misdirected. We all hoped that a billionaire owner would start hammering millions of his own money into the team and coaching. Once he had made clear he wouldn't do that then you can take his wealth out of the equation and look at how he runs the club as a self-financed entity. Many people still fixate on wanting his billions spent. In terms of transfers, the self-sustaining approach has been a success, on it's moderate aim of survival. Profits are spent entirely on improving the club either on the field or on the balance sheet. Loans are repaid only if and when the club can afford it having spent just enough on the squad to stay up. As profits grow, so does spending power. The failure of Ashley has been in completely obliterating our advantage over other clubs. They all have the increased TV income as well. But he has dropped Commercial and matchday income to West Ham and Sunderland levels. Retail deals and advertising that benefit his shop ahead of Newcastle United reduce the profits we make and mean a process of stabilisation that could have taken one or 2 years takes 5 years.

http://reactiongif.org/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/08/GIF--laughing-funny-LOL-haha-hehe-hilarious-fun-happy-laugh-are-you-kidding-me-Michael-Jordan-GIF.gif You don't think we will? Last summer we spent £12m MORE than we had in the previous FIVE summers COMBINED. Exactly. Last Summer was a one off and certainly wasn't the norm. We have the two Forest lads coming in plus Siem De Jong & Rolando Aarons back from injury. Over the course of the window we'll make a profit. Pretty likely there'll be one 'marquee' sale followed by a couple of players on the cheap in my opinion. Or the previous 4 windows were an exercise in making the club self-sustaining and it will continue to invest the majority of whatever profits there are into new signings. Depsite 10 years of evidence to the contrary? We have spent almost all of our profits on transfers for the past ten years. Except £11m that went on a loan repayment. We'd have spent that on 2 years interest on loans under Shepherd. a) so we haven't b)what's that got to do with anything? What happened in January then? Or when we sold Cabaye? What got spent then? a) "almost" I said. b) Without an owner or buyer willing to splash millions as a plaything, the club has to be self-sustaining. The fact it is self-sustaining and spends what profits it earns rather than being an Ashley cash cow suggests the bumber profit we report will get reinvested too. Did you see the chart? We spent over £37m after selling Cabaye. The club will still have a large cash surplus.

http://reactiongif.org/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/08/GIF--laughing-funny-LOL-haha-hehe-hilarious-fun-happy-laugh-are-you-kidding-me-Michael-Jordan-GIF.gif You don't think we will? Last summer we spent £12m MORE than we had in the previous FIVE summers COMBINED. Exactly. Last Summer was a one off and certainly wasn't the norm. We have the two Forest lads coming in plus Siem De Jong & Rolando Aarons back from injury. Over the course of the window we'll make a profit. Pretty likely there'll be one 'marquee' sale followed by a couple of players on the cheap in my opinion. Or the previous 4 windows were an exercise in making the club self-sustaining and it will continue to invest the majority of whatever profits there are into new signings. Depsite 10 years of evidence to the contrary? We have spent almost all of our profits on transfers for the past ten years. Except £11m that went on a loan repayment. We'd have spent that on 2 years interest on loans under Shepherd.

That's been my point all along. For the most part, we spend our profits.

While unprofitable.

The first sentence is one of the reasons for the conclusion in your second sentence. I was saying the same thing this time last year too. I thought we would double previous spending and I fell short with that estimate. http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/34855-clement-grenier/?p=1255479

http://reactiongif.org/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/08/GIF--laughing-funny-LOL-haha-hehe-hilarious-fun-happy-laugh-are-you-kidding-me-Michael-Jordan-GIF.gif You don't think we will? Last summer we spent £12m MORE than we had in the previous FIVE summers COMBINED. Exactly. Last Summer was a one off and certainly wasn't the norm. We have the two Forest lads coming in plus Siem De Jong & Rolando Aarons back from injury. Over the course of the window we'll make a profit. Pretty likely there'll be one 'marquee' sale followed by a couple of players on the cheap in my opinion. Or the previous 4 windows were an exercise in making the club self-sustaining and it will continue to invest the majority of whatever profits there are into new signings.

http://reactiongif.org/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/08/GIF--laughing-funny-LOL-haha-hehe-hilarious-fun-happy-laugh-are-you-kidding-me-Michael-Jordan-GIF.gif You don't think we will? Last summer we spent £12m MORE than we had in the previous FIVE summers COMBINED.

We haven't reported a profit before player trading yet. Operating profit for the last 7 years has been... -29.0m -24.7m -37.7m -33.5m -3.9m -5.1m -0.6m I'd expect us to spend in Summer.

We have the 10th costliest squad.

To What Extent Are The Chronicle Pandering to NUFC? http://t.co/mPzI44OdJ7

I think it says something about the "Should have stuck with Pardew" brigade that the ONLY result Carver has done worse in is the trip to Chelsea. A freak result for Pardew rather than a game that went to form which Carver would have expected to match or better.

Played 7 Won 1 Drawn 3 Lost 3 Scored 8/9 Conceded 14 Identical except for Carver having scored one more (9) than Pardew (8)

It's not just on the pitch either. I flicked through SSN on at 5pm on Monday and they had the transfer totaliser at £106m. Went back after 11pm and it was still at £106m. There's a million men around the UK who sat through all that, not to mention the hundreds that worked through the night beaming the information vaccum back and forth live from grounds around the country. People think they were entertained by THAT, but they're mistaken, they were lulled into a street hustlers trick, a sleight of hand that transformed absolutely nothing into absolutely nothing stretched over 6 hours with 2 hours dedicated to adverts.

http://i57.tinypic.com/154c9lg.png Have I done my sums right to work out profit on players after amortisation?

http://media.tumblr.com/b610af62ba95ab8bb1a8f89136d3a16a/tumblr_inline_ndc34d9xvV1sy96x5.jpg "STOP GETTING DEBT WRONG!!"

I don't know. I don't see why. But if he doesn't take off some of the debt, then we'll soon be paying tax on massive profits, so some sort of change in plan will be needed to avoid giving money away. Repayment of Ashley's debt wouldn't have any effect on the company's profit, or its tax bill. This is where it gets too complicated for me. Thought taking £19m from the sale of Cabaye and paying down £18m debt would leave £1m profit. Either way, think we could take the title for best Premier League profits before tax this year... I'm sure you are right and 2014 will have been very profitable. I suppose one way to look at the debt thing is when he put money into the club it wasn't treated as income - an examination of the club's reported income will confirm that. So consequently when he takes it back again it isn't treated as a cost. Taxes are paid on profits (income less costs). Mind you the club has tens of millions of tax losses accumulated from the "loss making years" and these can be used to offset any future profits, it will be a few years before NUFC has to pay over any tax on profits. Cheers for the simple explanation. Makes sense.