Incognito

Cheers. I was surprised Dave seemed to be suggesting it it because I thought he would know from my previous form on here that I'm not any sort of WUM at all. I know from posting here before that good posters like him and Wullie can easily understand the basic points I'm making, while not necessarily having to agree at all. Can't see anything in those diagrams or the description of them that could be construed as trolling. You are trolling because your initial response to my post was a textbook straw man. In fact, I reproduce the wikipedia example, because it so closely parallels your post: You then punctuated said straw man with a gratuitous, trolling smiley face. Next, you ignored the entirety of my argument with a one line, logically dubious "Our players played significantly fewer than players at other clubs due to injury" and attempted to support this hypothesis with the explosion of colour that in no way countered my argument nor added to your own. Therefore, another textbook fallacy; this time the red herring. (Further, when ignoring my argument, you skipped over the grounds on which I consider injury to be an invalid defense of our poor form, which still stands unchallenged). Your explanations were based on sandy foundations at best, and can be countered on a number of grounds. For instance, the addition of five first team players in January. The impact of this, for instance, sees Debuchy starting 14 games and Simpson 12 (accoring to your figures), which theoretically adds weight to your position of "wider spread of core players." In fact, it has nothing at all to do with injuries yet seemingly adds credence to your argument. Your argument also ignores the ridiculous team selections of the manager, which has seen starts given to players such as Perch and Bigirimana that a better manager might have given to Anita. (And while that may be wildly hypothetical, is there a single Toon fan who would have chosen Perch or Bigirimana over Anita, ever? Anita could easily have as many starts as Jonas, which would have narrowed the spread of core players, to use your parlance.) Again, while seemingly adding to your theory, it in fact has nothing to do with injuries. Therefore, sir, I suggest that your arguments are specious, your logic flawed and your manner of debate fallacious. And given your well-established preference of piling blame on Ashley while absolving Pardew, I stand by my labelling of you a troll. And given my lengthy response to a troll, you probably got that thrilling tingle just from seeing a wall of text. That's okay, I only replied because I was sad that decent posters like Ian W and Inochi felt the need to stick up for you. Those two are principled debaters who defend their positions well. You, sir, do not. I think you're completely barking up the wrong tree tbh.

I'd include Shankly and Busby in any list.

I have a problem in that we have a team that looks good first half but fades off miserably in the second. Whoever the fitness/stamina coach is needs firing tbh. Surely it isn't good to have a player who you deem it necessary to take off week in week out after 60-70 minutes, surely because of low stamina levels ? I say this because every week I watch and said player, Gouffran, is in our top 3 performers.

He's been diabolical today. Prima donna describes him to a tee.

Tiote is a right softie

I think we've been ok today in fact better than ok. I think we've been good.

I thought it was a good tackle tbh, clearly played the ball.

Nah. To be fair to Becks, you can't compare him to any of them. All far superior. But most are different types of player. And to say he is one of the best passers ever is laughable to he honest. As is he had a good left foot.

We are talking about footballing talent here not personality, Beckham seriously is League 2 compared to George Best. Quite sad to see such a legend labelled a "wanker" just because he was an alcoholic. You could substitute Best's name for Gascoigne and the point would be identical. If Best really did say what he was reported to have said when Andy Cole joined Man Utd then I think it's safe to call him a wanker. I don't know what he was supposed to have said mate. Or if he was in drink when he said whatever he said. "A lot of money to pay for a n*****" is what's been said. Wouldn't shock me. Wow. Never heard that. Not good obviously if he did say it.

We are talking about footballing talent here not personality, Beckham seriously is League 2 compared to George Best. Quite sad to see such a legend labelled a "wanker" just because he was an alcoholic. You could substitute Best's name for Gascoigne and the point would be identical. Different generations big man. You remember Best the player first and foremost. Of course I've seen the clips of him playing, and he was undeniably a world class player. In the top 5 ever without doubt. But I remember the guy who used to sit on the tv, looking like a tramp and blatantly steaming. To me he always came across as someone who was his own biggest fan and looked down on players and people who he deemed beneath him, a deeply selfish man. The same couldn't be said of Gazza who despite his problems has always played down his ability and been pleasant to anyone he came in to contact with, with the possible exception of his wife. Either way I have no time for people who squander their natural talent so stupidly, when millions around the world would give their left bollock to have an ounce of the ability of a Gascoigne or Best. For me, that is why Beckham is superior to them in every way. He didn't have the talent they had, he worked hard for everything he has got and deserves every penny and all the accolades he rightly receives. I remember being shocked and a little upset when Best appeared on that infamous Wogan interview, nobody had really seen an alcoholic that mortal on TV before. It was such a sad spectacle. But you can't compare Beckham as a footballer to him or Gascoigne. It is like comparing Mike Williamson to Franco Baresi. Such a gulf in quality.

We are talking about footballing talent here not personality, Beckham seriously is League 2 compared to George Best. Quite sad to see such a legend labelled a "wanker" just because he was an alcoholic. You could substitute Best's name for Gascoigne and the point would be identical. If Best really did say what he was reported to have said when Andy Cole joined Man Utd then I think it's safe to call him a wanker. I don't know what he was supposed to have said mate. Or if he was in drink when he said whatever he said.

We are talking about footballing talent here not personality, Beckham seriously is League 2 compared to George Best. Quite sad to see such a legend labelled a "wanker" just because he was an alcoholic. You could substitute Best's name for Gascoigne and the point would be identical.

Yeah, I missed his film star looks out. Go on then, name them.

He took every free kick around the penalty area for years though.

And that, gentlemen, is that. Far be it from me to disagree with a proper legend. I cannot emphasize enough how over rated Beckham was/is, and I say that because I've seen far, far better English players in my lifetime. Gazza, Waddle, Hoddle were all flair players as Becks supposedly was and all are far superior ,in my opinion to him. You cannot fault Beckham's attitude, professionalism and work rate, or indeed his right foot from a set piece , but do those attributes really make a footballer who has had the press he has ? In my honest, no it doesn't.

Apparently in advanced talks with Bulgarian outfit, Dynamo Bakov.

That's taking it a bit far isn't it? No, no it honestly isn't.

Right place , right time football wise for him because had he played in the 70s or 80s he wouldn't have played five games for England. Waddle has every right to say what he did, he really was a far superior player to Beckham.

We've been able to predict Pardew's progression or regression by looking at his career history so far. Last season eerily followed his shite second season syndrome. If he stays, and I concede that looks most likely, fuck knows what happens next, as I believe we'll be the first not to sack him after it. I hope we can add to our squad with proven quality and perhaps not stick to the buy young blueprint that we seem to be using. I'd like to see an experienced centre back brought in and an experienced goalscorer too.......I understand experienced goalscorers would be at the top of most clubs list though.

But ridiculously inaccurate. A bit embarrassing for Waddle really. He went a bit far, yeah. He did slightly exaggerate a tad though Waddle is certainly one of the ones that was far superior to Beckham.

Phucking filistine.

Ey she has no kernt but she ernly has a short fewse marra. FTM.

Give Ashley a Chance he has been in the game for 4 years. He learning the ropes. Logically he has little to loose , he has the recruiting under control , the wages and the profits. All he needs is a muppet which could make the team play good football and stay our of his ass. Doesn't seem that hard compared to when he first bought the club.. 6 years actually, almost to the date. A period in which he appointed 5 managers, all of whom where English, cheap and mediocre, apart from Keegan who he decided to undermine. He has a proven track record of terrible management choices, and the things in which we seem to be improving as you suggest (correctly btw) are a direct result of penny pinching, not some ambition to make us a top club in England. Logic dictates our next managerial appointment will have to be cheap, willing to work in a system where he has no control over recruitment and quite probably English unfortunately. 2 of them were actually Irish to be pedantic.

Credit to Beckham for that fine solo performance against Greece and a good one against Colombia in France 98, but apart from that, I felt he had a very ordinary International career. Indeed , I felt he was a very over rated player full stop. The name was always more powerful than the actual player. Decent chap though,it seems, so happy retirement Becks.

you're wrong mate, he is an atrocious manager and coach. I'm staying away from hyperbole tbh. I don't think an Italian manager is the answer either.