fredbob

he might be a scumbag but he's far from being crap indeed, his behaviour seems to have improved since he went to bolton and he's vastly more talented than milner Do you think he'd be very creative as an all out winger in a 442? Perhaps not but, were he to come, I doubt that's how he'd be used. How do you think he'd be used? Surely not as a starting striker? His signing would woryy me to be fair because it would signal Allardyce's intention to implement a 433. Possbily. In a 4-3-3, aye. which would lead us to the sales of Owen and maybe Martins? Anyway, this threads getting sidetracked! Purely hypothetical. I was saying that if we were to buy him - a possibility mooted by others - he'd almost certainly be deployed in a 4-3-3. That's all.

he might be a scumbag but he's far from being crap indeed, his behaviour seems to have improved since he went to bolton and he's vastly more talented than milner Do you think he'd be very creative as an all out winger in a 442? Perhaps not but, were he to come, I doubt that's how he'd be used. How do you think he'd be used? Surely not as a starting striker? His signing would woryy me to be fair because it would signal Allardyce's intention to implement a 433. Possbily. In a 4-3-3, aye. which would lead us to the sales of Owen and maybe Martins? Anyway, this threads getting sidetracked!

There are a lot of formations which can be adapted to allow for someones techinque and pace, like the diamond formation which utilises the attacking midfieders techiniqe. 451 wont work with a slow striker etc.... A player's inherent skill and ability is dependent on which formation he plays in? Behave yourself. No, the other way round.

he might be a scumbag but he's far from being crap indeed, his behaviour seems to have improved since he went to bolton and he's vastly more talented than milner Do you think he'd be very creative as an all out winger in a 442? Perhaps not but, were he to come, I doubt that's how he'd be used. How do you think he'd be used? Surely not as a starting striker? His signing would woryy me to be fair because it would signal Allardyce's intention to implement a 433. Possbily. you honestly think there's any doubt over this? once he gets the players he wants it'll be 4-3-3 every week imo which is why it would worry me.

There are a lot of formations which can be adapted to allow for someones techinque and pace, like the diamond formation which utilises the attacking midfieders techiniqe. 451 wont work with a slow striker etc....

he might be a scumbag but he's far from being crap indeed, his behaviour seems to have improved since he went to bolton and he's vastly more talented than milner Do you think he'd be very creative as an all out winger in a 442? Perhaps not but, were he to come, I doubt that's how he'd be used. How do you think he'd be used? Surely not as a starting striker? His signing would woryy me to be fair because it would signal Allardyce's intention to implement a 433. Possbily.

he might be a scumbag but he's far from being crap indeed, his behaviour seems to have improved since he went to bolton and he's vastly more talented than milner Do you think he'd be very creative as an all out winger in a 442?

I know Martins has got a lot of votes but i think he must be seriously underrated not to get more, some big big clubs have been linked with him yet there are still some of us who dont think he's top 6 material. Surely it cant be a case of us knowing more than the said big clubs - Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Juventus, Man Utd who've all been linked with him at one opint or another? Which of those clubs have bid for him though? 'Linked' means nothing. That applies to any player btw. Fair point. Also i imagine that most of the club wanted him as a back up striker. As opposed to there main one.

Hope not, depite our respective positions and situation i cant help but feel there is far more potential with our club than Pompey.

I know Martins has got a lot of votes but i think he must be seriously underrated not to get more, some big big clubs have been linked with him yet there are still some of us who dont think he's top 6 material. Surely it cant be a case of us knowing more than the said big clubs - Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Juventus, Man Utd who've all been linked with him at one opint or another?

I always thought he was one of those up and down midfilders who dont stop running, like essien.

I wanted to put this but i thought id get shot down by the "yeh thats what ya call creativity mob". I would love to see those 2 in the midfield, noone would break them, and it would give our wingers more creative license, its good that Diarra is so mobile because he could quite easily support the attack whilst Faye sits deep gobbling up the oppositions attacks.

Similar to Essien? or similar to Makelele? I'm sure i remember reading somewhere that he considers himself a bit of an attacking midfilder, might of been one of these threads. I hope he's a Makelele type player, provide some much needed protection of the centre halves!! Means we can let the "creative" players be creative!!

Surprised by the Milner stat. thats a lot of people who think that Milner could be a good enough player to get into the top6

To be honest i dont think Taylor will make it as a big premiership defender, he has all the attributes to be an excellent defender but i think he's a bit slow up top. Not as slow as Bramble but slow. The other problem i thnk he has is that he's not sure what type of defender he should be, with Faye he needs to be the one who reads the game and gets good positioning but if he plays with anyone else he needs to be the commited defender, i dont think theres another defender in the permiership whi has that problem. Finding his feet. Give him time. I do agree with you that he has a few problems which is why I hesitate to make him a regular starter but Rich is right in that he's got loads of potential and we don't have anyone better at the club atm so he's gotta start. I'm also pretty sure that with his contract up in the air, he'll perform better now that more responsibility is placed on his shoulders. I hope so, i see big potential in him as well, but its strange that as of yet i havent a clue what type of defender he is.

To be honest i dont think Taylor will make it as a big premiership defender, he has all the attributes to be an excellent defender but i think he's a bit slow up top. Not as slow as Bramble but slow. The other problem i thnk he has is that he's not sure what type of defender he should be, with Faye he needs to be the one who reads the game and gets good positioning but if he plays with anyone else he needs to be the commited defender, i dont think theres another defender in the permiership whi has that problem.

I'm still confident he can play a part here, he has shown far too much class at times to be written off already. There is a danger of the "Boumsong" about him, who also looked solid to begin with before he/we destroyed his confidence, but hopefully if he's used more sparingly then we should start seeing him thrive again. I don't think he'll be a regular starter, but I don't doubt he's a good influence to have at the club and that he can only help the likes of Taylor to improve. He probably doesn't have the physical presence, like Rozehnal, to ever be really top-drawer for us, but he should be good enough when necessary. If you consider Taylor/Faye as our first-choice pair, which I would assume plenty do, then Rozehnal/Cacapa look like very strong back-up when you consider the players we've had to play there in the recent past. They should only get better as they adjust to the country/game, as well. Fair assessment, i happen to think that theres no way that he'll be Boumsong, he's shown a lot of bottle already after the Portsmouth game, he came back like a man who knows what he's capable of. He hasnt really had too many bad games, its just a case that he may have one glaring weakness (being dominated by big strikers) to his game which will always hinder him. Still a very good player.

How does everyone feel about Cacapa? He's seemed to fallen down the rankings of late.

Ok Ok, i cant help myself, he says some ridiculous stuff sometime. I try my hardest not to bite but i cant help proving him wrong, its my nature to be argumentitive, im a training lawyer. Even you bite sometimes....

Considering three of those were brought in by Allardyce (and they weren't exactly cheap), do you think trusting him with more money will see him change targets to something more exotic? General question, not really owt to do with the thread as such. I know you've advocated giving him time. Would of been my secondpoint to Chez! Dave, i'm not sure, thats the biggest question facing the club (as i said after City ). Fruitbat, my point was that the midfielders we have dont have the attributes to match the attributes of our strikers. Both departments are lacking and neither can make up for the inadequacies of the other. So, yes, i think the players are just about playing to their potential which is why we arent any higher up the league. Blame last summer if you want. I tend not to over analyse things so forgive me for not understanding this, but why exactly do we have the wrong kind of strikers for our midfield? We've got tall ones, short one's, fat one's, skinny one's, strong one's and weak one's. Is it the midfield that's wrong? What attributes do the midfield lack when playing at potential. Duff in Blackburn form is an excellent provider and occasssional scorer. As are Milner, Smith and Zoggy on Villa, Leeds and previous form. Butt, Geremi, and Faye are solid as a rock on Man U, Chelsea and current form, while Barton always looked a classy* box to box player at Man City. Sounds like British Rail excuse like the wrong kind of snow on the track. *EDIT: Of course by classy I mean in a working class scumbag, thugish charver, blood and guts way. Not sure if you actually seriously asking me or not.... Viduka and Owen are immobile and slow, Martins is unpredictable. The midfield has no pace or creativity. You can have one or the other but both at the same time means neither makes up for the inadequacies of the other. If the midfield had class and pace, they would pull defenders out of position, allowing the strikers to find space. If the attack had more class and a lot of pace, a hardworking midfield would be able to support them. The lack of mobility up front (and the spatial spackaness of Martins) places greater emphasis on creativity behind them. So you dont think there would be a single manager in the world who could put us in a better position with the squad we have at present? 9 players currently on the books have been brought to the club by Allardyce, with the deals sanctioned by Mort/Ashley. If the vast majority of them aren't good enough, who are you going to blame. Before you reply, consider the transfer fees involved and the competition we had to sign most of them ........ Still. I'm sure that you appear to be happy with the season so far. The books are balanced, and we have a long term "plan". Shame every other club also has a long term "plan", part of which will be to have a better "plan" than our "plan". mate you shouldnt keep putting plan in inverted commas like that, it makes you look mental, planning in business is always beneficial, doesn't matter who's in charge Well, I think people who infer that "plans" bring automatic success in football, are pretty stupid. It makes you look like you are saying the only teams who have "plans" are those who win the league, FA Cup and League Cup. Clearly bollocks, as you clearly had a flawed "plan" for not winning one of these trophies. Thats one hell of a lot of teams without a "plan" by the way. ok, and what about what i actually said? it's quite clear to me that if you qualify for europe more than every team bar 4 over the course of a decade, you must have some sort of "plan" which is a better "plan" than most of your rivals "plans". I realise you won't agree this because you have some sort of silly agenda with the fat b******, but hey, thats your prerogative. Ignore the facts as long as you like, its your problem. i'm gonna try not get dragged into this again,but, i was just pointing something out, doing that sort of stuff very definitely makes you look mental and very definitely makes YOU look like the one with the agenda i'm not disagreeing with you on the first part, credit where credit's due and regarding it being my problem, ironic, considering you've taken it on yourself to be the one true voice in defense of one man, it would seem that you continually make people 'ignoring the facts', your problem to sum up pretty much my last year of posting, it seems you have a policy towards people that suggests if they've done something right they cant do much wrong, and its so out of sync with reality that you end up fighting with everyone on here, anyway i still think you're good craic, keep up the good work not "defending" anyone, only pointing out misrepresentations and a correct perspective. Anyway, time for some shut eye Night night sleeping beauty, good to see you go when the going gets tough. Good business sense, get out while you can etc...

Considering three of those were brought in by Allardyce (and they weren't exactly cheap), do you think trusting him with more money will see him change targets to something more exotic? General question, not really owt to do with the thread as such. I know you've advocated giving him time. Would of been my secondpoint to Chez! Dave, i'm not sure, thats the biggest question facing the club (as i said after City ). Fruitbat, my point was that the midfielders we have dont have the attributes to match the attributes of our strikers. Both departments are lacking and neither can make up for the inadequacies of the other. So, yes, i think the players are just about playing to their potential which is why we arent any higher up the league. Blame last summer if you want. I tend not to over analyse things so forgive me for not understanding this, but why exactly do we have the wrong kind of strikers for our midfield? We've got tall ones, short one's, fat one's, skinny one's, strong one's and weak one's. Is it the midfield that's wrong? What attributes do the midfield lack when playing at potential. Duff in Blackburn form is an excellent provider and occasssional scorer. As are Milner, Smith and Zoggy on Villa, Leeds and previous form. Butt, Geremi, and Faye are solid as a rock on Man U, Chelsea and current form, while Barton always looked a classy* box to box player at Man City. Sounds like British Rail excuse like the wrong kind of snow on the track. *EDIT: Of course by classy I mean in a working class scumbag, thugish charver, blood and guts way. Not sure if you actually seriously asking me or not.... Viduka and Owen are immobile and slow, Martins is unpredictable. The midfield has no pace or creativity. You can have one or the other but both at the same time means neither makes up for the inadequacies of the other. If the midfield had class and pace, they would pull defenders out of position, allowing the strikers to find space. If the attack had more class and a lot of pace, a hardworking midfield would be able to support them. The lack of mobility up front (and the spatial spackaness of Martins) places greater emphasis on creativity behind them. So you dont think there would be a single manager in the world who could put us in a better position with the squad we have at present? 9 players currently on the books have been brought to the club by Allardyce, with the deals sanctioned by Mort/Ashley. If the vast majority of them aren't good enough, who are you going to blame. Before you reply, consider the transfer fees involved and the competition we had to sign most of them ........ Still. I'm sure that you appear to be happy with the season so far. The books are balanced, and we have a long term "plan". Shame every other club also has a long term "plan", part of which will be to have a better "plan" than our "plan". mate you shouldnt keep putting plan in inverted commas like that, it makes you look mental, planning in business is always beneficial, doesn't matter who's in charge Well, I think people who infer that "plans" bring automatic success in football, are pretty stupid. It makes you look like you are saying the only teams who have "plans" are those who win the league, FA Cup and League Cup. Clearly bollocks, as you clearly had a flawed "plan" for not winning one of these trophies. Thats one hell of a lot of teams without a "plan" by the way. ok, and what about what i actually said? it's quite clear to me that if you qualify for europe more than every team bar 4 over the course of a decade, you must have some sort of "plan" which is a better "plan" than most of your rivals "plans". I realise you won't agree this because you have some sort of silly agenda with the fat b******, but hey, thats your prerogative. Ignore the facts as long as you like, its your problem. Theres that top 4 stat again!! Ha ha, i noticed you stopped posting after i pointed out the fallacies of this stat in the other post. In fact, you proved the fallacies of the stat for me. Classic. Well. You said you would prove it wasn't true, then admitted you couldn't. Now you're attempting it again ? Are you pissed ? Haha, classic, you're really falling on your arse here. Again find me where i said i would prove it wasnt true. This was last night man. How could you "forget"?? I actually said i would put some perspective on it. Ok then, here you go http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48368.msg1136817#msg1136817 "If you want me to blow your "top 4 stat" out the water i can do if you'd like. Upto you?" "blow your top 4 stat out the water" doesnt mean "disprove your stat" It means that i would be able to put enough perspective on the stat in order to render it pretty useless. Glad you went to all that effort beuase it just shows how badly you read things.

Ok mate, heres a bone for you. In future attack opinions of mine when i have actually said it.

Considering three of those were brought in by Allardyce (and they weren't exactly cheap), do you think trusting him with more money will see him change targets to something more exotic? General question, not really owt to do with the thread as such. I know you've advocated giving him time. Would of been my secondpoint to Chez! Dave, i'm not sure, thats the biggest question facing the club (as i said after City ). Fruitbat, my point was that the midfielders we have dont have the attributes to match the attributes of our strikers. Both departments are lacking and neither can make up for the inadequacies of the other. So, yes, i think the players are just about playing to their potential which is why we arent any higher up the league. Blame last summer if you want. I tend not to over analyse things so forgive me for not understanding this, but why exactly do we have the wrong kind of strikers for our midfield? We've got tall ones, short one's, fat one's, skinny one's, strong one's and weak one's. Is it the midfield that's wrong? What attributes do the midfield lack when playing at potential. Duff in Blackburn form is an excellent provider and occasssional scorer. As are Milner, Smith and Zoggy on Villa, Leeds and previous form. Butt, Geremi, and Faye are solid as a rock on Man U, Chelsea and current form, while Barton always looked a classy* box to box player at Man City. Sounds like British Rail excuse like the wrong kind of snow on the track. *EDIT: Of course by classy I mean in a working class scumbag, thugish charver, blood and guts way. Not sure if you actually seriously asking me or not.... Viduka and Owen are immobile and slow, Martins is unpredictable. The midfield has no pace or creativity. You can have one or the other but both at the same time means neither makes up for the inadequacies of the other. If the midfield had class and pace, they would pull defenders out of position, allowing the strikers to find space. If the attack had more class and a lot of pace, a hardworking midfield would be able to support them. The lack of mobility up front (and the spatial spackaness of Martins) places greater emphasis on creativity behind them. So you dont think there would be a single manager in the world who could put us in a better position with the squad we have at present? 9 players currently on the books have been brought to the club by Allardyce, with the deals sanctioned by Mort/Ashley. If the vast majority of them aren't good enough, who are you going to blame. Before you reply, consider the transfer fees involved and the competition we had to sign most of them ........ Still. I'm sure that you appear to be happy with the season so far. The books are balanced, and we have a long term "plan". Shame every other club also has a long term "plan", part of which will be to have a better "plan" than our "plan". mate you shouldnt keep putting plan in inverted commas like that, it makes you look mental, planning in business is always beneficial, doesn't matter who's in charge Well, I think people who infer that "plans" bring automatic success in football, are pretty stupid. It makes you look like you are saying the only teams who have "plans" are those who win the league, FA Cup and League Cup. Clearly bollocks, as you clearly had a flawed "plan" for not winning one of these trophies. Thats one hell of a lot of teams without a "plan" by the way. ok, and what about what i actually said? it's quite clear to me that if you qualify for europe more than every team bar 4 over the course of a decade, you must have some sort of "plan" which is a better "plan" than most of your rivals "plans". I realise you won't agree this because you have some sort of silly agenda with the fat b******, but hey, thats your prerogative. Ignore the facts as long as you like, its your problem. Theres that top 4 stat again!! Ha ha, i noticed you stopped posting after i pointed out the fallacies of this stat in the other post. In fact, you proved the fallacies of the stat for me. Classic. Well. You said you would prove it wasn't true, then admitted you couldn't. Now you're attempting it again ? Are you pissed ? Haha, classic, you're really falling on your arse here. Again find me where i said i would prove it wasnt true. This was last night man. How could you "forget"?? I actually said i would put some perspective on it.

Considering three of those were brought in by Allardyce (and they weren't exactly cheap), do you think trusting him with more money will see him change targets to something more exotic? General question, not really owt to do with the thread as such. I know you've advocated giving him time. Would of been my secondpoint to Chez! Dave, i'm not sure, thats the biggest question facing the club (as i said after City ). Fruitbat, my point was that the midfielders we have dont have the attributes to match the attributes of our strikers. Both departments are lacking and neither can make up for the inadequacies of the other. So, yes, i think the players are just about playing to their potential which is why we arent any higher up the league. Blame last summer if you want. I tend not to over analyse things so forgive me for not understanding this, but why exactly do we have the wrong kind of strikers for our midfield? We've got tall ones, short one's, fat one's, skinny one's, strong one's and weak one's. Is it the midfield that's wrong? What attributes do the midfield lack when playing at potential. Duff in Blackburn form is an excellent provider and occasssional scorer. As are Milner, Smith and Zoggy on Villa, Leeds and previous form. Butt, Geremi, and Faye are solid as a rock on Man U, Chelsea and current form, while Barton always looked a classy* box to box player at Man City. Sounds like British Rail excuse like the wrong kind of snow on the track. *EDIT: Of course by classy I mean in a working class scumbag, thugish charver, blood and guts way. Not sure if you actually seriously asking me or not.... Viduka and Owen are immobile and slow, Martins is unpredictable. The midfield has no pace or creativity. You can have one or the other but both at the same time means neither makes up for the inadequacies of the other. If the midfield had class and pace, they would pull defenders out of position, allowing the strikers to find space. If the attack had more class and a lot of pace, a hardworking midfield would be able to support them. The lack of mobility up front (and the spatial spackaness of Martins) places greater emphasis on creativity behind them. So you dont think there would be a single manager in the world who could put us in a better position with the squad we have at present? 9 players currently on the books have been brought to the club by Allardyce, with the deals sanctioned by Mort/Ashley. If the vast majority of them aren't good enough, who are you going to blame. Before you reply, consider the transfer fees involved and the competition we had to sign most of them ........ Still. I'm sure that you appear to be happy with the season so far. The books are balanced, and we have a long term "plan". Shame every other club also has a long term "plan", part of which will be to have a better "plan" than our "plan". mate you shouldnt keep putting plan in inverted commas like that, it makes you look mental, planning in business is always beneficial, doesn't matter who's in charge Well, I think people who infer that "plans" bring automatic success in football, are pretty stupid. It makes you look like you are saying the only teams who have "plans" are those who win the league, FA Cup and League Cup. Clearly bollocks, as you clearly had a flawed "plan" for not winning one of these trophies. Thats one hell of a lot of teams without a "plan" by the way. Straw man argument.... Haha it gets better and better. Is it difficult having a 2 way conversation with yourself. you don't understand very much do you I tell you what, if you find me one person who has said that "plans bring automatic success" ill admit that what you're saying is 100% correct. If you cant, then how far and for how long can you actually stretch these "facts" before you finally see you are actually having an argument with your own imagination. Well, in that case, stop harping on about "plans" then and accept that it is a matter of us finding the new Alex Ferguson [and backing him with serious money] before anyone else then. Which I'm sure will be easy, and grossly incompetent on our part if someone else finds him first. Haha, "harping on". Rich, very rich. Again, i mentioned it once as part of a bigger argument. Again, see what you wanna see.

Considering three of those were brought in by Allardyce (and they weren't exactly cheap), do you think trusting him with more money will see him change targets to something more exotic? General question, not really owt to do with the thread as such. I know you've advocated giving him time. Would of been my secondpoint to Chez! Dave, i'm not sure, thats the biggest question facing the club (as i said after City ). Fruitbat, my point was that the midfielders we have dont have the attributes to match the attributes of our strikers. Both departments are lacking and neither can make up for the inadequacies of the other. So, yes, i think the players are just about playing to their potential which is why we arent any higher up the league. Blame last summer if you want. I tend not to over analyse things so forgive me for not understanding this, but why exactly do we have the wrong kind of strikers for our midfield? We've got tall ones, short one's, fat one's, skinny one's, strong one's and weak one's. Is it the midfield that's wrong? What attributes do the midfield lack when playing at potential. Duff in Blackburn form is an excellent provider and occasssional scorer. As are Milner, Smith and Zoggy on Villa, Leeds and previous form. Butt, Geremi, and Faye are solid as a rock on Man U, Chelsea and current form, while Barton always looked a classy* box to box player at Man City. Sounds like British Rail excuse like the wrong kind of snow on the track. *EDIT: Of course by classy I mean in a working class scumbag, thugish charver, blood and guts way. Not sure if you actually seriously asking me or not.... Viduka and Owen are immobile and slow, Martins is unpredictable. The midfield has no pace or creativity. You can have one or the other but both at the same time means neither makes up for the inadequacies of the other. If the midfield had class and pace, they would pull defenders out of position, allowing the strikers to find space. If the attack had more class and a lot of pace, a hardworking midfield would be able to support them. The lack of mobility up front (and the spatial spackaness of Martins) places greater emphasis on creativity behind them. So you dont think there would be a single manager in the world who could put us in a better position with the squad we have at present? 9 players currently on the books have been brought to the club by Allardyce, with the deals sanctioned by Mort/Ashley. If the vast majority of them aren't good enough, who are you going to blame. Before you reply, consider the transfer fees involved and the competition we had to sign most of them ........ Still. I'm sure that you appear to be happy with the season so far. The books are balanced, and we have a long term "plan". Shame every other club also has a long term "plan", part of which will be to have a better "plan" than our "plan". mate you shouldnt keep putting plan in inverted commas like that, it makes you look mental, planning in business is always beneficial, doesn't matter who's in charge Well, I think people who infer that "plans" bring automatic success in football, are pretty stupid. It makes you look like you are saying the only teams who have "plans" are those who win the league, FA Cup and League Cup. Clearly bollocks, as you clearly had a flawed "plan" for not winning one of these trophies. Thats one hell of a lot of teams without a "plan" by the way. ok, and what about what i actually said? it's quite clear to me that if you qualify for europe more than every team bar 4 over the course of a decade, you must have some sort of "plan" which is a better "plan" than most of your rivals "plans". I realise you won't agree this because you have some sort of silly agenda with the fat b******, but hey, thats your prerogative. Ignore the facts as long as you like, its your problem. Theres that top 4 stat again!! Ha ha, i noticed you stopped posting after i pointed out the fallacies of this stat in the other post. In fact, you proved the fallacies of the stat for me. Classic.