fredbob

Disappointd with the result, thought there were a few positives to take out the game, primarily the effect of keegans approach starting to take effect, thought there was a some excellent periods of play by both teams, Boro posed no more attcking threat than we did but looked better overall because of there defensive stregth which i think we lack massively, extremely unorganized and Butt offered very little protection, O'neil was found in a lot of space because of Zog absences at times. I personally thik our weakness lie with the defensive organisation, Cacapa was good today, but he's being applied in the wrong way, he needs to play the ferdinand role and leave Taylor to play the Terry role. Was left exposed too often and fortunately for us his ability got us out some sticky situation. Butt was invisibe inthe second half, exceptionally poor, though Emre wasgood, just what we needed to be honest, kept the ball really well, cant think of too many times he gave the ball away, looked to get forward at all times and linked up play quite well. Barton wasnt great, wasnt very effectivein the wide role. Though Duff was excellent, has been very good since being back from injury, very direct, always looking to attack, links up realy really well with Zog, those 2 would be my first choice on the left flank if Zog was so defensively poor, thought Zog could cut it in the Cm but starting to think otherwise, Zog ofrers more going forward than any other left back in the premiership, Evra and Clichy are miles ahead defensivel but attacking wise Zog is superb because of the space he finds himself in. Owen was very good today, made some good runs. We didnt create many chances today again but he was usually very close to being on the end of any half chances we created. Did well for his goal. Smith just doesnt cut the mustard as a first team striker unfortunately, i think he gets picked on by refs though a bit, which is very annoying. Viduka looked like the sort of player we need, from what little i saw of him. Overall, there are big improvements to be had as an attacking unit. Looked a bit unbalanced as an attacking unit, and we dont keep pressure sustained in the opposition half which can only be done with players like Emre and Duff who retain the ball exceptaionlly and look to find space. Our major problem is our defensive organisation, Butt was very poor, Zog went missing at times, Carr was ok, but not solid enough and Taylor and Cacapa just dont look good together, i personally think Taylor is the weaker defender out the 2. Cant wait for Faye to get back. If i was Keegan, i would drop Butt, and play Barton exclusively as a DM, Beye for Carr, my big dilemma would be who to drop out of Duff, Zog and Enrique would also drop Smith, and play Viduka.

Nobby would be priceless right now, definitely miss him, but Parker, i can live without, although i was disappointed he left i felt he could of been a good squad player, he;s very similar to Barton, only Barton is probably better, i hope Barton gets converted to a DM, he's tenacious enough to do the role well.

Well? what ? He's good at saying the right thing, Kev like. Do you think he's going to say outright he didn't want Dennis Wise ? You know full well I'm on about him saying the funds were there if he wanted them. That we didn't buy anyone because he chose not to, rather than the board not backing him. Hello? NE5??

I think people are wrong about not needing a DM. We had the Parker/Emre oartnership which was only effective under souness when he tried to make Parker a DM. Under Roeder, Emre was most effective with Butt, becasue under Roeder he gave Parker a Gerrard type role. Barton is very similar to Parker. How should we use him?

Im 100% certain that they said the same about Anderson as well.

I thought that was Anderson?

not suggesting anything Dave. I find the hypocrisy of standards - which boils down completely to personalities - quite amazing. Simple fact is that I've seen this before. Unambitious board who aren't prepared to compete with the winning clubs but attempt to pacify fans with talk of "youth systems", "the future plans"....blah blah, other such bollocks. Simple fact also is that you need players the top teams want if you want to challenge them, never mind beat them. Particularly incredible is the fact that Keegan showed everybody this the first time round. I don't think Mort has the slightest clue about football and how it works. They / he [interesting one this, will it be Ashleys fault as major shareholder or Morts as chairman if Keegan fucks off or fails] will have to catch on quickly or Keegan will put them under pressure or bugger off. Quite right too if he does under those circumstances. I simply don't buy the people who are now supporting this deluded "kids policy" instead of spending money, when all we heard every other week under the old board was "splash the cash you greedy fat b******" Amazing. The sooner we are back in europe the better. And if Ashley and Mort don't realise this, for me they can both bugger off. Right. I think it's now plainly obvious that your agenda is merely to attack the new board regardless. When you say things like "people are supporting the kids policy INSTEAD of buying big players" etc.... That's a load of bollocks LM and you know it. People are saying that it will do us no harm to try and uncover a few gems in the process, until we are able to attract the Berbatovs of this world!! No one is saying the board to should aim to produce an entire first team from youth talent!!! But if one or two turn out to be useful, then why not? Amazing Shame, but I think for a long time the agenda of numerous people was simply to attack the old board whatever they did regardless. And still is, in fact. Buying up the best kids and ignoring the present is nothing other than taking a punt at gaining success on the cheap, and doesn't bode well I'm afraid. I've tried to tell you it doesn't work, because it hasn't in the past at pretty much any other club plus common sense tells you it isn't so simple as this - so if you think differently, then of course thats your opinion. I look forward to seeing your u-turn. Do you mean when we tried it with Bassedas, Cort, Bramble etc...? You could look at Craig Bellamy and Laurent Robert if you like, but it wouldn't suit your "opinion" would it. As you are unable to distinguish the difference between the board backing their managers, and where it becomes the managers responsibility to make good judgements rather than poor ones [bobby Robson too] there is really no point in attempting to explain this to you. You've got me all wrong, and you are still seemingly reluctant to read my posts properly, and answer to "facts" you pointed out. Bellamy and Robert are EXACTLY the type of signings we should be making. As we did with Ferdinand, Ginola and Batty. Quality players, in their prime, that would have walked into the top clubs at the time. I am in no way disputing that whatsoever. What I'm saying is that for some reason, we haven't gone out and bought these players in the summer (for somewhat obvious reasons being the takeover and big sam's uncertainty over his own future and the assessment the new owners felt they needed to make). We couldn't sign this type of player in January due to the arrival of a new manager, and little time left in the window. Now...would it have been better not to have signed anyone at all? I'm in no way arguing that we shouldn't go after the top players. But what I'm saying is that if for whatever reason we didn't or couldn't, then there is no harm in bringing in some youth, and taking a chance that one or two might turn out better than average. They could either be integrated into the first team, or sold at a profit. WHAT'S THE HARM IN THAT? (question in caps so you don't miss it). As for your argument, which you continue to avoid answering to.....i listed the players you said were youth players we bought the last time we went down the "kids policy" route. I responded by saying that those were NOT youth team signings, and that some were even above 20 at the time and established internationals/first team players. Please read the post carefully so you don't misinterpret what I'm saying, and give a fair response, as I'm trying to have a debate. If you choose not to, then don't waste my time or yours. I'm hoping....but I'm not holding my breath. EDIT: Oh and by the way, you conveniently ignore the FACT that we made a bid for Jonathan Woodgate this window. A big player in his prime. I've answered your post. I would also point out that we didn't buy Woodgate, unlike last time, also in the January window. Perhaps, as has been pointed out, Woodgate saw Spurs as a more progressive club than us ? How does that grab you, because they certainly weren't when we were run by the halls and Shepherd. And strangely too, they were more progressive than we were before the halls and Shepherd. Work it out for yourself, but don't let personalities or the facts I've just told you, affect your "opinion" We didn't get Woodgate because the fact is that we have gone backwards since he was here the first time. We started to go backwards because Shepherd made some abysmal decisions in appointing Souness and Roeder (still believe Big Sam was a good decision). No one disputes the fact that the Halls/Shepherd/Keegan were the ones to thank for putting Newcastle back on the map, and turning us into perennial big hitters. But when things start to sour, and people with responsibility begin to make mistakes, then they need to go. Just as one needs to sell a player once he's past it regardless of how good they were in the past. The new regime has been in for 5 minutes, and you're accusing them of lack of ambition. I think that is bullshit, and smacks of bitterness. Shepherd had been there for years, and people got on his back when they had seen enough. Believe you me, if the new board are here for a while, and begin to make mistakes year after year, and show signs of ineptitude year after year, I'll want them out too. So far they haven't had anywhere near enough time to do what they want to do, but imo they have signaled their intentions loud and clear. Obviously, action speaks louder than words, and we can only hope, wait and see. As for you answering my question regarding the players you claim were youth signings....I still can't find the answer. How on earth were Bramble, Cort, Bassedas (), O'Brien, LuaLua comparable as youth signings to Tozer, Kadar, Baheng, Zamblera and Sodeberg??? Well done, you join the ranks of those who rather absurdly think that for some reason the major shareholdes ie the Halls, stood back and allowed someone with less shares to make the major decisions all on his own. ..........blah blah blah If Mort et al were to spend big this summer would you eat your words, would that put you 100% behind them? If not why? I just dont understad who else we could of signed? If there were loads of people available and suitable then why were Portsmouth, Villa et al not after them after them? I've no words to eat. If they do, better late than never, assuming Keegan hasn't pissed off of course. Why the u-turn anyway ? You were absolutely adamant the club shouldn't be spending money a short while ago ? Fair enough, no words to eat... You read what you want to read, ive always said its a bad idea spending lots of money in Jan, by the looks of it most the other clubs feel the same way as well. Why? No ambition? Ive always said that if a player is available and essential we should go for him, i was against Allardyce getting lots of money because he hadnt done anything with his own signings which showed to me that new sigings wouldnt make any difference if the coaching and set up wasnt working. Ive also said openly at thr risk of sounding as though i was contradicitng myself that Keegan should get money, i think all new managers should get money when they first join and in the summer. Two key times in my eyes. Come next january if keegan hasnt madea success of any signings in the summer and the team i will say the same thing and that will be Keegan shouldnt get much money. In my eyes i have been completely consistent with my views, i dont understand how you can criticize the club when the likes of Villa, Port, Man C, Blackburn, Man U, Arse and many more, they have a hell of a lot more at stake than we do, (i dont think we wil get relegated). Does that show no ambition from these clubs. I dont understand what your argument is, turnover of x amount of players this january i can only think of 3 players in the entire window who would of improved us. 1 we were in for, he chose not to go for us? Money? i doubt it, Tott have a wage cap, the other 2 signed for massively superior clubs to ours.

not suggesting anything Dave. I find the hypocrisy of standards - which boils down completely to personalities - quite amazing. Simple fact is that I've seen this before. Unambitious board who aren't prepared to compete with the winning clubs but attempt to pacify fans with talk of "youth systems", "the future plans"....blah blah, other such bollocks. Simple fact also is that you need players the top teams want if you want to challenge them, never mind beat them. Particularly incredible is the fact that Keegan showed everybody this the first time round. I don't think Mort has the slightest clue about football and how it works. They / he [interesting one this, will it be Ashleys fault as major shareholder or Morts as chairman if Keegan fucks off or fails] will have to catch on quickly or Keegan will put them under pressure or bugger off. Quite right too if he does under those circumstances. I simply don't buy the people who are now supporting this deluded "kids policy" instead of spending money, when all we heard every other week under the old board was "splash the cash you greedy fat b******" Amazing. The sooner we are back in europe the better. And if Ashley and Mort don't realise this, for me they can both bugger off. Right. I think it's now plainly obvious that your agenda is merely to attack the new board regardless. When you say things like "people are supporting the kids policy INSTEAD of buying big players" etc.... That's a load of bollocks LM and you know it. People are saying that it will do us no harm to try and uncover a few gems in the process, until we are able to attract the Berbatovs of this world!! No one is saying the board to should aim to produce an entire first team from youth talent!!! But if one or two turn out to be useful, then why not? Amazing Shame, but I think for a long time the agenda of numerous people was simply to attack the old board whatever they did regardless. And still is, in fact. Buying up the best kids and ignoring the present is nothing other than taking a punt at gaining success on the cheap, and doesn't bode well I'm afraid. I've tried to tell you it doesn't work, because it hasn't in the past at pretty much any other club plus common sense tells you it isn't so simple as this - so if you think differently, then of course thats your opinion. I look forward to seeing your u-turn. Do you mean when we tried it with Bassedas, Cort, Bramble etc...? You could look at Craig Bellamy and Laurent Robert if you like, but it wouldn't suit your "opinion" would it. As you are unable to distinguish the difference between the board backing their managers, and where it becomes the managers responsibility to make good judgements rather than poor ones [bobby Robson too] there is really no point in attempting to explain this to you. You've got me all wrong, and you are still seemingly reluctant to read my posts properly, and answer to "facts" you pointed out. Bellamy and Robert are EXACTLY the type of signings we should be making. As we did with Ferdinand, Ginola and Batty. Quality players, in their prime, that would have walked into the top clubs at the time. I am in no way disputing that whatsoever. What I'm saying is that for some reason, we haven't gone out and bought these players in the summer (for somewhat obvious reasons being the takeover and big sam's uncertainty over his own future and the assessment the new owners felt they needed to make). We couldn't sign this type of player in January due to the arrival of a new manager, and little time left in the window. Now...would it have been better not to have signed anyone at all? I'm in no way arguing that we shouldn't go after the top players. But what I'm saying is that if for whatever reason we didn't or couldn't, then there is no harm in bringing in some youth, and taking a chance that one or two might turn out better than average. They could either be integrated into the first team, or sold at a profit. WHAT'S THE HARM IN THAT? (question in caps so you don't miss it). As for your argument, which you continue to avoid answering to.....i listed the players you said were youth players we bought the last time we went down the "kids policy" route. I responded by saying that those were NOT youth team signings, and that some were even above 20 at the time and established internationals/first team players. Please read the post carefully so you don't misinterpret what I'm saying, and give a fair response, as I'm trying to have a debate. If you choose not to, then don't waste my time or yours. I'm hoping....but I'm not holding my breath. EDIT: Oh and by the way, you conveniently ignore the FACT that we made a bid for Jonathan Woodgate this window. A big player in his prime. I've answered your post. I would also point out that we didn't buy Woodgate, unlike last time, also in the January window. Perhaps, as has been pointed out, Woodgate saw Spurs as a more progressive club than us ? How does that grab you, because they certainly weren't when we were run by the halls and Shepherd. And strangely too, they were more progressive than we were before the halls and Shepherd. Work it out for yourself, but don't let personalities or the facts I've just told you, affect your "opinion" We didn't get Woodgate because the fact is that we have gone backwards since he was here the first time. We started to go backwards because Shepherd made some abysmal decisions in appointing Souness and Roeder (still believe Big Sam was a good decision). No one disputes the fact that the Halls/Shepherd/Keegan were the ones to thank for putting Newcastle back on the map, and turning us into perennial big hitters. But when things start to sour, and people with responsibility begin to make mistakes, then they need to go. Just as one needs to sell a player once he's past it regardless of how good they were in the past. The new regime has been in for 5 minutes, and you're accusing them of lack of ambition. I think that is bullshit, and smacks of bitterness. Shepherd had been there for years, and people got on his back when they had seen enough. Believe you me, if the new board are here for a while, and begin to make mistakes year after year, and show signs of ineptitude year after year, I'll want them out too. So far they haven't had anywhere near enough time to do what they want to do, but imo they have signaled their intentions loud and clear. Obviously, action speaks louder than words, and we can only hope, wait and see. As for you answering my question regarding the players you claim were youth signings....I still can't find the answer. How on earth were Bramble, Cort, Bassedas (), O'Brien, LuaLua comparable as youth signings to Tozer, Kadar, Baheng, Zamblera and Sodeberg??? Well done, you join the ranks of those who rather absurdly think that for some reason the major shareholdes ie the Halls, stood back and allowed someone with less shares to make the major decisions all on his own. ..........blah blah blah If Mort et al were to spend big this summer would you eat your words, would that put you 100% behind them? If not why? I just dont understad who else we could of signed? If there were loads of people available and suitable then why were Portsmouth, Villa et al not after them after them?

Exactly, if anything it shows that the quality of player avaialable just wasnt good enough.

taylor is stronger and makes better defensive pozitional decisions than rozenhal Wheater didnt have 50,000 people hyping him up as the next john terry, then ripping him apart when a couple of years later he isnt fifa player of the year. Taylor would be twice the player he is now if he had moved on to the clubs sniffing round him. Granted s*** players around him and poor coaching hasnt helped his progress, but thats not to say he still cant be a great defender. Some realism and patience inserted into the geordie dictionary could do wonders for any player pulling on a black and white shirt. Which clubs are these like? No one decent's interested in him. He isn't s***, but he isn't that good either. Haventspurs and liverpoolbeen sniffing around, or is that speclation "created" to get anew contract?

You mean behind the front 2? I dont think he'd be mobile enough or hard working enough to do that role. just occasionally dropping off to win flick ons and trying something creative, like a through ball or two. like you say, maybe a year or 2 late for that idea though. See i dont know how good he'd be with him facing the goal from deep, at boro he was at his most dangerous with his back to the goal in the box. If we're playing "carpet football" then i personally dont think he'd flourish with the amount of possession he'd need to be effective...then again stranger things have happened.

Absolutley so would i but i assumed he was a non starter once he had Chelsea sniffing around. No point even mentioning him!

You mean behind the front 2? I dont think he'd be mobile enough or hard working enough to do that role.

Woodgate was the only player to move this window who would of been completely suitable for us and we bid for him. There is absolutley no argument to be had here. Lets put that into some context, thats 1 signing in 31 days days who would be suitable. Wheres the lack of ambition in that?

I think, and i hope we'll see more of Owen and Martins, still convinced theres a partnership in there somewhere, having said that, i think that the best partnership we've seen is actually Smith Martins off the top of my head. Still think Martins and Owen could be a monstrous partnership. Has anyone noticed that Martins gets a lot more chances than Owen or Smith. That isnt coincidence.

How many players signed in this window would of been suitable for us? The team we should be competeing with at the moment, villa, portsmouth, Blackburn, Everton, even Man City have not signed anyone really outstanding, i can only think of Woodgate, and maybe at an absolute stretch Benjani or Defoe. Its wierd that NE5 has been pretty quiet the past few days then comes out all guns blazing when the thing we thought would happen and was told would happen has happened. Im just not sure what everyone else was expecting but its what i was expecting, we could have 4 outstanding players on our books and there doesnt look lik there were any players who were on Keegans radar who we could of signed who would of been an improvement for us. I was really hoping that Keegan would of been able to get his own signings in asap but i suppose with the lack of prep and time it hasnt come good which i can accept, i wont accept no activity in the summer, and i dont imiagine that Keegan Mort and Ashley will either.

this +1 , Lets not mention the fact that he gets fouled more than any other player as well. The boy is a walking target. Will get hit hard 5-6 times a game and will never retaliate or let it effect him.

As a player he has absoltuley everything, so ability wise its hard to disagree,however his achievements will never be as good as the likes of Maradonna who carried an entire team. Ronaldo will never have to carry a team either and that might go against him, that and the fact he may never win the huge prizes like the World Cup which would also go against him.

Not quite, by 2017(or whenever it is) they wont be looking to rely on Abramovichs billions meaning thy will invest using there own money, meaning they need to be able to spend as much as they have been. The days of £70m spent in one window will disappear, that to me suggests they will rely more on there youth as well as reasonable financial power. They have brought a lot in youth. By that time, they wont have the fiancila power to spend whatever they want on whatever player, how do you think investing youth will help them out when those times come? well when you invest in top quality youth, those players have a "must be in the first team by" date on them. so you can spend all the money you want signing 16 year olds but if they aren't getting first team games by 20 they will want to move on. they'll have to keep starting over because the previous batch will move on and then the quality of your youth signings drops because the players and their advisors know which clubs are developing young stars. What are you arguing here? That Chelsea's set up didnt take long to set up, or that they are bearing fruits of there youth set up already? All i said in my original post was that it didnt take long to set up, which is contrary to what other people are saying. We have to start somewhere. And if Chelsea start to make money by selling produts of there youth set up, like arsenal do, then they're in a win win situation becasue they either have top class first teamers or very very good youth with a big price.

Might sound a bit dramatic but i honestly think he's the best player by miles the premiership has ever seen. Full stop. I think he's an absolute legend in the making and might go on to be the best player to ever put on a shirt. He's only 22 and needs to get a full set of medals, but he could quite easily be put up there with the likes of Maradonna et al.

Unformtunately, Smith has lost his way a little positioning sense wise as a striker, i put that down to him being lumped in midfield for the key part of his career. Id haveto go for Smith though, he has a precedent of being a good striker who can score a decent amount of goals, ability wise id say he was better than Ameobi as well. Ameobi is an ok striker at best, has had 8 years of decent football to figure out what he's doing and hasnt quite ever got it right.

I agree, The centre of our midfield already has way too many attacking pacy players at the moment. Definitely one for the future, but i fear we wouldnt see the best of him in the centre where he likes to play because that role is near enough dependent on a DM. If he can play out on the wing where there is less pressure then i see no problems, all the people who are "desperate" for Barnes, what about Lua Lua, he seems liek a similar type of player?

Do you think our "alarming definiciencies" are the reason we are doing badly for the entire season? Or do you, like alot of other out here think its down to the way we've used player, or more specifically the way Allardyce used his players?

emre is such an enigma, but i just think that he would be exactly what we need, the boy is never short of confidence and is always looking for the ball, the biggest problemi saw in our midfiled last night was that no players wanted to come to the ball except for Duff, i think Emre has a natural want for the ball and Emre in possession is capable of anything, i think the problem we've have we Emre is that he hasnt been playing for a team which has had a lot of possession, we have alot of possession against arsenal the first game, and we had a decent amount the second half of the second game, thats a massive rarity for any team. Its these little things which are gonna make the differences. I still think he could be a key player for us, put a competent DM behind him and with a decent amount of possission and link up play i think we will see him flourish. We;re crying our for a link up man, Emre is the mna, im sure.

Barton > Milner > Emre > Butt Milner > Emre? Milner > Butt? In the centre of midfield, how do you know?