Chris_R

Mediocre would be, say, putting the right players in the right positions but doing nothing especially clever. Our starting line-up would be best described as "tactical suicide". Almost everyone on here could see that at 19:01 when the teamsheet was announced and we saw the semicolons delineating GK;Defence;Midfield;Strikers that showed us that Cisse was in midfield and Shola fucking Ameobi was up front.

So our striker was at right back, our right back was at left back, our right winger was on the left wing and Shola was on the pitch. Apart from that, the line-up was spot on. Well done Alan. At least you put Krul in goal.

This, many times over. Obertan looked dangerous, and he was our only genuine wide player on the pitch. Taking him off left us playing through the middle with Ameobi, Ranger and Cisse up front. You can't play that narrow and get through teams, and it was obvious that we were just going to revert to hoofing it. Which we did. What we needed was more width, not less. Obertan on the right, Ferguson on the left, Ameobi and Cisse up front. Or Cisse and Ranger up front. Or Sammy on the left and Obertan on the right, with Cisse plus Shola or Ranger up front. So many good choices and he consistently picks the wrong ones. I'm out of patience.

That Caulkin quote, ffs. Of course Cisse and Ba didn't work. Whenever we played 4-4-2 with them up front we had the wingers on the wrong bloody wings. We could have had Shearer and Bellamy up front but with that supply they'd have looked fucking dreadful. Otherwise we had Cisse on the right side of a 4-3-3, which is just as baffling. Even on the left of a 4-3-3 he might look better as at least then he can cut inside. However I genuinely believe that if we had a right-footed right winger and a left-footed left winger playing in a 4-4-2 then Cisse and Ba would have looked ten times better as a strike pair. Still, it's all academic now. Unless we then go on to repeat the same mistakes with whoever else we bring in during January.

Disagree entirely. Firstly, if Pardew was even remotely surprised that Ba is leaving then he needs his fucking head read, as it's been coming for months. If he failed to factor that into his plans then he deserves a slap. Secondly, Cisse without preparation is a far better striker than Shola will ever be, even with a whole year's solid rest, preparation, training and instruction. Thirdly, Cisse is not a winger. Just isn't one. Should never have even been under consideration to play there. Wingers play on the wing, strikers play up front. It's not fucking rocket science. If you have 2 good strikers and no good wingers, one of the strikers goes on the bench. Because I can pretty much assure you that a half-decent winger on the wing will be infinitely more effective than an excellent striker. For all three of the above reasons, Pardew needs a massive kick in the nutsack.

He's going to be at left back for a long time, might as well get used to it. End of. Well what's the point in complaining about anything then? Might as well shut the whole bloody forum. If something's wrong, people are entitled to point it out.

Pardew's fault anyway for playing Santon on the wrong side of the pitch. He's right footed, therefore he's a rightback. End of.

If that's 4-4-2, it's just about forgiveable. If it's 4-3-3, which the semicolons seem to denote, and Cisse is on the wing, then Pardew has lost any semblence of support that I had for him. Disgusting. Utterly disgusting.

If Cisse doesn't play centrally tonight, I think I'll cry. Simply must.

£9m + SWP. That probably knocks about £5m off the deal, surely? There's no way QPR could sell SWP if they tried. Probably not even on a free. He's a millstone around the club's neck and they'll have to Alan Smith this one through to it's conclusion I'm afraid.

This. For further proof see "Hoilett, J"

The only reason he cared about playing out wide is that it lessened his chance of a move that would put him on the money he felt he deserved to be on. Now he's got that money, and at 27 with what will be his final big payday, he won't give a shit if all they want him to do is drive the team bus. From all the interviews I've read of him talking of his struggles as a young footballer, it's all been about constantly getting a better contract at a better club rather than being a good footballer and playing well for the team etc. He's very single-minded and determined, with the sole goal of making as much money as he can. Being a good footballer has just been something he's had to do to achieve that. Not knocking him for that mind, just pointing it out.

This "Pardew finished 5th" malarky needs to stop. Carr assembled us an excellent team, and we finished 5th despite Pardew, not because of him. His part in putting that team together was next to none, and although he's a good spokesman and says all the right things and comes over as very articulate, he hasn't got the faintest idea on how to put together an attacking side that has any flair or can play lesser teams off the park. We defend doggedly, but once we get the ball we're just not set up to exploit teams or create chances.

So's Jonas for that matter. Simpson is terrified of a football, and Cisse is an out and out striker. For a cross to be dangerous, it has to be between the goalkeeper and the back four, and you can deliver that ball FAR easier with a cross swinging away from the goal than one swinging in. You've got far more area to aim at that way. Inswinging crosses have to be sooo accurate. And then you've got the added problem that the defenders are facing away from goal and can clear much easier than they can an outswinging cross when they're facing their own net. Finally, imagine yourself as a striker getting on the end of an inswinging cross. You have to look far further behind you to follow the flight of the ball, whereas an outswinging cross is going to be in front of you when you head it, facing the goal. So having the wrong players on the wrong side of the pitch means that our crosses have to be far more accurate to find our man, they're easier to defend against and harder to score from. Yet we persist with it. It's just beyond comprehension.

I'd say we need at least 2 if we're going to play 4-4-2, which seems to be Pardew's preference. The only traditional wingers we have at the moment are Jonas, Obertan and Ferguson, and it's difficult to make a case that any are good enough for the first team. Ben Arfa isn't a winger. He's great wide in a 4-3-3 but shouldn't be allowed near the wing in a 4-4-2.

He'll leave on some massive contract, then his knee will explode within a couple of months. For what it's worth, I think we need to part ways with him. We're setting our entire team up around him, which isn't doing us any favours. It's doing him favours, but ultimately all that does is make it even more likely that he'll leave. Ironically, although Pardew is desperate for him to stay he's making it more likely that Ba will leave with every game he plays entirely focused around him, as it's just putting him in the shop window all the time. If he'd played on the left of a 4-3-3 all season, he'd have far less goals and nobody would want to go anywhere near him at £90k/week, just as in the close-season. We'd almost certainly be higher up the table, Cisse would be scoring more to compensate for Ba's reduced return, we'd be playing better football and we'd have world peace and a cure for famine. Or something like that.

I think N'Zogbia and Milner was the last time I remember us fielding 2 proper, competent wingers.

Yes he has, as part of a 4-4-2, with a right footer on the left wing and a left footer on the right wing so they can't cross properly to him and the rest of the team just hoofing the ball up front. Baffled as to what you think that proves. He needs to play in the middle of a 4-3-3, or in a 4-4-2 with the wingers on the correct wings. Sadly we lack the personnel to do the latter, and the manager lacks the balls to do the former.

Again for clarity: But for the record, Ba is 10/10 centrally in our universe. It's him, Cisse, Shola, Xisco or Ranger. Same goes for rating him out wide. His competition is Jonas, Obertan, Ferguson or HBA. No point rating him against Lionel Messi when he's not available for selection for us on Saturday. Anyway, it's an opinion, it was to demonstrate a point, it doesn't matter what the numbers are, arguing over whether they're right is the wrong argument as the only point I was making was that the team is better with Ba on the left rather than Cisse out wide. I said as much in the first post.

Well you've convinced me there with your detailed analysis and counter arguments. Thanks for that. Irrelevant anyway as like I said it's just an opinion to demonstrate a point. I can't see that it matters what numbers are there, whether Cisse should be a 9 or an 8 as a centre forward or whatever daft argument anyone wants to wave about. I've not benchmarked the numbers against anything, it's not like I spent 2 hours pouring over video evidence and reams of statistics to distill a player's career down to a single digit. It's based on gut feeling to show a point. Ba on the left and Cisse centrally as a combination is better for the team than Ba central and Cisse wide. That's the argument, not whether I've got the numbers above correct.

Exactly this. Amazing the number of people who don't seem to grasp this particular argument. Indeed. I'll put some illustrative numbers on it: Ba central: 10/10 Cisse central: 9/10 Ba wide: 7/10 Cisse wide: 2/10 Saying we must play Ba centrally because that's his best position or because he's out best striker is crazy really, you can't set a team up like that. You push Cisse wide, and have a combined rating of 12/20. Play Cisse central and Ba wide and you have 16/20 which improves the team massively. They're my numbers of course, and everyone else's opinion might be different, but I imagine it's still the same outcome. The best thing for the TEAM is Ba wide. The only beneficiary of Demba Ba playing centrally is Demba Ba.

Pretty inevitable that given our reliance on Williamson for set pieces that his first goal for us would be in his own net.

Could work if he plays the right players in the right positions. Given the starting 11, needs to be: -----------------------Cisse Ba-------------------Anita----------------HBA ------------Jonas-------------Tiote Marveaux should be in for Jonas given how he's looked recently, with Anita and Marveaux swapping places. However I'm worried we'll go: ---------------------Ba Jonas------------HBA------------Cisse ----------Anita-------Tiote Which could be all kinds of wrong. There's an argument for HBA playing there, but Jonas and Cisse wide will be dreadful.

Can't blame them, it's the only opportunities we're getting. If I was Tiote spending the match getting a stiff neck watching the ball sail over my head or Ba having long balls wellied up to me all match, then on the rare occasions I got the ball at my feet 30 yards out then damn fucking right I'm having a shot. It's probably the best chance I'll get all game.

Don't worry lads, it's all a cover. It's got nothing to do with a concern over tactics leaks. He's just readying another excuse for 6 week's time. Think about it: Building a fence so nobody call discern our tactics? Fuck me, that is going to be the tallest fence in the world. Such things do not come cheaply. And what's around the corner? The January transfer window. You can probably see where this is going now: "Well, we desperately wanted new players, but after I persuaded Mike to shell out on a giant fence round the training pitch, there just wasn't anything left to get anyone in. But the fans should just be grateful that we only had to sell Ben Arfa and Cabaye to help cover the cost."