Kaizero

You mean like Ryan Giggs? Well that's my point. It depends on the loyalties of the individual, not the piece of paper. Wasn't Michael Owen in the same boat? No. Owen is ethnically English. Owen actually proves my point in that he attended school in Wales but still played for England. So Google tells me he was born in an English hospital across the border to English parents, but spent his entire childhood in Wales. If he hadn't have been talented enough to get scouted by professional scouts at a relatively young age, it's entirely conceivable that he would have spent his life in Wales. But he would never have been eligible to play for Wales, because there is no way to acquire Welsh 'citizenship' in the same way that Podolski acquired German citizenship. It's really surprising that the home nations have maintained this special dispensation from FIFA for so long. There's no five year rule in the UK I think, for British people that is, because Wales, Scotland and Norn Ireland aren't "real" countries.

That would never happen though. That's the wierdness. Because of the historic tension between the countries, it can't be anything else since they're happy to farm Brazilians to play for them.

You mean like Ryan Giggs? He was very close to his grandparents, and was apparently very traumatized when they moved when he was six, so they visited almost every weekend and school holidays. It's very understandable that he'd want to represent Wales for his grandparents even if living most of his life in Manchester. Klose was not close with anyone from his area, and lived most of his early years in France before they settled in Germany.

Holland -1 Italy Brazil -1 £50 @ 6.70 returns £335

Podolski and Klose aren't "really" Polish though. Klose moved to Germany when he was six (after also probably spending more than 50% of their time before this in France where his father was playing football.), Podolski moved when he was two. How can you expect someone moving that young to have any real feelings toward a country they've only lived in for a very small amount of their life? Also Podolski's paternal family belonged to the German minority in Upper Silesia before they moved. FIFA can't go around telling people if they have proper citizenship or not. An Algerian moving to France at the age of two, could conceivably grow up identifying himself as an Algerian rather than a Frenchman for a number of racial, religious and social reasons. A Welsh child growing up in England from the same age is probably not going to have that sort of attachment to his place of birth. But who the f*** knows. You'll never be able to draw the line and I'm not sure why you'd want to. I don't want to draw a line. I'm fine with people representing the country they want to on most occasions. (The exception are the Brazilians and so on that change their nationality only to play at a tournament, not because they feel like they are more that nationality than Brazilian.) In general, I'd probably only want to implement a rule of having to declare a nation when you're young, or not allowing the "five year rule" (most countries have five years before you can become a citizen) to apply to International football. I agree, the real problem here is the five year rule, not the fact that players can choose which of their countries they want to play for. Also the grandfather rule. It might be a good idea to change it to being able to choose either your country of birth or your parent's country What if you like Podolski, only lived two years in your birth country and the rest of your life in another? Okay, never mind actually. England wouldn't be able to call upon the services of the mighty Shola either under my rule. It's obviously crap. It could be sorted by declaring your nation of choice by 18, and being able to choose from the country of your parents, your country of birth, or your country of citizenship. Would at least make it so you can't exploit the five year rule, which is the main problem. Grandparent rule need to go as well, as you said.

Podolski and Klose aren't "really" Polish though. Klose moved to Germany when he was six (after also probably spending more than 50% of their time before this in France where his father was playing football.), Podolski moved when he was two. How can you expect someone moving that young to have any real feelings toward a country they've only lived in for a very small amount of their life? Also Podolski's paternal family belonged to the German minority in Upper Silesia before they moved. FIFA can't go around telling people if they have proper citizenship or not. An Algerian moving to France at the age of two, could conceivably grow up identifying himself as an Algerian rather than a Frenchman for a number of racial, religious and social reasons. A Welsh child growing up in England from the same age is probably not going to have that sort of attachment to his place of birth. But who the f*** knows. You'll never be able to draw the line and I'm not sure why you'd want to. I don't want to draw a line. I'm fine with people representing the country they want to on most occasions. (The exception are the Brazilians and so on that change their nationality only to play at a tournament, not because they feel like they are more that nationality than Brazilian.) In general, I'd probably only want to implement a rule of having to declare a nation when you're young, or not allowing the "five year rule" (most countries have five years before you can become a citizen) to apply to International football. I agree, the real problem here is the five year rule, not the fact that players can choose which of their countries they want to play for. Also the grandfather rule. It might be a good idea to change it to being able to choose either your country of birth or your parent's country What if you like Podolski, only lived two years in your birth country and the rest of your life in another?

Podolski and Klose aren't "really" Polish though. Klose moved to Germany when he was six (after also probably spending more than 50% of their time before this in France where his father was playing football.), Podolski moved when he was two. How can you expect someone moving that young to have any real feelings toward a country they've only lived in for a very small amount of their life? Also Podolski's paternal family belonged to the German minority in Upper Silesia before they moved. FIFA can't go around telling people if they have proper citizenship or not. An Algerian moving to France at the age of two, could conceivably grow up identifying himself as an Algerian rather than a Frenchman for a number of racial, religious and social reasons. A Welsh child growing up in England from the same age is probably not going to have that sort of attachment to his place of birth. But who the f*** knows. You'll never be able to draw the line and I'm not sure why you'd want to. I don't want to draw a line. I'm fine with people representing the country they want to on most occasions. (The exception are the Brazilians and so on that change their nationality only to play at a tournament, not because they feel like they are more that nationality than Brazilian.) In general, I'd probably only want to implement a rule of having to declare a nation when you're young, or not allowing the "five year rule" (most countries have five years before you can become a citizen) to apply to International football.

Miss Tweedy has retired though, sport.es isn't updated on WAG events.

I've actually been kind of amazed by that. I know, different situation and all, but if an ethnically Korean player ever played for Japan he'd be crucified in public opinion over here. Why would the said player care though, if he really saw himself as more Japanese than Korean then surely he'd just laugh at you?

Podolski and Klose aren't "really" Polish though. Klose moved to Germany when he was six (after also probably spending more than 50% of their time before this in France where his father was playing football.), Podolski moved when he was two. How can you expect someone moving that young to have any real feelings toward a country they've only lived in for a very small amount of their life? Also Podolski's paternal family belonged to the German minority in Upper Silesia before they moved.

No need to apologise, World Cup talk is good. I don't know much about your team tbh but from the outset you could see a hammering was on the cards. It seems Verbeek is the opposite in managerial ability and tactical attitude to Guus Hiddink. Yeah, while it was obvious before the match that this looked like it would be a hammering, it also seems fairly clear that with a better manager even this version of Australia could be doing better.

Good letter by the way.

For what? Discussing the world cup in the world cup thread? It's us who's been discussing this other shit and clouding a great thread that needs to apologize tbh.

http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,69799.0.html tbh

Some debate have already occured between http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,69768.msg2361173.html#msg2361173 and http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,69768.msg2361356.html#msg2361356

I don't know if that's a compliment or an insult. Btw I'm only 3 nations! As for representing another country, every situation is different. You have Ozil tonight for example, born in Germany to Turkish parents, and he represents Germany. Now by contrast you have Podolski and Klose who are Polish but raised in Germany from very young ages. Now some families that emigrate retain their culture, by only speaking their mother tongue at home for example. Now if you live in Germany but spend all your free time speaking Turkish or Polish then you may still feel a strong connection to that part of your heritage, so the idea of representing them is not entirely alien, when you consider that one of those parents may want you to represent their birth country, it's not quite as bad as is made out. You then have people who move to a country later in life and become bonded to that country, like Liedson, Deco, or Pepe of Portugal, if you qualify as a citizen of a country you can't really stop them representing that country, as they may feel a connection towards it. The problem you have is being sure of the validity of their claim, the best examples of that are Guerrero of Poland and some of the middle eastern nations with Brazilians in their side, it's sad that players will cheapen themselves by clinging to any nationality just to experience a major tournament, but to claim that a player is incapable of gaining a bond with a nation outside of the one in which they were born is slightly naive. Compliment, probably. I think you nailed it when you said every situation is different, which is what I said on an earlier page as to their being a large grey area for the most part. The differences in the situations means that trying to pin it down to certain rulings will be unfair on alot of people. For example ruling it on birthplace is plain wrong imo because for the likes of Klose, Podolski and even Terry Butcher for England (although that's slightly different due to few cultural/family ties to a place like Singapore) they will more than likely have no connection to the country they were born in. But then pinning it down to purely citizenship reasons opens up doors to all these Brazilians latching on to any team they can after merely living in the country a couple of years. There's also alot of losers when it comes to people going with their heritage rather than their place of birth/home - it works both ways. For example the likes of Australia, USA and Switzerland have been repeatedly screwed over by players who live their lives in the countries who welcomed them (or their parents) with open arms, educated them, gave them job oppurtunities and allowed them to become the players they are through facilities and coaching - only for them players to then ditch that country at the last moment when the manager of their 'blood' nation rings them up asking if they want a game. The Serbs/Croats/.. are often the biggest culprits when it comes to this, which while you may think is down to strong allegiances to their 'bloodline' is more than likely purely so they can have a better chance of achieving. That's why players from Albania (Behrami) who have a poorer national team will often go for the better option in their host country and players from Serbia/Croatia (Kuzmanovic, Rakitic) who have better teams will choose their heritage. It's sad in this case when it comes down to furthering careers rather than making a real emotional decision. It's definitely a very touchy subject though, and will only become moreso with the loosening of borders. Good post. The thing about the fluid borders and all the extended families of Polish/Czech and other European origin is that it really will get to the point that if they really researched it the Germans could be picking a team from the whole of Europe. That is really what I'm trying to get at.... You're really shit at getting your point across if that's what you've been trying to get at. Podolski: German striker Lukas Podolski won't be singing the national anthem on Wednesday before the much-awaited game against Poland. "It's a very special situation and quite a strange feeling when the Polish national anthem and then the German one rings out," Podolski said this week. It isn't as simple as you're trying to make out K. So? He lived a few years in Poland, and his parents are Polish. It's out of respect, doesn't necessarily make him feel any less German. Do you know Podolski personally? Why do you just want to jump to the worst possible conclusion? He didn't celebrate scoring against them either.

Someone should start a new thread to discuss this shit in tbh. It's hardly about the world cup anymore, and it's in general just cast a shadow of bad mood over one of the most entertaining threads on here in ages.

Parky's suggestion for the new German flag:

I don't know if that's a compliment or an insult. Btw I'm only 3 nations! As for representing another country, every situation is different. You have Ozil tonight for example, born in Germany to Turkish parents, and he represents Germany. Now by contrast you have Podolski and Klose who are Polish but raised in Germany from very young ages. Now some families that emigrate retain their culture, by only speaking their mother tongue at home for example. Now if you live in Germany but spend all your free time speaking Turkish or Polish then you may still feel a strong connection to that part of your heritage, so the idea of representing them is not entirely alien, when you consider that one of those parents may want you to represent their birth country, it's not quite as bad as is made out. You then have people who move to a country later in life and become bonded to that country, like Liedson, Deco, or Pepe of Portugal, if you qualify as a citizen of a country you can't really stop them representing that country, as they may feel a connection towards it. The problem you have is being sure of the validity of their claim, the best examples of that are Guerrero of Poland and some of the middle eastern nations with Brazilians in their side, it's sad that players will cheapen themselves by clinging to any nationality just to experience a major tournament, but to claim that a player is incapable of gaining a bond with a nation outside of the one in which they were born is slightly naive. Compliment, probably. I think you nailed it when you said every situation is different, which is what I said on an earlier page as to their being a large grey area for the most part. The differences in the situations means that trying to pin it down to certain rulings will be unfair on alot of people. For example ruling it on birthplace is plain wrong imo because for the likes of Klose, Podolski and even Terry Butcher for England (although that's slightly different due to few cultural/family ties to a place like Singapore) they will more than likely have no connection to the country they were born in. But then pinning it down to purely citizenship reasons opens up doors to all these Brazilians latching on to any team they can after merely living in the country a couple of years. There's also alot of losers when it comes to people going with their heritage rather than their place of birth/home - it works both ways. For example the likes of Australia, USA and Switzerland have been repeatedly screwed over by players who live their lives in the countries who welcomed them (or their parents) with open arms, educated them, gave them job oppurtunities and allowed them to become the players they are through facilities and coaching - only for them players to then ditch that country at the last moment when the manager of their 'blood' nation rings them up asking if they want a game. The Serbs/Croats/.. are often the biggest culprits when it comes to this, which while you may think is down to strong allegiances to their 'bloodline' is more than likely purely so they can have a better chance of achieving. That's why players from Albania (Behrami) who have a poorer national team will often go for the better option in their host country and players from Serbia/Croatia (Kuzmanovic, Rakitic) who have better teams will choose their heritage. It's sad in this case when it comes down to furthering careers rather than making a real emotional decision. It's definitely a very touchy subject though, and will only become moreso with the loosening of borders. Good post. The thing about the fluid borders and all the extended families of Polish/Czech and other European origin is that it really will get to the point that if they really researched it the Germans could be picking a team from the whole of Europe. That is really what I'm trying to get at.... You're really shit at getting your point across if that's what you've been trying to get at.

He's more un-Norwegian in the fact that he's a farly decent footballer tbh. You're old enough to remember the 90s, billy. You dissapoint me. And '81 too.But let's face it,you've never really been a beacon in World football.I remember Hareide,Aas,Fjortoft,Rekdal,Flo etc.I was only jesting. We've never been a beacon, no. But we were a hard team to beat under Drillo in the 90s and were always in the top 10 of the FIFA ranking, and we're still the only nation undefeated against Brazil.

The only person in the German WC squad that should not be allowed to call himself a German International is Cacau.

He's more un-Norwegian in the fact that he's a farly decent footballer tbh. You're old enough to remember the 90s, billy. You dissapoint me.

http://www.nrksport.no/contentfile/file/1.6312349!f169CropList/img650x367.jpg Oh no! A black man in a Norway jersey, we all know Norwegians are white, tall, blonde and blue eyed?! What is the world coming to?!?!

I don't know if that's a compliment or an insult. Btw I'm only 3 nations! As for representing another country, every situation is different. You have Ozil tonight for example, born in Germany to Turkish parents, and he represents Germany. Now by contrast you have Podolski and Klose who are Polish but raised in Germany from very young ages. Now some families that emigrate retain their culture, by only speaking their mother tongue at home for example. Now if you live in Germany but spend all your free time speaking Turkish or Polish then you may still feel a strong connection to that part of your heritage, so the idea of representing them is not entirely alien, when you consider that one of those parents may want you to represent their birth country, it's not quite as bad as is made out. You then have people who move to a country later in life and become bonded to that country, like Liedson, Deco, or Pepe of Portugal, if you qualify as a citizen of a country you can't really stop them representing that country, as they may feel a connection towards it. The problem you have is being sure of the validity of their claim, the best examples of that are Guerrero of Poland and some of the middle eastern nations with Brazilians in their side, it's sad that players will cheapen themselves by clinging to any nationality just to experience a major tournament, but to claim that a player is incapable of gaining a bond with a nation outside of the one in which they were born is slightly naive. More like immensely. You have to decide if you want NATIONAL SPORTS to be about nations or whether they are about CULTURAL PREFERANCES. You don't seem to be able to grasp this, maybe over your head or a victory for social engineering. I national sports to have players that want to represent that nation, and even if someone was born in another country I'd still feel happy they feel Norwegian enough to represent my country. I'd only be opposed the likes of Cacau and random Brazilians playing only because they're too shit to play for their country. Ok, so you think it is a cultural preferance? That's fine. It's more than fine. It's the way all people should think, as it'd make the world a better place. Then again, you are an island country, of course you hate everyone else.

Debate? It's just Parky being racist and throwing random insults around rather than trying to back up his viewpoint. Fail to see the racism tbh Might be the wrong word. Whatever it's called when you don't want anyone born anywhere else than your country representing your country, in whatever way. As long as they qualify through heritage it shouldn't matter where you are born.Cacau clearly has no Deutsch claret in him. As I've said, I'm against changing your nationality by the (in most countries) five year rule. I'm just not against people that have lived in a country for their entire life not being able to represent the country they want to, love, and identify themselves with because they weren't born there. Cacau and Tulio are the 2 worst offences imo. I thought you didn't mind parentage, I think Tulio is Japanese diaspora. He has a Japanese father, yeah. Japanese grandparent, no? Doesn't matter anyway, he's a cunt so he deserves all the stick he gets Anyway... You simply can't restrict a player's free choice because every individual case is different. For every Tulio or Cacau there are a lot of players who have legitimate choices to make between the country they were born in and the one they identify with. I was born in America and have American citizenship but if I was actually any good at football I would never willingly choose to play for the US national team. (no offense deuce! ) But you could be blasting out rhymes with the main man Clint Dempsey, playing soccer for NIKE.