Wandy

People can slate Penn all they want but the simple fact is that he has been proved to be correct all the way through this nightmare. I remember scoffing to myself at a comment he made back in early May when he said that the deal wouldn't be done by June 1st.

I am on board with the idea that this may yet still happen but I think we have to be realistic. The chances of that are about 5/95 against IMO. I am still in for the 5% because I simply have nothing to lose and this will probably be the last time I am fully invested in NUFC. I have already checked out of football in every other way. Not interested in the game at large whatsoever now and also not interested in any NUFC team news or transfer activity. The only thread I am now checking is this one and a couple of other takeover-related ones on other message boards.

Penn comes in here with the attitude that we are all idiots for ever believing this deal was ever going to happen and mocks people for offering ideas as to what is going on.

What Penn has failed to do on several occasions, is offer an opinion on why, if the deal was so clearly never going to happen, they think the PL has not rejected it outright.

Fair enough. I'm not the defending the bastard, by the way. Just think that, unfortunately, he will probably proved to be right once again with regards to the current state of play.

People can slate Penn all they want but the simple fact is that he has been proved to be correct all the way through this nightmare. I remember scoffing to myself at a comment he made back in early May when he said that the deal wouldn't be done by June 1st.

 

I am on board with the idea that this may yet still happen but I think we have to be realistic. The chances of that are about 5/95 against IMO. I am still in for the 5% because I simply have nothing to lose and this will probably be the last time I am fully invested in NUFC. I have already checked out of football in every other way. Not interested in the game at large whatsoever now and also not interested in any NUFC team news or transfer activity. The only thread I am now checking is this one and a couple of other takeover-related ones on other message boards.

 

Redbird capital though 

Good point. He was full of shit with that one. 

People can slate Penn all they want but the simple fact is that he has been proved to be correct all the way through this nightmare. I remember scoffing to myself at a comment he made back in early May when he said that the deal wouldn't be done by June 1st.

 

I am on board with the idea that this may yet still happen but I think we have to be realistic. The chances of that are about 5/95 against IMO. I am still in for the 5% because I simply have nothing to lose and this will probably be the last time I am fully invested in NUFC. I have already checked out of football in every other way. Not interested in the game at large whatsoever now and also not interested in any NUFC team news or transfer activity. The only thread I am now checking is this one and a couple of other takeover-related ones on other message boards.

 

What has he said that has actually been true that couldn't be achieved through guesswork?

Doesnt really matter if he was just guessing though does it? At the end of the day that is all that anyone of has been doing. And are continuing to do.

We are all basing our logic on scraps of information and our own personal bias of how we feel this will go.

People can slate Penn all they want but the simple fact is that he has been proved to be correct all the way through this nightmare. I remember scoffing to myself at a comment he made back in early May when he said that the deal wouldn't be done by June 1st.

I am on board with the idea that this may yet still happen but I think we have to be realistic. The chances of that are about 5/95 against IMO. I am still in for the 5% because I simply have nothing to lose and this will probably be the last time I am fully invested in NUFC. I have already checked out of football in every other way. Not interested in the game at large whatsoever now and also not interested in any NUFC team news or transfer activity. The only thread I am now checking is this one and a couple of other takeover-related ones on other message boards.

The PL are caught between pissing off clubs/Qatar and yet not having a reason to reject. Maybe they actually want government interference, in order to pass the blame onto them?

 

Sorry Liverpool, sorry Spurs, sorry gorilla mitts but they told us to accept it.

Works for me. 

Yeah but if the sinister reason that they have stalled it is because they dont want the Saudis full stop then this would hardly change that.

I'd love someone to explain how this will magically make the PL approve the deal. 

Ashley wouldn't hesitate to destroy the Premier League and throw the entire English game into crisis in order to get his money.

Go on Mike, show them that they have no idea how nasty you can be.

The folk of Twitter are now spamming the sponsors of the PL with their messages about corruption etc, TAG Heuer are even hiding some of the replied.

 

They've blocked me. The bloody buggers.

Aye, they seem to be blocking quite a few people.

I wonder if they will be contacting the Premier League to see what’s going on.

The PL might be prepared to dig in and ride this out but their sponsors wont.

The folk of Twitter are now spamming the sponsors of the PL with their messages about corruption etc, TAG Heuer are even hiding some of the replied.

Just had a look. Superb.

F'kin tease 

https://twitter.com/MoneyMikeAshley/status/1292407881090969606?s=20

I mean, if its true that Ashley has legitimate grounds for recourse, then it kind of makes sense why the buyers pulled out as there is no legal avenue that they can go down themselves so they were at a dead end. Also makes sense why Staveley has been cooing over Ashley despite him being a dick and altering the price. They now rely on him getting it through so they stepped aside to let him get on with it.

I just remembered that I actually have an old school friend who is a commercial lawyer.  I messaged him and asked him if he thought there was a legal case that could be pursued. His response was that it was unlikely that the buyers could do anything but Ashley possibly could if 1) The PL in some way breached the rules of their test and 2) that the breach caused the seller to "suffer a detrement" because of the breach.

Anyway, what happened to those two young lawyers that were always piping up with positive noises back in the good old days of April & May?  I need some straw clutching from someone in the legal field once again.

 

Fucking hell, this is tedious. For a start, you clearly didn't bother to read my post from a few pages ago whereby I clearly stated that all of the noise from us fans and MPs would count for nothing if there was no way this could be forced through by a legal process. truth be told, it was when I first identified your particular voice. And since I reject the possibility of the latter happening, the former is irrelevant

 

You have stated that the PL have not adhered to the rules but you have no proof of this. Masters has consistently played on the idea that "there is no timescale" for the matter to be resolved, which basically makes a mockery of their O&D test rules as they clearly think they can bend the rules around when the various key parts of the test must be conducted. They have clearly planned to hide behind this to make the whole thing go away. I think we might be getting somewhere. No “timescale” is mealy-mouthed bullshit, when they have a proscribed timescale in their own rules. Now, process, resolution - that might have no timescale. But each step does. And so, as I asked before, how did they stick to their rules and yet not make a decision?

 

 

 

PIF have not offciially walked away. Staveley herself has confirmed this.  That’s the claim, not the confirmation. Confirmation is when multiple people say it, preferably people not in the consortium

 

I can't prove you wrong that there is no case to be made. In the same way that you cannot prove wrong anyone who says that there definitely is. I'm not one of those people, by the way. I am on the fence with that and am simply willing to entertain the possibility that there is a way it can be forced through by legal means.

 

A lot of words from a journalist that "say nothing". In other words just like pretty much every other journalist's take on this whole farce over the last 4 months.

 

I can't tell of you of the legal route because I do not know how the law could be applied here. And neither do you. Precisely. People keep saying “legal options”, without ever saying what those options are. I am dubious that solid grounds exist. I hope to be convinced otherwise

 

 

 

Sorry to bore you all - I’m bored.

Take away your sarcasm and we are actually more on the same page than you make out. I myself am far from convinced that this will be resolved in a positive way for us but I am taking the silence as a positive and you appear to be taking the opposite view. Your unconvinced about the legal grounds - fair enough. But that doesnt mean that they aren't out there. One way or another, we will find out soon enough though.

Thank you for your response.

 

 

In that tripe above you unwittingly just confirmed that your little theory about how the PL and buyers have conducted themselves in the last four months cannot be included in any list of facts. Could you please rephrase this for clarity?

 

You stated it yourself. Known facts : They have not made a decision yet. Nobody knows why. No legal proceedings have taken place yet. Nobody knows why. The PIF issued a statement saying they intended to walk away but in actual fact have not yet done so officially. Nobody knows why. l’m with you here, except for the part I have underlined.

 

I responded to your argument by stating that you are merely guessing about the details in which the O&D test have been adhered to. Er, what?

 

Nobody knows how this has played out but many people have suggested that the PL have abused the rules of the test to get where we are. Pretty sure I agreed that the PL broke it’s own rules Everything, and I mean everything, is guesswork at the moment when it goes to working out how the negotiations have played out.

 

Nobody has offered a legal argument to suggest that proceedings can be made against the PL in the same way that nobody has offered one to suggest that they cant. A specious argument. I’m saying I don’t think there is a case, prove me wrong

 

That's because, once again, nobody knows either way. People have relied on their information for this entire farce through journalists who claimed to have sources ITK. Well it's worth pointing out that some of those same journalists are now saying that the buyers believe they will have legal grounds to pursue this. Yes, there’s an article from the South Shields Gazette above. A lot of words that says nothing

 

It's entirely reasonable to think that this has not gone legal yet because the buyers would prefer to get this done through reasonably amicable negotiation. Reasonable is a stretch, but it seems to be their current strategy, yes

 

It's also possible that the buyers became aware at an early stage that the PL were not adhering to the rules and guidance of their own test but said nothing and played along in the hope that the outcome would be positive. A reasonable theory, I’d be curious to hear it developed

 

Maybe, just maybe, they have been keeping a tally of all the rule bending in readiness for the legal route. That is not fantasy, it's just taking a different stance on what might have transpired and how things will now play out.Speak to me of this legal route

 

I don’t even know what you’re arguing anymore. The PL is corrupt and actively stymied a bid by PIF as a favour to BeIn - that’s my opinion. It’s also my opinion that absolutely nothing anyone can and will change enough to enable PIF to take part in a consortium to buy NUFC. I’d love to be presented with strong arguments to change than opinion. Do you have them?

 

And yeah, if you think that somehow Boris and Chi and Amanda and James and the Trust can make Richard Masters rubber stamp a PIF deal, then I comfortable with using the term fantasist.

Fucking hell, this is tedious. For a start, you clearly didn't bother to read my post from a few pages ago whereby I clearly stated that all of the noise from us fans and MPs would count for nothing if there was no way this could be forced through by a legal process.

You have stated that the PL have not adhered to the rules but you have no proof of this. Masters has consistently played on the idea that "there is no timescale" for the matter to be resolved, which basically makes a mockery of their O&D test rules as they clearly think they can bend the rules around when the various key parts of the test must be conducted. They have clearly planned to hide behind this to make the whole thing go away.

PIF have not offciially walked away. Staveley herself has confirmed this.

I can't prove you wrong that there is no case to be made. In the same way that you cannot prove wrong anyone who says that there definitely is. I'm not one of those people, by the way. I am on the fence with that and am simply willing to entertain the possibility that there is a way it can be forced through by legal means.

A lot of words from a journalist that "say nothing". In other words just like pretty much every other journalist's take on this whole farce over the last 4 months.

I can't tell of you of the legal route because I do not know how the law could be applied here. And neither do you.

 

The only facts that you have presented are what are the known rules and guidance of the PL's O&D test. That's it. Everything else you have stated is supposition, you condescending clown.

 

I’ll keep playing, because I’m bored. I’m glad you noticed I’m being condescending - in fact, I was aiming for patronising as fuck, because I’ve selected you as representative of the fantasists on this board.

 

Once again, no response to the argument. Or the facts. True to form, good on you

 

Let’s do this slowly. You have accepted the rules I’m talking about. They should have made a decision according to those rules. Are we still together?

 

They haven’t made a decision. Is that fact in doubt?

 

No one has sued the PL (as yet). Unless that is not a fact, and you know something no one else does?

 

No one has offered any legal argument of any strength that suggests there are grounds for anyone to sue the PL. I’m actually seeking facts in this case, because if they exist, I’d like to change my opinion.

 

Now, are you going to play properly, or are you going to sook?

In that tripe above you unwittingly just confirmed that your little theory about how the PL and buyers have conducted themselves in the last four months cannot be included in any list of facts.

You stated it yourself. Known facts : They have not made a decision yet. Nobody knows why. No legal proceedings have taken place yet. Nobody knows why. The PIF issued a statement saying they intended to walk away but in actual fact have not yet done so officially. Nobody knows why.

I responded to your argument by stating that you are merely guessing about the details in which the O&D test have been adhered to. Nobody knows how this has played out but many people have suggested that the PL have abused the rules of the test to get where we are. Everything, and I mean everything, is guesswork at the moment when it goes to working out how the negotiations have played out.

Nobody has offered a legal argument to suggest that proceedings can be made against the PL in the same way that nobody has offered one to suggest that they cant. That's because, once again, nobody knows either way. People have relied on their information for this entire farce through journalists who claimed to have sources ITK. Well it's worth pointing out that some of those same journalists are now saying that the buyers believe they will have legal grounds to pursue this.

It's entirely reasonable to think that this has not gone legal yet because the buyers would prefer to get this done through reasonably amicable negotiation. It's also possible that the buyers became aware at an early stage that the PL were not adhering to the rules and guidance of their own test but said nothing and played along in the hope that the outcome would be positive. Maybe, just maybe, they have been keeping a tally of all the rule bending in readiness for the legal route. That is not fantasy, it's just taking a different stance on what might have transpired and how things will now play out.

 

Because there is a rule that allows them to disqualify the proposed directors on that basis (F.1.1.1).

 

The rules explicitly state that a decision shall be made within five working days, whilst it would be perfectly reasonable for the PL to allow the consortium to respond to any concerns they raise (although their O&D test rules don't actually allow for that), if an impasse has been reached and the consortium have made it clear they want a decision to be made, it is not reasonable for the PL to continue to delay making a decision when, by the letter of their rules, they should have made a decision within five working days.

 

In other areas the PL appear to have doggedly stuck to the letter of their rules, such as correspondence being via the club rather than with the consortium, seemingly because rule F.4. is worded referring to the club submitting the declaration and being informed of the decision, rather than the person that proposes to be the director. They seem to be less concerns about sticking to their rules when it comes to the specific, unequivocal timescale set out in them that the PL are in breach of.

 

 

 

You’re perfectly correct to say that the rules say they should do this, and should do that. In fact, if that idiot above was paying attention, he’d notice that my arguments are generally fact-based, and when I’m presented with facts that are inconsistent, I adjust my opinion accordingly. You, yourself, convinced me of f.1.3 about ten pages ago - because I asked for your argument and you provided it.

 

However, the string of facts I presented above are true, even if Wandy[/member] denies it.

 

As you said, JB, the PL does have to provide an answer within five days. If they ask for more information from the consortium, it has to be provided within ten days - and then the five days starts again.

 

The PL have not adhered to those rules. Wandy[/member] suggests that is not a fact. To which I say “How then do you reconcile rule F.1.2 and rule F.1.3 with the facts as we know them?”

 

The consortium has not challenged the failure of the PL to make a decision. This is indeed an opinion - based on the information available. These pages are filled with people suggesting the consortium should sue the PL, Ashley should sue the PL, the Trust, even that goose with his private letter. And I ask you, what legal basis is there to challenge in this case? Who could bring action, and what type of action, and in which jurisdiction?

 

And if someone can give an actual answer to that, I’d love to hear it. I’m actually hoping that all the optimists/fantasists are right, and that MBS is signing the cheque for Mbappe before the new season starts. So please, some real hope would actually be really appreciated. Not some fluffy, hopeful bullshit.

The only facts that you have presented are what are the known rules and guidance of the PL's O&D test. That's it. Everything else you have stated is supposition, you condescending clown.

 

How do you know that they have no obligation to make a decision one way or the other? Show us the proof of this.

 

 

 

Why do I need to prove anything to you? It’s self evident.

 

The PL doesn’t have to do anything. Why do they? Sure, the rules say they need to have an answer in five days (or ten, I can’t remember). They haven’t. Why not? Because there’s nothing to make them.

 

From the reporting I’ve read, the impasse seems to be that the PL has requested that the consortium make amendments to their directors before they will approve the sale. PIF/KSA have declined to do so. If that scenario is correct, what exactly are they doing “wrong” by giving the consortium more time to make the required adjustments.

 

In fact, you could even argue that the PL has done more than they needed to in giving them the opportunity to change their application. They should have rejected it, but they haven’t - see how fair they are being? (Just getting people ready for next week’s press)

 

The PL has lots of rules it doesn’t enforce. Because no one makes them. Except, occasionally, commercial partners who ask for rules to be sort-of enforced.

 

Maybe it’s just the first time some people have been victims of Qatari corruption. Me, I remember when the English FA... chose to vote for Qatar 2022 instead of Australia (despite private assurances).

 

You need to prove it because you presented your opinion as if it were a known fact.

 

Nothing is self evident here. Nobody has a clue what, if anything, is going on in the background.

 

You suggesting that the PL have to do nothing from here on is nothing more than your own personal opinion.

 

Mate, you’re kidding yourself.

 

I notice you have not addressed my... thesis. Because you don’t have an argument.

 

EDIT: Actually, I’ll play your stupid game, Rafa style.

 

It’s a fact that the PL is obliged to provide a response to the O&D test within five days (PL rule f.1.3)

 

Its a fact that they can request amendments that give the applicants ten days to get their directors list in order (PL rule f. 1.2).

 

It’s a fact that they have not adhered to those rules as written - unless, for four months, there has been a 4-9-4-9 day bouncing between PL and PIF.

 

It’s a fact that the consortium has not taken legal steps against the... improper processing of their application - at least, they have not announced it.

I'm not kidding myself at all. If anyone is doing that it is you.

Nobody knows how, if or when the PL have adhered to their little aet of rules. The only known "fact' is that the PIF have issued a statement saying they have pulled out, only for Staveley to then quickly say that the PIF will be straight back in if the PL give them the green light.

All you are doing is presenting you own theory of what has happened and what will now happen, which you are perfectly entitled to do. But that theory is no more valid than that of those who are sitting on the optimistic side of the fence.

 

How do you know that they have no obligation to make a decision one way or the other? Show us the proof of this.

 

 

 

Why do I need to prove anything to you? It’s self evident.

 

The PL doesn’t have to do anything. Why do they? Sure, the rules say they need to have an answer in five days (or ten, I can’t remember). They haven’t. Why not? Because there’s nothing to make them.

 

From the reporting I’ve read, the impasse seems to be that the PL has requested that the consortium make amendments to their directors before they will approve the sale. PIF/KSA have declined to do so. If that scenario is correct, what exactly are they doing “wrong” by giving the consortium more time to make the required adjustments.

 

In fact, you could even argue that the PL has done more than they needed to in giving them the opportunity to change their application. They should have rejected it, but they haven’t - see how fair they are being? (Just getting people ready for next week’s press)

 

The PL has lots of rules it doesn’t enforce. Because no one makes them. Except, occasionally, commercial partners who ask for rules to be sort-of enforced.

 

Maybe it’s just the first time some people have been victims of Qatari corruption. Me, I remember when the English FA... chose to vote for Qatar 2022 instead of Australia (despite private assurances).

You need to prove it because you presented your opinion as if it were a known fact.

Nothing is self evident here. Nobody has a clue what, if anything, is going on in the background.

You suggesting that the PL have to do nothing from here on is nothing more than your own personal opinion.

The PL haven't fucked themselves or painted themselves into a corner, they've simply been exposed for what they are.

 

In an ideal world, the regulatory body would be neutral, wouldn't be beholden to influential stakeholders or commercial interests and decisions would be taken on a purely objective level.

 

The premier league have shown themselves to be nothing more than a pliable instrument to be used by the rich and influential as a weapon to club down anyone that might challenge their elevated status.

 

Competition is dead, corruption is the rule and if you're not in the club then fuck you, you're not getting in.

 

So how do they get out of this? Do nothing? Ain't going to work now, they have to make a decision and take a side.

 

I'm not sure they do. It's just going to be ignored as they have down for 4 month until it goes away.

 

That isn't happening now. It was, but the buyers blew them out of the water and exposed that tactic. Pretty much every outside body has said they need to explain themselves or come up with a decision, including the government.

 

They’re not accountable to the government though. You’re still clutching at straws here.

 

This.

 

It doesn't matter who says what. If and when they do actually say something it'll be them telling us it's a confidential process, they stand by it and it wasn't succesful/buyers walked away.

 

They don't have to do anything, they don't have to be transparent about their process regardless who tells them to.  If they don't want to let them in, it's unfortunately up to them.

 

I don’t know why so many of our fans choose not to believe these clear and obvious facts. It’s like this is the first time some have ever seen corruption and vested interests.

 

The PL doesn’t have very many obligations at all.

How do you know that they have no obligation to make a decision one way or the other? Show us the proof of this.

The PL haven't fucked themselves or painted themselves into a corner, they've simply been exposed for what they are.

 

In an ideal world, the regulatory body would be neutral, wouldn't be beholden to influential stakeholders or commercial interests and decisions would be taken on a purely objective level.

 

The premier league have shown themselves to be nothing more than a pliable instrument to be used by the rich and influential as a weapon to club down anyone that might challenge their elevated status.

 

Competition is dead, corruption is the rule and if you're not in the club then fuck you, you're not getting in.

 

So how do they get out of this? Do nothing? Ain't going to work now, they have to make a decision and take a side.

 

I'm not sure they do. It's just going to be ignored as they have down for 4 month until it goes away.

 

That isn't happening now. It was, but the buyers blew them out of the water and exposed that tactic. Pretty much every outside body has said they need to explain themselves or come up with a decision, including the government.

 

They’re not accountable to the government though. You’re still clutching at straws here.

 

This.

 

It doesn't matter who says what. If and when they do actually say something it'll be them telling us it's a confidential process, they stand by it and it wasn't succesful/buyers walked away.

 

They don't have to do anything, they don't have to be transparent about their process regardless who tells them to.  If they don't want to let them in, it's unfortunately up to them.

Where is your proof that they would be able to do this?

Barry Glendenning has to the most annoying cunt ever like, thick as fuck

 

I like Barry a lot but know that he, like many other Guardianers, have been very condescending towards Newcastle fans on this topic. What's he said now?

 

 

 

The bloke is a complete moron man, how can you have such a reductive outlook on sporting competition when your profession is literally sports journalism? You can essentially distill his argument to - if you're not at the bottom of the football pyramid, you've got nothing to moan about

 

Heaven forbid fans actually have ambitions for their team to be successful

 

His Mackem blinkers heavily inform his contrarian rhetoric and it's so painfully obvious. He'll still be pleading for sympathy for them without the esteemed logic that he applied to us.

 

 

Guardian journalists love us, don't they...

 

 

One good thing about being where we now are in all of this farce is that we can stop worrying about what newspapers, journailsts, BEin and gobshites like Keys say on twitter and in their columns as it will have no effect, one way or another. This is all about if/when the rule of law can resolve the issue. Opinions count for fuck all now.

The whole thing depends on whether there is a strong legal case that can be brought against the PL if they reject it or, just as importantly, refuse to make a decision one way or the other. All of the pressure from the fans and MPs will have no effect if there is nothing that can be done legally to force it through.

I'm allowing myself one last moment of optimism and going with the idea that the buyers and seller now have the PL in checkmate whereby, one way or the other, they know this is going through and are just giving the PL the opportunity to do it without the acrimony of a high profile court case. The buyers dont want to go down the legal route either as that could take throughout the whole of next season to resolve and who knows how the campaign is going to go. They could win the case but then find they have been given the green light to buy a club headed for the Championship.

Whipping up the fans and MPs has been a way of warning the PL that ultimately this is a war that they are going to lose and its up the PL to decide how much damage they are going to sustain.