mrmojorisin75

well personally i see moore as good enough, and i see bramble as good enough (presumably by good enough we mean backup defenders for a mid table team). keep those two, hope bramble sorts himself out, get one more CB (or two as i don't think taylor as a first teamer so young has done him any good, infact he's going backwards). We also need 4 new full backs. well this is where we fundamentally disagree then - i've had enough of the brambles and the moores of this world being injured and making mistakes when we least need it, i'd rather see a young lad given his chance any day of the week now it's your attitude that's seen bramble and dyer leech away at the club for 'x' amount of years you see i'm all for seeing the end of that, 'cause it ain't done us much good has it? looks like i should feel guilty then. Bramble is a better defender right now than taylor. would you rather we sold taylor? nice to see you'd have us starting edgar and taylor in centre backs next season. but what if edgar turns out to not cut it? we've sold bramble and moore what do we do now? its outside the transfer window, it seems our only option is to play huntington as well. whats that? he's not good enough either. well then we're kinda screwed aren't we. we haven't brought any defenders in in august because those defenders would either be at the same calibur of moore and bramble, or better than moore and bramble, and thus, better than edgar, but since you would like edgar to get first team football, but for some reason would rather we made him make the jump from reserve team football, straight into the big league, than give him a season in league one. what kind of lunacy would it be to turn a reserve team defender, into a premier league first choice centre back, without any previous first team experiance. never said edgar should start, thanks the sentence "therefore we'd need a LB, RB, 2 x CB plus the young lads named above in order to have any sort of depth" should have given you a clue to that my point is, for the umpteenth time, that lets assume that we go on some magical mystery tour in the summer and get 2 new, good, CB's then i'd rather have said 2 new guys plus taylor and edgar as my four than keeping bramble or moore to be part of that four anyone who thinks that if we signed 2 new CB's that they'd suffice for the whole season and edgar would never play for us then i'd suggest staying off the meths

well personally i see moore as good enough, and i see bramble as good enough (presumably by good enough we mean backup defenders for a mid table team). keep those two, hope bramble sorts himself out, get one more CB (or two as i don't think taylor as a first teamer so young has done him any good, infact he's going backwards). We also need 4 new full backs. well this is where we fundamentally disagree then - i've had enough of the brambles and the moores of this world being injured and making mistakes when we least need it, i'd rather see a young lad given his chance any day of the week now it's your attitude that's seen bramble and dyer leech away at the club for 'x' amount of years you see i'm all for seeing the end of that, 'cause it ain't done us much good has it? Aye its all O Nyts faults well, you know what i mean - that kind of attitude

we'll never know though will we? michael chopra couldn't "make it" on the scraps we threw him but given regular game he's doing ok isn't he? We'll have a much better idea if he's playing every week for a Championship club than sat on our bench making 4 appearances every year. granted, but see my earlier post regarding comings and goings? would you rather we keep bramble and moore as backup than give this lad a chance? i wouldn't, not for a second...i'm starting to think this is where i'm poles apart from other people and why no-ones getting what i'm on about

well personally i see moore as good enough, and i see bramble as good enough (presumably by good enough we mean backup defenders for a mid table team). keep those two, hope bramble sorts himself out, get one more CB (or two as i don't think taylor as a first teamer so young has done him any good, infact he's going backwards). We also need 4 new full backs. well this is where we fundamentally disagree then - i've had enough of the brambles and the moores of this world being injured and making mistakes when we least need it, i'd rather see a young lad given his chance any day of the week now it's your attitude that's seen bramble and dyer leech away at the club for 'x' amount of years you see i'm all for seeing the end of that, 'cause it ain't done us much good has it?

we'll never know though will we? michael chopra couldn't "make it" on the scraps we threw him but given regular game he's doing ok isn't he?

Exactly, its not as if he has been used numerous times this season either. He has played what? 3 games? He is very far done the pecking order and with any luck we will bring in defenders who are not so injury prone in the summer (Carr, Babayaro, Bramble and Moore are all very injury prone!). yeah he's down the pecking order, the point being he shouldn't be in my opinion and the opinion of a lot of others the post was also about rewarding the young players, well we're not are we? you could argue that the performances of edgar and hunt had a huge effect on our season and they've been rewarded by being dropped for consistently injured and underperforming "senior" players it's a common theme throughout the club, that performances aren't rewarded yet i somehow think people can make these leaps of logic for themselves, obviously i'm wrong

recalling depends on the terms of the loan deal as it happens, we're not always the cleverest in that respect are we? i'm not saying he should start every game and we shouldn't sign anyone else (read my next post) but i can't see the sense in letting him go anywhere when we WILL almost certainly still be short of numbers next season, the huge clearout roedebot keeps harping out will never happen so it's kids like edgar or sh!te like baba know what my choice is

right then let's imagine this scenario: most people want shot of carr, bramble, bernard, moore, baba, ramage 'cause they're not good enough, right? that leaves us with taylor, edgar, hunt, onyewu (assuming we sign him, & i don't think we will) - who have i missed? maybe somebody 'cause i'm in a hurry but i don't think so therefore we'd need a LB, RB, 2 x CB plus the young lads named above in order to have any sort of depth to the defence, am i wrong? the alternative would be to keep one/some of the people who we all consider not good enough and let edgar go out on loan....make any sense? any clearer for you?

To be honest if you can't see why sending a young defender out on loan to get some first team experience is a good idea then you need stuff spelt out to you like a child. Hopefully we will sign a few defenders in the summer and we will have the opportunity to loan Huntington and Edgar out. If we don't then we don't loan them and use them as cover which isn't ideal but would have to do. Not rocket science. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh this is my worst nightmare, what don't you get? i'm saying next season we should be PLAYING him man, PLAYING him.... in your wildest dreams do you think we'll EVER go through a season without many injuries in the squad? well then when all the replacements glenn magics up out of thin air pick up injuries we'll be playing other youth/reserve players as cover 'cause edgar will be somewhere else tell me, please, what do you see happening with our defence next season that'll mean we can afford not to have this kid in the squad? the fact is he should be in the team NOW, most people seem to think that from what i can see...

huh?

jesus - why do you have to actually spell everything out to people on this board like they're fucken children? i have a problem with it because i would rather see edgar stay and be part of the defence next season than any of the people i mentioned above (carr/baba/moore/bramble) because i believe he is better than any of them NOW now obviously if we ship all the crap we have in the defence and go and sign good, competent, fit defenders - and we'd need more than four of them by the way - then fine let edgar get a bit of experience but you all know we won't...we'll be forced to watch whichever of the above named balloons roedebot decides to keep, plus ramage who everyone on here just loves to slate...we already have thin numbers in the squad and you monkeys are happy to see it get thinner are you? tell me the plus side again please? i just don't see it - people on this board have been crying for edgar to play leftback for months and now we'll just ship him out on loan 'cause we're living in glenns football manager fantasy land where he has the ability and financial clout to overhaul the defence this summer f@cks sake man

problem is that this kid is 20 years old, was thrown in a couple of times and proved himself more than capable of playing at that level it echoes n'zogbia's treatment in us signing duff, milners in sending him out on loan and then trying to sell him to villa to buy mark "pies" viduka with the money you show me a newcastle fan who would rather start next season with carr/babayaro/moore/bramble in the defence ahead of edgar and i'll show you a fucken idiot

Dunno if this has been mentioned elsewhere but I've not seen it, so: Edgar is in the Chronicle yesterday saying Roedebot wants him to go out on loan next season 'cause he'll not get the first team opportunities at SJP. Might as well send Charlie N'Zog, Jamie Milner and Stevie 'The Boy' Taylor with him eh? Should make enough room in the squad to extend Moore's & Bramble's contract another year, bring in a couple of players the calibre of Steven Carr & Babayaro as cover for, er, Steven Carr & Babayaro. We could pick up another bargain like Duff to cover for N'Zog (perhaps Harry Kewell?) and Milner (oh I don't know, I'm running empty on facaetious by now). The Guardian football website nicknames us NUCC (Newcastle United Comedy Club) and it's not hard to see why is it? Our manager is systematically undermining and demoralising the young talent (arguably the best pool of kids after Arsenal) we've got coming through from the Academy we spent millions on setting up, whilst the chairman that appointed him and set up the Academy backs him to hilt in the face of poor results and performances!!! Honestly sometimes I think I'm dreaming this sh!t....somebody help me please.

ever since, and indeed including keegan, our managers have reached a tangible point in the job where they lose it and it is irretreivable i've seen it in them all, be it crazy team selections a la gullitt, keegan screaming into cameras, dalglish just patently not having any answer to any of the clubs problems.... so if i've seen it in all of them (and i'm seeing with roeder now in both his comments and selections) so how come after 10 years the fat man can't....it's like he purposefully chooses the wrong time to come out with his "manager going nowhere" diatribe to the press they usually get sacked not long after

glosses nicely over gilbertos somewhat patchy injury record though eh?

my fear about playing the mackems now revolves around the managers of each team regardless of the quality of player the mackems start with next season you can guarantee one thing about the derby; keane will have them ready to run through walls in order to beat us, he's astute enough to know how much credit that will give him with the fans i'm just fearful that our manager will not be able to provide the same level of motivation (this season perhaps a good example of that) - it was different when they had him out of the adams family as manager for example, we just had to turn up but that ain't gonna be the case no more....monkeys heed showed what can be done with an average team & above average motivation in the derbies

think you're about right there - anyone believing there will be a huge influx of ins and outs based on what roeder has said recently will wake up feeling terrible on 1st september 2007 believe me.....we have neither the financial clout to carry it out nor the manager with the balls to undertake what is necessary as another thread about free transfers showed we could have half a new, decent, team for signing on fees and could ship 5/6/7 of the muppets we currently have but noone at the club would have the balls or imagination to do it, simple as that

if anyone was gonna be interested in signing owen, in my opinion, it would be arsenal: they consistently fail to kill teams off and need a striker who can poach and score simple goals amidst all the glorious foorball they play they also, i feel, will spend this summer given the 'disastrous' season they've had and owen might be an option for them i don't see owen fitting into manu's system in any way, shape or form, they'll move for torres or someone else with a better all round game

But you admit that the manager has his role - "no doubt driven by SAF". Yes if a lazy bugger is a lazy bugger he is unlikely to change such a fundamental trait (in general people dont change despite what some women seem to think *cough*), but that is something you would hope would be picked up before the player is bought. That said, through direction and motivation, coaching and confidence, a good manager it seems can make a remarkable difference to a players will to win and desire to do the best they can for themselves and the team. You pick up on SAF, and I agree, he has handled Ronaldo brilliantly and he also has a knack of getting his teams to bond brillianty both on and importantly off the pitch and buy into the mentality of the club. His teams fight for each other. Mourinho also gives his players that extra nudge to succeed but maybe slightly differently from Fergie in that his players fight for him rather than the team or the club (which is one of the reasons I think they would be mad to let him go as I can see a number of his team happily following him). Keegan has to be another example closer to home, his players were by no means always the greatest but played to their absolute best and did it consistantly. He was an inspiration. So, err.... yup. I do think a good manager can make the difference in moulding a group of players into a team with a winning mentality. Something we certainly appear to lack under Roeder. ah but the question was about individuals performances not moulding/building a team i'm saying that a manager can influence it if it's there already (ronaldo and fergie for example) but when it's not there it can't be created look at giggs and lee sharpe at manu (ok one was more talented than the other, granted) - both played in the same team under the same manager but one stuck to it and lived a good lifestyle, determined to suceed...the other did not and although lee sharpe was never as talented as giggs i feel it serves as a good example of how big a factor attitude of the individual can have REGARDLESS who the manager was

i think as a general point the answer has to be no simply 'cause you can't ignore the mental aspect that have to be present in an individual performing well over an extended period for example all the technical/fitness/motivation training in the world has never and will never help kieron dyer because he's a disgrace of a man...he patently has no desire to succeed (now that he's rich) beyond paying lip service to improvement pretty much before every game and then failing to deliver it a counter example would be frank lampard and john terry who at the turn of their 20's had all the potential but a kieron dyer-like attitude to life and performances (remember the 'scandal' with the americans just after 9/11 and all the carrying on they used to do with jody morris?) but at some point they became, for want of a better word, hungry...i have no idea what it could have been but something took them from being full of potential to what they are now lampard and terry couldn't have been what they are now without the desire (again for want of a better word)....cristiano ronaldo is another - a young lad who after 2 seasons of being decorative in the PL with manu could have walked this summer and spent the next 10 years sunning himself and underperforming in spain or italy...instead something (no doubt driven by SAF) inside him changed and he's become the player he is now i'm talking about top level players here, obviously but that's what we're supposed to see ourselves as, right? so look at newcastle over the last few years and wonder where the hunger has been in our players....perhaps duff, luque, butt (early on), bramble, babayaro, carr and so on could tell us? no doubt some will believe that managers should be able to train this mental attitude into players but i'm not convinced....

Now I know certain people on the board (mentioning no names) don't like talk of takeovers 'cause we'll automatically go back to future and end up in the 1980's again with the worst board in the world . However I read with interest again today that another American tycoon is investing (in Arsenal) with the apparent intention of launching a takeover bid. I also read with interest that the Arsenal Supporters Group did not issue a statement of outcry, rather one of interest in dialogue regarding plans etc... and citing the Man U takeover as an example!! This is Arsenal remember, one of the most successful EVER English clubs who've had a great time in the last 20 years, have a legendary manager and a young team the envy of almost everyone the world over!! My point is this: the peole we're seeing coming in and taking over clubs have a proven history of running successful businesses and in the case of at least 2-3 of the Yanks they actually have proven interest in running successful sporting clubs, albeit in a different environment granted. Does anyone see these types of takeover as a threat anymore? All of them, so far, have taken ownership and shown a commitment to invest in squads/stadiums/facilities/academies in order to make their respective clubs successful long-term Surely, in terms of which clubs are left in the English Premiership that are available for takeover (assuming Arsenal do head down that route) then we must be next? Who else is there with the overall potential for a takeover than NUFC? So my question is simply does anyone have a big problem with this? Some people on here have suggested in the past the likelihood is that any new owners would be worse than the current ones rather than necessarily better....I'm afraid I just don't see it anymore. If I was Freddy Shepherd I'd be standing at the side of the proverbial takoever motorway wearing stockings, suspenders and miniskirt cocking a wink at potential new buyers 'cause let's face it he's gonna get rich(er) and the only thing that will save him from more, increasing vitriolic abuse will be to win a trophy as chairman - and that ain't gonna happen short term is it? A takeover the likes of which we've seen happen to West Ham, Man U, Villa, Liverpool and so on can surely only be win-win for everyone? (Oh apologies for the Freddy Shepherd image, loads of booze should rid that from your mind.)

The idea has a lot of strengths for sure, my thoughts are as follows (including speculation): There are options for sales that we don't have under a 4-4-2 system - for example we could let one of Duff/Dyer go and use the wages and/or fees on a specialist LB. There's scope for using Charlie N'Zogbia in that system, either in the Emre role or futher up on the left. It does present a problem for James Milner in that he is a winger, although it's possible he could also fit into the system with the strikers or just off them. Don't know about that one for sure and I wouldn't want him to leave. We'd need good cover at RB 'cause Solano would never last a season being asked to attack in the manner you describe. I think the Butt/Parker position would also need some cover 'cause what you're aking them to do will earn injuries/suspensions for sure. So assuming we have the usual club budget of 12-15m this summer and bring in a ST, CB, young RB, LB (perhaps using some Duff/Dyer cash) and a CM (perhaps Sidwell on a free as is rumoured) then I reckon it has legs aye. I've assumed Carr/Babayaro/Bramble have been punted in all that, and I disagree about Moore, I'd let him go. Does seem slighty tactically adept for Roedebot though!

one consideration people seem to have overlooked a little is that martins could/probably will be off to play for nigeria in the african nations cup in the middle of next season add that to the possibility/probability that owen might (ahem) have an injury (same for dyer), and that sibierski/ameobi and dyer are just not good enough anyway.... that kind of puts a new perspective on the idea of signing a new striker doesn't it? new priority listing for me - LB/ST/CB/CM/RB...don't want much do i?

Always thought it would look good if we put the players number on the other side, so it doesn't look unbalanced. aye that would look smart, never though of that - all the shirts now just look poor with a logo/badge in the middle and one to the side, the number would balance it quite nicely expect that never to happen then

i looked at the table yesterday and saw 37 point and i just couldn't comprehend where they'd actually come from....on reflection the season just seems to be a stumble from one defeat/draw to the next in the league