Incognito

Maybe he did but by cruel coincidence he landed on that boat, we'll never know. Kevin Kyle would definitely have missed the water like.

I thought it was quite a good shop.

Kevin Kyle was always destined for a life of cleaning shithouses.

Isn't "support the team not the regime " a nonsensical soundbite because by doing the first are you not kind of doing the second indirectly?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01118/jan-koller_1118952i.jpg Now there's a man who enjoys a bit of ethnic cleansing Hard to say if the Koller matches the cuffs.

English Riviere.

I think it's clear he needs a break. He is either carrying an injury that won't clear without an op, like a hernia type ailment, or he's just jaded. He hasn't looked himself for a while imho.

We'll finish top four, but I doubt there'll be many who will bet against it. It's certainly not a foregone conclusion like it is for say Chelsea or Citeh.Arsenal have also strengthened so I reckon 4th is the best you'll do.Im hoping for a large transitional period and then the pressure mounts. Disgruntled followers etc. etc.

Fucking Haguealikey on the end.

He's got Triggers suit on.

I agree, but he was no Lionel Messi at his best, not by a long chalk. Not even Ronaldo at his best was. There I'll have to disagree completely with you. Both at their peak were as good as Messi in my opinion if not better. Difference is Messi has been able to maintain the same level for so many games in a row, so many years in a row it's become something we haven't seen from a player in this generation and that's what makes him the best of his generation in my opinion. Nah, sorry like. Just no. Messi scored in every match at his peak, as in he scored 33 goals in 21 games in a row, he scored f***ing 91 goals in 69 games man, again including the important ones. He's scored in: 2009 and 2012 Copa Del Rey Final 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 Supercopa Finals 2009 and 2011 Champions League Finals (he was also man of the match in both) 2011 Supercup Final 2009 and 2011 World Club Cup Finals He's also scored 21 goals in 27 el clasicos with 15 assists. Messi was the better player at his best or at his worst and literally the only reason to suggest otherwise is Zidane's goals in the '98 final and Messi missing in the '14 final. Even then it's ridiculous tbh. Messi is the best player that we've seen in our lifetimes and even the slightest suggestion otherwise is nothing short of preposterous contrarianism. "Best" is ambiguous/subjective though. Best: - Over the course of an entire season at club level? Definitely. Greatest player ever for me in that context. - Best in the big games? Not by a long shot. I've always felt Messi was thoroughly disappointing at CL/interinational level against quality/on form defenses. Inter over two legs, Chelsea over four, even the 2 CL finals against ManU where he was ultimately quiet/poor imo. Athletico Madrid in the CL this year. 2010 World Cup when Maradona was blamed, 2014 World Cup when the World Cup was blamed. - Best at international level? Nowhere near. I'd take Messi over anyone else if you wanted to win a domestic league. Knockouts of the CL and World Cup, I'd much rather have someone who has proven they can pull the strings in big games when the attention will be on them, rather than someone who goes out without a whimper. Same applies for Cristiano Ronaldo. Amazing over a domestic season, but e.g. Figo was better on the international stage and in big CL games. P.S. bit of a coincidence that both Messi and Ronaldo flop at international level, and even in the latter stages of the CL against top defenses? Ronaldo has flopped alot more, including in the CL where he's been majorly disappointing far more often than not in the knockout stages. They're ridiculous goalscoring players but neither are anything like as well rounded as some of the other legends they're being compared to. IMO anyway. Messi that scored in both Champions League finals and was Man of the Match in both? He's undoubtedly a big game player as well. I've listed the finals that he's scored in. I dunno, it just seems like everyone's suddenly forgotten because of the World Cup Final. It's honestly on the level of being 'if you don't think he's the best you've ever seen (unless you've seen Pele or Maradona) then you're either being a contrarian, or you know nothing about football.' It's on that level of pig-headed arrogance about it. To me suggesting otherwise is totally insane. Scored in those finals (one a header from a cross after being out of the game for most of the match, and the other a frustrated shot straight down the middle that should have been saved by an aging keeper who retried straight after), yes, but in both games against ManU he was ultimately kept very quiet. I'm going by what I've seen in those games - imo neither performance was good nor up to Messi's normal standards. He played no better than e.g. David Villa or Pedro, who also scored in those finals iirc. I just wanted to see him have great games against the top sides when the pressure is high, not just be clamped down on and reduced to maybe scoring an unexpected goal to mask an average/poor performance - evidently that was an unrealistic expectation. As an analogy for this point of view, Zidane's 98 World Cup final goals, and his volley (probably one of the greatest volleys of all time behind van Basten's) against Leverkusen in the CL final, neither of them weigh all that heavily on how I rate him as a great, as imo in both games he was fairly poor/quiet overall. What I rate Zidane on is the numerous big games for club and country in crunch stages of the biggest competitions (CL, European Championships, World Cup) where he dominated games, pulled the strings, tore a quality team apart or damaged them psychologically by toying with them. E.g. Zidane over two legs vs one of the best ManU sides Alex Ferguson had in the 02/03 CL, he didn't score any goals and didn't get any assists (unless that pass to Figo counts as one), but he was phenomenal in those games, utterly untouchable, and was just as good against Juve in the semi's where his team got knocked out because they couldn't defend. The fact that he didn't score goals in these games, didn't win a trophy, didn't even get to the CL final that season, means little to me - he was utter class in the big games against top teams, and that's the baseline for me (performances over stats). I believe my views to be consistent in this regard. I think Zidane has had considerably better games in the biggest competitions against top calibre opposition than Messi in this regard, hence why I would hesitate to say Messi was definitely better - it depends on context/scenario for me. Good post.

I agree, but he was no Lionel Messi at his best, not by a long chalk. Not even Ronaldo at his best was. There I'll have to disagree completely with you. Both at their peak were as good as Messi in my opinion if not better. Difference is Messi has been able to maintain the same level for so many games in a row, so many years in a row it's become something we haven't seen from a player in this generation and that's what makes him the best of his generation in my opinion. Nah, sorry like. Just no. Messi scored in every match at his peak, as in he scored 33 goals in 21 games in a row, he scored f***ing 91 goals in 69 games man, again including the important ones. He's scored in: 2009 and 2012 Copa Del Rey Final 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 Supercopa Finals 2009 and 2011 Champions League Finals (he was also man of the match in both) 2011 Supercup Final 2009 and 2011 World Club Cup Finals He's also scored 21 goals in 27 el clasicos with 15 assists. Messi was the better player at his best or at his worst and literally the only reason to suggest otherwise is Zidane's goals in the '98 final and Messi missing in the '14 final. Even then it's ridiculous tbh. Messi is the best player that we've seen in our lifetimes and even the slightest suggestion otherwise is nothing short of preposterous contrarianism. That last paragraph is bollocks. I'm not being contrary and Ive seen better than Messi in my lifetime. Ive seen one or two on the same level too. You're a bit older than me, but if you were the same age as me my argument would simply be that you haven't. Yes I guess so.

I agree, but he was no Lionel Messi at his best, not by a long chalk. Not even Ronaldo at his best was. There I'll have to disagree completely with you. Both at their peak were as good as Messi in my opinion if not better. Difference is Messi has been able to maintain the same level for so many games in a row, so many years in a row it's become something we haven't seen from a player in this generation and that's what makes him the best of his generation in my opinion. Nah, sorry like. Just no. Messi scored in every match at his peak, as in he scored 33 goals in 21 games in a row, he scored f***ing 91 goals in 69 games man, again including the important ones. He's scored in: 2009 and 2012 Copa Del Rey Final 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 Supercopa Finals 2009 and 2011 Champions League Finals (he was also man of the match in both) 2011 Supercup Final 2009 and 2011 World Club Cup Finals He's also scored 21 goals in 27 el clasicos with 15 assists. Messi was the better player at his best or at his worst and literally the only reason to suggest otherwise is Zidane's goals in the '98 final and Messi missing in the '14 final. Even then it's ridiculous tbh. Messi is the best player that we've seen in our lifetimes and even the slightest suggestion otherwise is nothing short of preposterous contrarianism. That last paragraph is bollocks. I'm not being contrary and Ive seen better than Messi in my lifetime. Ive seen one or two on the same level too.

As I said before, at his very best, Zidane was just unbelievable. The man was a magician. Had he reached those levels like the ones he reached in Euro 2000 more consistently, then I believe he would be mentioned more favourably. He was the epitome of a big game player.

Zidane at his best trumps Messi at his best imo. Messi though is better because he produces it more.

Cheers.

Will be out having a birthday drink so fortunately I won't be able to follow this.

And noone talks less than triggs. if you go back over every opinion I gave here over the course of the world cup, I'd say at least 90% were correct Your maths seems to worse than your football bantz. Name 5 opinions I gave over the world cup that were wrong and I'll let it go I seriously try and avoid your posts since your Samaras outburst tbh. Im not going to dredge them now. Samaras outburst I said he wasn't shit, fucking massive outburst like fucking hell man That was enough when he clearly is shit.

And noone talks less than triggs. if you go back over every opinion I gave here over the course of the world cup, I'd say at least 90% were correct Your maths seems to worse than your football bantz. Name 5 opinions I gave over the world cup that were wrong and I'll let it go I seriously try and avoid your posts since your Samaras outburst tbh. Im not going to dredge them now.

And noone talks less than triggs. if you go back over every opinion I gave here over the course of the world cup, I'd say at least 90% were correct Your maths seems to be worse than your football bantz.

And noone talks less than triggs.

Remember watching him play for Napoli on BSkyB when they had Italian football before C4 had it. Trying not to come across as an arse (genuinely not the intention), but how many games do you think you saw and (if you don't mind me asking) how old were you? Maybe 15 over 2 years and I'd have been 21 or 22.

Remember watching him play for Napoli on BSkyB when they had Italian football before C4 had it.

Sounds like Chris Waddle.

I never saw Pele live but ive seen enough of him on film and listened to countless men whose knowledge I respect to make a decent enough judgment. The first time I saw Maradona he was 18 and tearing apart a fair Scottish side at Hampden. I've seen him many times and indeed saw him play at Wembley in 87.