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The goal that wasn't against Germany and the CL final goal weren't crucial goals. One wasn't even a goal and the other game they lost.

Absolutely convinced that if you looked through Lampard's catalogue of goals, you would find goals of that calibre in there. It's not about the calibre it's when they are scored that's the point here. Lampard to be fair to him has done it at crucial times too. But that feeds into the argument that was going on around Messi - I don't know how you can judge a player on moments in a match of particular importance that rely purely on chance and/or the performance of your team mates. There is no reason whatsoever to think that if a similar ball had dropped to Lampard in a FA Cup Final as it did for Gerrard against West Ham, that Lampard might have scored the exact same goal. No there isnt and as I said Lampard has scored a crucial goal or two in the big games. But Gerrard did do it and more than once too.

See the Gerrard goals come in Cup Finals or International games away in Germany, Lampards come in League games versus Hull or Everton [emoji1]

Absolutely convinced that if you looked through Lampard's catalogue of goals, you would find goals of that calibre in there. It's not about the calibre it's when they are scored that's the point here. Lampard to be fair to him has done it at crucial times too.

Agreed. And his goal against Germany in 2001. Phenomenal.

Generally in a far worse team too. Didn't Lampard play a fair few of those games for West Ham?? Gerrard - 475 games for Liverpool, Lampard - 429 for Chelsea. Yeah. Hence the "generally".

Generally in a far worse team too.

By the way Gerrard has played 100 less League Games than Lampard too.

How many deflected shots?

I wouldn't say that Gerrard is renowned for his speed or ability to beat players. I would say Lampard has better vision, is more intelligent in his use of the ball and the way he timed his runs, and was a better/more effective passer of the ball than Gerrard. I can honestly say that the game against Costa Rica was the first time that Lampards passing actually caught my eye.

Im talking about a goalscoring midfield player with little else to bring to the table. In fact with Platt im talking about 2 of them. Indeed of the two I'd take Platt because of his workrate.

Sorry but both of those posts are nonsense. Lampard is a goalscoring midfield player with little else in his arsenal. He isnt quick, he doesnt beat players nor win the ball nor play defence splitting passes. All staple parts of a quality midfielder. Some, like Gerrard, did all. There's the difference.

As in he's seemed to make a good career out of being a limited player? I think you are underestimating Lampard a huge amount in your analysis. I am not sure on what basis Lampard is a limited footballer - there is a huge amount more to his games than long range shots as you seem to imply. It would be a bit like me saying all Gerrard does is run around a lot (usually ending up in the wrong position), play long crossfield 'Hollywood' balls to the opposition full back and put in a few hard tackles (usually bordering on two footed). That's honestly how I see Lampard. I don't recall him ever controlling a game in the way an International quality midfielder should. I think the comparison with David Platt is a very good one. Average footballers with a goalscoring knack.

As in he's seemed to make a good career out of being a limited player?

Lampard went missing far too often for England. And as I said, whilst Gerrard never reached the heights internationally that he should have, he was still comfortably better than Lampard in an England shirt. Even as recently as 2 years ago he was England's best player at a major tournament. Lampard was played far too often in a 4-4-2 alongside Gerrard which didn't suit him, same can be said for Gerrard and also Scholes on the left in a diamond 4-4-2. Was probably to the detriment that we had so many gifted CAM's at the same time. One of the best games I saw from Lampard was actually when Ledley King was playing the DM role giving Lampard license to bomb forward. Gerrard popped up with crucial goals in the world cup so was tough to drop one of them. Sven should never have pushed Scholes out left to accommodate Lampard. We saw the potential of a Scholes/Gerrard partnership in the 5-1 in Germany. And that should've been our midfield pair barring injuries until 2006 or even 2008.

Lampard went missing far too often for England. And as I said, whilst Gerrard never reached the heights internationally that he should have, he was still comfortably better than Lampard in an England shirt. Even as recently as 2 years ago he was England's best player at a major tournament.

Not intelligent at all if you Google his 9/11 antics.

I'll second that. And there's been some real rewriting of history here by the usual suspects. Frank Lampard hasn't been a good England player and while Steven Gerrard hasn't performed at his full potential for England, he's been comfortably better than Lampard who has rarely performed at International level. The reason being, at International level you have to have more in your locker than what Lampard has. Picking the ball up 30 yards from goal, advancing 5 or 10 yards then shooting, which Frank has made a career from, just doesn't cut it. Gerrard is a better passer, tackler, is quicker and has more fitness. And has the ability to control a game. Lampard never had that to his game. I remember having virtually the same debate about Gascoigne and Platt. And Gerrard and Lampard is a good comparison with them.

Yeah well said Baba. Gerrard was still England's best performer up to quite recently and only a poor World Cup has tainted that. He's going to look back at his International career on the whole and think that he's been an ok England player but could've been better.

It's going to be tough for Tottenham to finish as high as last season I reckon. The 4 that finished above them and Manchester United will in my opinion finish higher.

They've superceded us though by calling his ma, his pa , his dog and his car a cunt. Like Dave said; the Mackems have been very impressive this weekend.

Read a few things a while back they want 2030 to go back to Uruguay, co-hosting with Argentina. Can't see it mind. No market for advertisers nevermind the lack of infrastructure. Fairly sure they were supposed to host the 86 World Cup. Can't remember why it went to Mexico who'd hosted one a mere 16 years earlier and suffered a terrible earthquake iirc . Something happened and I forget what, which made FIFA take it off Colombia.

Sunderland Association Football Club and its supporters can rightly feel proud of themselves. Their generosity in paying tribute by contributing so freely to the fund set up in memory of our two comrades is hugely appreciated.

Just tragic, tragic news. RIP to both and condolences to both families.

He's not a real M. Besler you know.