mrmojorisin75

i'm not trying to start an argument with you here pal but you're kind of missing the point i was asking a question about allardyce that you've ignored - in 10 years at a club he's not really brought any youngsters through has he? certainly not what you'd expect for that amount of time...is that what we want? i'm not saying all of the kids should automatically play but when they have played this season by and large they've held their own despite obviously having little in the way of coaching or help from senior professionals.... the fact is that whoever takes over the club will have a good group of bairns in and around the squad and i'm asking is allardyce the man to handle that? i'm not saying he is or isn't just asking for more than "With Allardyce, if a youngster is good enough, he'll get to play, but if he isn't good enough he's gone." what evidence do you have to back that up like? how do you know he never held up the development of a bairn to bring in one of his "foreign bargains" we hear so much about? maybe you know the ins and outs of his time at bolton, if so do tell... Hunt and Nolan? Two players who have come through and been significantly better than any player who has come through at newcastle in the past ten years. What players have left Bolton and gone onto greater things? - None, sure looks like Allardyce knows what he is doing. We must not also forget that we can afford to spend ten-fold more on our academy than Bolton have been able to. we could dance around like this all day - firstly i don't know about the players bolton have released when they were young and have gone onto whatever...there could be plenty but they might have slipped the net when they shouldn't have been allowed to, which is what i'm on about i'll give you nolan by the way but hunt, come on!! average at best i'm not tearing into allardyce here just stating something i thought about this morning...i mean lets say we got wenger tomorrow...which way do you think he'd go for example? i think he'd give the kids a chance in the squad before signing players to play ahead of them and chucking the bairns in during emergencies this is what worries me, not just about allardyce but about whoever might take over; the constant cycle of unquestioned spending to improve the sqaud...at NUFC it's always spend first think later for what it's worth i actually think allardyce might well be astute enough to see what he has isn't the type of manager to piss money away for the sake of it...i was just pointing out that as everyone accepts at bolton he's extremely "results-oriented" and this may be the reason for you to only be able to name 2 players who've made his first team...

this is a factor that can't be ignored anymore in the situation - leaving aside the usual mackem "we'll be in the champions league" type shit they always come out with there's an undeniable momentum around them at the moment when they come up next year they're the underdog when they play us, they could blow 50m on players but they have a media friendly chairman and a manager who is reversing everyone's expectations of him (and he talks like brian clough)....we'll be portrayed as the big bad wolf that's spent 300m or whatever and won nowt while "little sunde%l@#d" try to take on the big boys when they come to play us keane will have them running through walls to beat us, and if the fat man can't see this then we are in for some very, very bleak times if roeder is in charge for that game next season i shudder at the thought of what might happen, i really do

hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds might have an influence on your decision eh? not entirely convinced i'd walk but then roeder professes to love the club so he should walk with dignity, he'd regain a bit of respect with the fans.... look at souness, when the writing was on the wall there was only one reason he stayed and that was his payoff - put ruud gullitt into perspective for me that did, at least he had the good grace to resign and leave the money in the club he'd done so much to damage

very funny, and i agree...

i'm not trying to start an argument with you here pal but you're kind of missing the point i was asking a question about allardyce that you've ignored - in 10 years at a club he's not really brought any youngsters through has he? certainly not what you'd expect for that amount of time...is that what we want? i'm not saying all of the kids should automatically play but when they have played this season by and large they've held their own despite obviously having little in the way of coaching or help from senior professionals.... the fact is that whoever takes over the club will have a good group of bairns in and around the squad and i'm asking is allardyce the man to handle that? i'm not saying he is or isn't just asking for more than "With Allardyce, if a youngster is good enough, he'll get to play, but if he isn't good enough he's gone." what evidence do you have to back that up like? how do you know he never held up the development of a bairn to bring in one of his "foreign bargains" we hear so much about? maybe you know the ins and outs of his time at bolton, if so do tell...

very, very good assessment of the situation there dude i'm not with this "results at all costs" crap people are starting to talk about, however i'm for the appointment of allardyce for 2 reasons: 1 - i have no confidence that the fat man would be able to identify a better manager for the club, i think if he sacks roeder (which could be inevitable), the likelihood is he'll drop another bollock....in this instance if roeder goes i'd say allardyce was better the devil we know 'cause shepherd could easily decide that paul fucken jewell or chris coleman is the "fans choice" 2 - allardyce may well have the potential to change his style of play with better resources, but we'll never know that until someone gives him a shot...at the end of the day if all he does is come in and sort out fitness/scouting/physio/the wage bill/gets rid of the wankers etc... and plays bad looking football for a couple of years but gets us results, then we'll not have done too badly out of it the alternative is to either hope shepherd appoints a genius (pot luck), sticks with roeder for a full season (likely relegation) or sacks roeder after 6 games or something and we're back where we started

As a recent convert to the "get Allardyce" club, or rather the "get shot of Roeder & Allardyce looks about the best hope we have" club, I was thinking this morning about his track record at Bolton and how it might work at SJP. What concernes/interests me is the following: we have arguably one of the best crops of youngsters with potential knocking about in the league - Taylor, Milner, N'Zogbia, Krul, Edar (perhaps), Carroll (perhaps), Huntington (perhaps) and then other kids making noises who are even younger like Lua Lua, Donaldson etc... Anyway to my knowledge in a decade or so in charge of Bolton, Allardyce has hardly set the world on fire in developing youngsters - players to come through their ranks or be picked up at a young age to then make the first time are: Michael Ricketts, Nicky Hunt, Kevin Nolan, Vaz Te (perennial substitute), O'Brien perhaps....maybe there's some missing but the point stands that for a decade it's hardly great is it? We know where Allardyce's strengths lie; in getting the best out of underperforming players or players with something to prove. For me this would bring us advantages with players like Duff, Parker, Solano, Carr (if he stays), Emre (if he stays), Ameobi... The other people he might be able to work his 'magic' on should be out of the club before he even gets here (if he indeed does) such as Bramble, Moore, Onyewu, Baba, Sib etc... To me we're at a crossroads as a club in more ways than one. Talking only about playing matters I hope that whoever takes over (assuming someone does) uses the kids as the nucleus of the team rather than seeing them as 'fill-ins' for the so-called established players such as Dyer - who I failed to mention above 'cause I don't even count him as a player anymore & simply hope he somehow vanishes off the face of the earth. Roeder has used the kids this season, and received the consequent kudos from their limited success, only because he's had to. I don't think for a minute we'd have seen Edgar/Hunt play at all, Milner/Taylor I doubt would have figured as much if Roeder had had a fortune to spend on "established Premiership players". What does everyone think? Could Allardyce strike a balance he never managed at Bolton between age and experience? To me it's vital for future of the club that these youngsters are given a fair chance or we'll end up back to the days where schoolkids would rather go to Southampton than sign for us. It's especially important given we're pretty much skint due largely to paying for so-called established players year in year out. I'm not saying Allardyce is or isn't the man, what I'm saying is whoever comes in it's imperative as a CLUB we recognise what we have in terms of talent rather than what we have in terms of age/experience. Allardyce might well be the perfect man for this club if he can revitalise players like Parker, allow the likes of N'Zogbia/Carroll to play and develop, plus add some of his trademark "bargain" signings...if they all combine we could well be in business.

why do you think ferguson is continuing to chase hargreaves? he's astute enough to realise this himself and if they do get hargreaves he'll provide the side of the game they missed wednesday against milan, the side of the game that gattuso/ambrosini performed so well against them would free carrick to play more like seedorf/pirlo presumably....still expected to track back but with a remit of being more creative after how badly they were beaten by milan i'd expect ferguson to go after hargreaves with everything he's now

it's utterly appalling, there's not a single appealling feature on it for me overiding feeling about the shirt is: cheap and that's what it probably is

His approach to the medical, training and coaching aspects, is the big reason for his success at Bolton and the biggest thing he would bring to Newcastle mate. Add to that the fact that Bolton have improved all the time he has been there, and he's a "stayer", which is also what we want. He manages players who are hard to handle, and is good in front of the press. Two huge things for a manager of Newcastle as well. How many players do you see wanting to leave Bolton ? And a lot of them are temperamental players ? He is in charge, he is the boss. Brian Clough he aint, but who is ? I think he is the man for us, 3 years too late though if he comes. I'm not so sure I think Pearson is a waste of space mind, but McDermott certainly is. i actually argued like a b@stard the other day against allardyce at all costs but have thought about it for a couple of days and this post sums up how i feel all things considered scouting, new medical techniques, fitness regimes, the ability to see that kieron dyer should never captain anything other than the mary celeste, and as you rightly point out leadership are what we need bringing back to the club i might not like the guy, and have reservations about him and the style of football he has played in the past, but i'm sold get allardyce

you should write a book with insights like that Back of fag packet will be enough for punters like you. aye, how's that?

you should write a book with insights like that

no lover of spurs but sincerely hope they take the french path in negotiations: Drogba? 24m How about 10m? 24m Let's say, 14m? 24m repeat these steps 'til you get to 24m (and for essien etc...) any club with any sense and a decent player chel$ki want would take this path...i'd hope we did if they ever came for martins for example

good to see someone not trotting out doom and gloom for a change the assumption is that we need a "world class" defender and have done for some time....however all any semi-successful club really needs is competent defenders who play more games than they miss plus an attack that is dangerous and can score goals when they're needed - we've lacked both this season it's possible to make a good back four without spectacular individuals and that's what i'd like to see us aim for, that plus some tinkering with the midfield and a large part of the season with owen and shola fit we'll do alright

am i right in thinking we get paid contributions to owens wages by the fa and our own insurers until he makes a comback for the first team? not that i'm cynical, but if that is the case then i wonder how heavy the pressure is on roedebot to not play him at all? given that the season is f!cked....

or we could stay off the drugs altogther and play martins from the start and NOT take him off at all but use the two returning, unfit strikers as substitutes for each other

all the whining on here about getting shepherd out and a new board in, yet yanks aren't good enough? eh? the only alternative would be a "ray ranson style" consortium bid that would raise the cash to buy out the current owners and take on the debt we have but then would likely have to make steady progress year after year due to the fact that cash would not be as free-flowing as it would be from a huge yankee buyer we've 3 options/hopes as i see it: stick with the fat man status quo, get a new owner who's in the same cash leagues as the fat man (therefore it'll be a long haul ahead), or hope for a hugely rich yankee or someone to come in and throw cash at the place and get us challenging i'd actually be for option one or two personally, but if it were the fat man or equivalent the we'd need a change of attitude within and without the club that acknowledges we're not able to challenge the top four and likely won't be able to challenge spurs/villa or whoever else is taken over unless we think long term and take the short term hit as long as we continue down this route of thinking a top four challenge is a couple of players away then we'll continue in the hire & fire, boom & bust, doom & gloom everyone wants away from....

yup and they paid quite a lot of cash for him last summer, and he's 35+ sort of discredits the whole article really

agree with the sentiment about tevez personally...he'd bring a totally new dimension to the team we've been lacking for ages and perhaps more importantly for playing in the PL he has the work rate and isn't afraid to put his foot in we do, however, need to add some semblance of stability to the defence, particularly getting an experienced player in to coach and play with taylor et al....a sol campbell type if you will, plus we HAVE to have 2 first choice full backs next year that start more games than they miss or we'll be f1cked again if we manager to get this sidwell lad in for nowt to add midfield depth, get an experienced older defender to play with the lads plus dig up a couple of decent full backs and spaff cash on tevez then i'd be delighted there's always sales we could chuck in to make this happen such as luque/emre or whoever plus the wage bill will be lighter with the inevitable departures all in all it's possible, if we got tevez, old experienced CB, plus reasonably priced RB & LB then i'd be dancing in the streets actually heard a rumour that the fat man has taken a shine to tevez and will try to make the deal happen should the go down!! so who knows....we all know how much he likes publicity

And if we lose all 5, play s**** and look to be totally disorganised with players bickering with the manager he'd be right to sack him. my money is on roeder to be first sacked manager next season to be honest; if he has a good start he'll see out the season, anything less than say 6-9 points from the first 12 and he's gone.... As I said earlier, if the financial clout is there to support the expectations of a top manager I'd go for it, but I don't think the cash is available. As for Allardyce, he's been manager there for bloody years and yet they've still only managed to scored 44 goals this season and they've conceded more than we have. They haven't broken the 50 goals scored barrier since they came up and that's gash imo. no arguments from me, as i said earlier to someone else when does doing a good job at small club reach the point of stagnation and non-progress? at some point you stop being the underdog and have to make the next step, allardyce looks to be struggling to acheive that and won't let the underdog tag lie curbishley realised he'd reached the end, left charlton and is trying something else....perhaps allardyce feels the same but i'd be inclined to side with you and say that over the long period he's had in charge there hasn't been enough progress on view to give him our job and you're right the money ain't there either, it all went on souness, some of it still being in his bank account the pr!ck there's better managers out there than allardyce, which i why i don't get the clamour for him How can he progress with very little funding as clubs around him spends sums he could only dream of? He gets a decent transfer fee and is sitting in 5th place behind teams who in all honesty are going to be ahead of the rest for quite some time yet. if they finish 5th then all credit to them for doing it but they've fluffed the end of the season every time so far so we'll see... anyhow i'm off and don't want to ignite the sparks again...! any ideas how you feel shepherd might bring him in then? at this juncture....just seems to me there's nowhere for shepherd to go, his credibility is shot to f!ck already and this might finish him off, i feel he'll have to stick with roeder until he either makes an utter c!nt of things or succeeds like he says he will so we'll either be worse off or better off in the very near future...i don't see the status quo lasting much longer though

And if we lose all 5, play s**** and look to be totally disorganised with players bickering with the manager he'd be right to sack him. my money is on roeder to be first sacked manager next season to be honest; if he has a good start he'll see out the season, anything less than say 6-9 points from the first 12 and he's gone.... As I said earlier, if the financial clout is there to support the expectations of a top manager I'd go for it, but I don't think the cash is available. As for Allardyce, he's been manager there for bloody years and yet they've still only managed to scored 44 goals this season and they've conceded more than we have. They haven't broken the 50 goals scored barrier since they came up and that's gash imo. no arguments from me, as i said earlier to someone else when does doing a good job at small club reach the point of stagnation and non-progress? at some point you stop being the underdog and have to make the next step, allardyce looks to be struggling to acheive that and won't let the underdog tag lie curbishley realised he'd reached the end, left charlton and is trying something else....perhaps allardyce feels the same but i'd be inclined to side with you and say that over the long period he's had in charge there hasn't been enough progress on view to give him our job and you're right the money ain't there either, it all went on souness, some of it still being in his bank account the pr!ck there's better managers out there than allardyce, which i why i don't get the clamour for him

give it up boys; it's like sitting in a pub watching an argument as people get drunker and slink off leaving two p!ss heads who just can't let it go sitting slurring their words trying to get their point across!!

And if we lose all 5, play s**** and look to be totally disorganised with players bickering with the manager he'd be right to sack him. my money is on roeder to be first sacked manager next season to be honest; if he has a good start he'll see out the season, anything less than say 6-9 points from the first 12 and he's gone....

just out of interest, those people who are after allardyce how do you think shepherd would spin this one? he's endorsed roeders trademark worst injury crisis known to man, has said he's gonna back him in the transfer market to strengthen, and has just (supposedly) held a meeting to discuss targets? how's he gonna manage to sack roeder and bring allardyce in? that's what i don't see in this whole situation....now if allardyce were still available 5 games into the season then that'd be a different matter...

the fact that he played that style due to budget could be seen as a given, too obvious for words however bolton have been safe from relegation troubles for quite some time now yet they still base their game on the same style with a few minor additions such as you mention - their primary tactic is still the same however hence you being only able to name diouf and anelka as current first teamers that don't fit the "horrible" category how long do you give him to transition his style from one to the other before it defines him? the lad nappy mentioned allardyce has had time and i'd agree; he's hardly set up a production line of free, developed talent in his time has he? nor has he blown loads of cash in tripe, granted as mentioned previously steve coppell has brought reading up playing nice football on a budget so a budget is not an excuse... is allardyce a pragmatist who can adapt his style to club he's at or is he a one trick pony? this whole thing largely started today 'cause i said the later and people disagreed with me Coppell has done exactly what Pardew did last season, where are West Ham now? As people have said, Bolton have changed their style and do play good football now. Sometimes they resort to the old fashioned bully boy football against better teams because it gets them results. If you expect us to play like Arsenal every week then we will need more than a Coppell to manage it every season and not find ourselves in the s***. We will also need to spend quite a bit (again) on players who are capable of it. Allardyce plays "effective" football, he gets results, sometimes its not pretty but sometimes it is. lets shake hands and head off in the opposite direction, we'll never agree i just hope you remember all this if allardyce gets the gig....might come back to haunt us Fair enough. Thanks for debating this in an adult manner aswell. aye you too, i sometimes come across as confusing i'm aware but it's 'cause i'm always trying to hoy posts in amidst working!!! still better than working eh?