brummie

This was published in the editorial of the first edition of When Saturday Comes to come out after the Hillsborough disaster. Sums things up pretty well. http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1152-september-2012/8991-post-hillsborough-disaster-editorial

This short report from the day is well worth a listen to. It doesn't really get much more poignant than this (even with the music someone has added).

It's hard to really describe what it was like to those who weren't around at the time, and how it made people feel. I was a student at Newcastle Poly at the time, and vividly remember on the Monday morning after, sitting in the student union, reading the papers, as was pretty much every single person in there. It was pre internet, and we didn't have the instant access to news we have now. The papers carried some of the most disturbing pictures I've ever seen, before and since then. You could have heard a pin drop, people were just sat, taking in what had happened, and there was barely a person who didn't have tears in their eyes. As people have said, the way things were in the 80s, it could have been you, it could have been us, it could have been any club, that is the way football fans were treated then, and that is what going to football matches was like. The people who even now probably persist in blaming Liverpool fans clearly just don't get this point. Most things involving football depressingly fall back on partisan finger pointing, especially on the internet, but this was about fans, not Liverpool fans, just football fans. The events that happened on the day were staggeringly awful. The way the families have been treated in the 23 years since then is nothing short of disgraceful - called liars, lied to, and turned on by the people who were supposed to be protecting them. How they've kept their dignity in the way they have for a quarter of a century is inspirational. To now hear some of the things we've heard today, it must be awful. To hear about the doctored evidence, about the alcohol tests carried out on the bodies, even those of children, and more than anything, about the number of people who could possibly still have been saved, I can't even begin to imagine how that must make them feel today.

Too right it is.

England's future is bleak, but it's really not Hodgson's fault. Our problem is the money obsessed PL ensures home grown players are going to struggle like fuck to get established. I read something the other day which listed the English central midfielders who played last weekend and were available for selection last night. This is it. Frank Lampard, Mark Noble, Steve Sidwell, Leon Britton, Lee Cattermole, Jake Livermore, Jonny Howson, Bradley Johnson, Leon Osman, Steven Gerrard, Michael Carrick, Tom Cleverley, James Ward-Prowse. When your options are that limited, it doesn't matter who the manager is, he's not going to achieve much.

Spot on. My uncle was at Hillsborough a few seasons before 1989 and there was a crush. A major problem was only averted due to them opening the gates. I'm sure it's documented in that 'Black & White Daft' book about late 70's to early 90's book. Said it was the panic that made it worse too. Very nearly happened to our fans so it's something that couldve been avoided sadly. My opinions on it that there are several factors that caused the dissaster (no single party to blame) but I just hope that the families find some sort of closure with today's findings. Most people who went to football matches in the 1980s will be able to remember an occasion or two when they found themselves in a pen with far too many people in it, or where conditions made you concerned for your safety. It's really, really hard to explain the way football fans were viewed, were treated by others and the conditions in which we watched the games to people not old enough to remember anything but the game as we know it today. It's also hard to explain the way football fans treated each other, too. That's something that always occurs to me these days when I see away fans walking amongst home fans, in their own colours, something we'd pretty much never have done back then. What happened at Hillsborough could have happened to any of us at the time - that is what conditions and policing were like at grounds back then. The Justice campaign isn't just about Liverpool supporters, it could quite easily have been your club or mine or any other club whose fans died that day. It is about all of us. It's also, disturbingly, not just about football, either. The way those families were lied about, lied to and failed by various sectors of the machinery that runs this country - police, politicians, press - in 1989 and almost every year since then raises some really serious questions with an impact that goes way beyond football.

Well, I thought we played very well. Dion is so biased for us, though.

Oh god, a "the football club" from Lambert just now.

Jesus, how much analysis over this fucking game? Nobody cares about Liverpool any more, Hansen, you fucking douchebag.

Ah, Dion http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38906000/jpg/_38906833_dublin_savage300.jpg

He looks like he's added some kind of loose wavy perm to his hair, the cheeky monkey.

And obv, seeing that turd Downing fail so miserably has been brilliant. Second choice left back. ha ha ha.

Last season was truly horrific for me, but I can honestly say Liverpool were a beacon of entertainment for me - i had way, way more fun laughing at Liverpool than i did watching my own club. The fact that they desperately needed more options up front, and couldn't muster up another 2 or 3m for a decent player who had clearly set his heart on playing for them, to the extent of going on strike, is brilliant. FSG's only financial input since buying them has been arranging a commercial loan of £30m for them. The lean times are here for a good while yet.

The scarf sellers outside our place often have them, and I've always wondered the same thing. I don't see the point.

And another thing, I fear Paul Lambert is also a serial offender.

Fucking well tell me about it. Almost as bad as people who say "Can i get?" when ordering coffee at Starbucks. I was most gratified to hear Sean Lock moaning about that the other day, too. Fucking annoying.

True fact. Aston Villa have not scored from a corner for almost 18 months. Not at all last season, not this season yet, either.

Spurious definite article there from Adkins, as he refers to "the football club". I hope he's not going to prove a problem with that this season, it does my nut in.

I absolutely loathe Manchester United and have done since the mid 1970s, but really, you have to tip your hat to them - how many times have you seen Man United come back in matches like this and claim the whole three points when you think they're going to get none? Remarkable.

Think it's a lovely kit though. Wish Umbro were our sponsors. It's a nice kit, but disrespectful of history.

One thing I do like about newly promoted clubs is when unlikely, lower league players who have done well for them continue to do well in the top flight (Grant Holt, Rickie Lambert).

Spot on brummie I think its blow back from the transfer window tbh I honestly think it is more likely the anxiety that this season will be a case of "after the lord mayor's show" for you, which is understandable in the psyche of all football fans, but really, it's three games of the new season, it is of infinitessimal importance right now.

I have no idea what the match was like, I didn't see it, I'm only going on what I've read on this thread and a couple of threads on Villa fora. It sounds like we've at least continued trying to keep the ball and use it. To be entirely honest, that's all I want from us at the moment, even more than actual results. We'll pick up enough points over the season, but I really, more than anything, want us to continue trying to keep the ball, pass it, work hard and do things properly. It's like an exorcism of bad habits engrained over several years. Houllier started sorting it, but then McLeish took us back four years. To read you lot moaning about your team, though, honestly, you'd think you were moaning about a team that had spent the last year poking around the arse end of the table, rather than at the top end. You've had three "meh" performances. You're still a very good team with an exciting mix of talent. Just as the people tipping us to go down with two or three games gone are massively jumping the gun, I can't help but feel there's a certain amount of excessive panic and criticism on here for what is a more than decent team.

Ha ha that's a fantastic story. I love stuff like that. It's exactly the sort of thing I'd have done in that situation, and I'd have thought the same straight after.

I know what you mean, but really, the UEFA Cup was a cracking competition. Why did they have to f*** with that? (Well, money, obv). I'm a traditionalist, mind. I'd bring back the CWC too. The CWC was a cracking competition, great memories from it for Barça fans... It also made winning the Cup a bit more special since it was the only entry point, as winning the league was also the only entry point into the EC. But when they created the CL with the top 4 clubs getting in... it gave UEFA their cash cow but it cheapened everything else. The biggest chunk of hypocrisy in football is a "Champions" League where you can finish well off the top of your league and get to enter. It is utter bollocks. It produces a mad situation (see above) where finishing fourth is seen as more of an achievement than actually winning silverware.